Lane splitting/filtering: the legal and commonsense answers

[swbarnett]

Sometimes I get exposed to car drivers deliberately trying to scare/injure me. I can only assume it because other bikers have wound them up sufficiently :wait:
Or they're just petty minded idiots with small egos, jealous of the progress you're making, and a bike is an easy target.

[PrincessBandit]

Please keep on topic people. For those indulging in your weird shit foreplay with each other, get a room. The only stuff I've moved to PD has been the personal shit slinging, and at least one of you has had an infraction from me. The topic, for those who are v e r y s l o w or retarded, is filtering and lane splitting and issues arising from these activities; not lovers spats being played out in a public forum.



So Mom, it's back to PD for shits'n'giggles...

[arcane12]

I shouldn't be surprised by some of the attitudes in here.

I was brought up to respect other peoples shit. Thats the way it stays. That seems to be a quality that is sadly missing from many of late.

And leaving stuff the way you found it! If that gate was closed, it should be closed after you go through it! (Related to lane-splitting on the 'Don't be a dick' maxim)

A couple more noob questions about lane splitting: Do you also undertake/overtake on the outsides of the traffic? Or is that too hard due to left turning traffic being dangerous and barriers on the right? Also, are you able to keep within the lane when you split or do you stradle lanes (I would assume stradle)? Does that make it less legal (the whole overtake without indicating by staying inside the lane markings)?

[Ocean1]

And leaving stuff the way you found it! If that gate was closed, it should be closed after you go through it! (Related to lane-splitting on the 'Don't be a dick' maxim)

A couple more noob questions about lane splitting: Do you also undertake/overtake on the outsides of the traffic? Or is that too hard due to left turning traffic being dangerous and barriers on the right? Also, are you able to keep within the lane when you split or do you stradle lanes (I would assume stradle)? Does that make it less legal (the whole overtake without indicating by staying inside the lane markings)?

You're supposed to overtake only on the right. If you transgress over the rh lane marker when overtaking then technically you're overtaking vehicles in the rh lane to their left. In practice you sometimes get squeezed over the line, but if it happens too often you could probably be asking yourself if you're putting yourself at the mercy of those you're passing too much.

[Madness]

So was I. And I still do.

No you don't.


If a car driver fucks up and starts changing lanes on me but returns to where they were when they hear my horn I don't sweat it. No harm, no foul. If they keep coming, however, that's a different matter.

Are you referring to instances when you're splitting at the time or occupying a lane normally?


I'm not expecting cars to move over or even claiming a right to a space in "their" lane.

So you concede that a vehicle occupying a lane in a normal fashion holds a certain "ownership" of that lane, if not in technically so according to your understanding of the law?


Or they're just petty minded idiots with small egos, jealous of the progress you're making, and a bike is an easy target.

It would be interesting to see just how many of these petty minded idiots with small egos and full of jealousy are actually previous victims of cocksuckers on motorcycles who can't split properly.


For those indulging in your weird shit foreplay with each other, get a room. The only stuff I've moved to PD has been the personal shit slinging, and at least one of you has had an infraction from me. The topic, for those who are v e r y s l o w or retarded, is filtering and lane splitting and issues arising from these activities; not lovers spats being played out in a public forum.

I think the moderation of this thread so far has been excellent. Is Gremlin on holiday?

[PrincessBandit]

I think the moderation of this thread so far has been excellent. Is Gremlin on holiday?

You're welcome.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Forget the wing mirrors. If you follow me I clear them all out of the way for you pussies so you don't have to worry your little heads about them.

279135

[swbarnett]

No you don't.
You're not qualified to judge that. You don't know me well enough. The interweb is a very poor medium for getting to know someone.


Are you referring to instances when you're splitting at the time or occupying a lane normally?
When occupying a lane normally. If it happens while splitting the I misjudged the split.


So you concede that a vehicle occupying a lane in a normal fashion holds a certain "ownership" of that lane, if not in technically so according to your understanding of the law?
A car driver has the right to plant themselves anywhere in the lane as long as it's not being shared at the time. So, in essence, yes.


It would be interesting to see just how many of these petty minded idiots with small egos and full of jealousy are actually previous victims of cocksuckers on motorcycles who can't split properly.
Indeed. I suspect you may find that a fair number of them are. However, any resonable person doesn't tar a whole group based on the actions of a few.

[Madness]

You're not qualified to judge that. You don't know me well enough. The interweb is a very poor medium for getting to know someone.

This...

Hardly a high price on their part. I don't think they even noticed (although I can't be sure of this).

So you're happy to collide with the vehicles of others on the basis that in your opinion the physical damage is insignificant (although you can't be sure of this) yet you still think you respect other peoples shit? :wacko:


Indeed. I suspect you may find that a fair number of them are. However, any resonable person doesn't tar a whole group based on the actions of a few.

Pot, meet Kettle.

[Katman]

However, any resonable person doesn't tar a whole group based on the actions of a few.

However wrong it may be to do so, it happens.

The fact that it shouldn't is no comfort to the motorcyclist who ends up paying the price for another motorcyclist's ignorance.

[Devil]

A couple more noob questions about lane splitting: Do you also undertake/overtake on the outsides of the traffic? Or is that too hard due to left turning traffic being dangerous and barriers on the right? Also, are you able to keep within the lane when you split or do you stradle lanes (I would assume stradle)? Does that make it less legal (the whole overtake without indicating by staying inside the lane markings)?

You're not allowed to overtake on the left (undertake) unless the traffic is stopped, or in the process of turning right. The only other exception is on a multi laned road and you actually use a lane to pass someone on the left.
Apart from being illegal, passing on the left is just dumb due to the issues you mention.
Always go around the right where possible. Yes try and stay on the right of the vehicle that you're overtaking, you should also be indicating that you're overtaking. Sometimes it's just not possible without crossing over the lane line - this could always be interpreted by the cops as undertaking (if there's another car on your right) or an unsafe passing manouvre.
Just beware that different cops can interpret differently.

Basically, try and overtake on the right. Stay calm, keep your course as straight and predictable as possible (dont weave all over the place) and do it at a fair and reasonable speed so that you remain easily visible to other road users and you dont "come out of nowhere". Dont get me started on the impossibilities of that, but if you're going too fast the chance of getting cleaned up by someone who didn't see you increases rapidly.

[superjackal]

You're not allowed to overtake on the left (undertake) unless the traffic is stopped, or in the process of turning right. The only other exception is on a multi laned road and you actually use a lane to pass someone on the left.
Apart from being illegal, passing on the left is just dumb due to the issues you mention.
Always go around the right where possible. Yes try and stay on the right of the vehicle that you're overtaking, you should also be indicating that you're overtaking. Sometimes it's just not possible without crossing over the lane line - this could always be interpreted by the cops as undertaking (if there's another car on your right) or an unsafe passing manouvre.
Just beware that different cops can interpret differently.

Basically, try and overtake on the right. Stay calm, keep your course as straight and predictable as possible (dont weave all over the place) and do it at a fair and reasonable speed so that you remain easily visible to other road users and you dont "come out of nowhere". Dont get me started on the impossibilities of that, but if you're going too fast the chance of getting cleaned up by someone who didn't see you increases rapidly.

Appreciate what you're trying to say. IMHO, do what you need to - left/right. You pays your money and you takes your chances. My golden rule is not to do do anything that I think will upset people. It's often safer to pass on the left and "safety" is paramount.

Then again, some people just have bad days and will try and upset you. On Tuesday I had a classic situation. Guy going slow in right lane, sees me accelerate to undertake, speeds up to cut me off. It was an epic duel between GN and Corolla... He followed me for 2 kms making that flicking gesture under the chin. I made the universal "chillax" sign. The great thing about bikes is you can just flow on while cagers get stuck.

We aren't restricted like they are but it pisses some of them off, as they think we should wait in line like everyone else. I can understand that, but it's just an education gap for them. And, as long as the majority of people don't hop onto a motorcycle, this is a knowledge gap that will NEVER be closed.

What I really like is when cars move over to make room for you to split. They deserve a double thumbs up. :2thumbsup

[swbarnett]

So you're happy to collide with the vehicles of others on the basis that in your opinion the physical damage is insignificant (although you can't be sure of this) yet you still think you respect other peoples shit? :wacko:
As a pedestrian "splitting" between two parked cars to cross the road I may sometimes stumble and put a hand on one or other car. Are you suggesting that this warrants a note on the windscreen?

Your use of the word "collide", while technically correct, also puts this whole discussion in the wrong context. If I collided with another vehicle I would ceratinly go out of my way to speak with the owner of that vehicle and make whatever apologies and recompense is necessary to rectify any damage. Simply clipping a mirror in a way that leaves no physical evidence is quite different.


Pot, meet Kettle.
I think you'll have to explain ths one in a bit more detail. I can't see the reference.


However wrong it may be to do so, it happens.

The fact that it shouldn't is no comfort to the motorcyclist who ends up paying the price for another motorcyclist's ignorance.
Agreed. But, even so, you can't put the blame for later actions of the driver on the previous mirror-clipping motorcyclists.

[ducatilover]

I'm pretty sure you get 7 years bad luck for breaking a mirror don't you?

[Laava]

I'm pretty sure you get 7 years bad luck for breaking a mirror don't you?

The car or the bike?

[Monkfish]

This thread had me, :killingme then, :not: but as I read the :argue: and :girlfight: it got a bit :mad: and I was like :shit:, although some people were just :Pokey: it seemed like others were :tugger:. now I am like :corn: and :rockon: please continue, it is simply. :lol:

[CookMySock]

I got my bar hooked under a door handle once, while mid-corner. Cager thought it might be amusing to lane share his car while in a roundabout, straightening out the corners a little bit and clipping white lines - specifically, the white line that I was on. Consequently, I thought it might be amusing to swing my boot at his fucking drivers door, since he scuffed said boot with his wheel trim.

In all fairness, I shouldn't have been there. We're not allowed to lane-share over intersections for good reason, and this is it. I've also exchanged horns and finger with another right-turning driver while I was overtaking a line of traffic turning left. It was easy to figure out why this was a bad idea too!

Think ahead, keep your speed-differential down, and accept it when you've learned a little lesson. :pinch:

[Maha]

NOW it will get even better.....grab a seat...;)

[Swoop]

Does this thread's awsomeness never end?:clap:

[The End]

Am I the only one who splits and tries to weave in between the cats eyes and around cars? Makes for a fun ride home from work. :headbang:






[/sarcasm]

[bluninja]

You want real fun, ride over every cats eye in the wet whilst constantly closing and opening the throttle :cool:

[imac]

Am I the only one who splits and tries to weave in between the cats eyes and around cars? Makes for a fun ride home from work. :headbang:


I hope you get a knee down at the same time

[Voltaire]

I was too fwightened to lanesplit today after reading all the negativity mannn as the cager mirrors seemed to reach out to me....

How many cats eyes can you slaylom without hitting them....I did 10 today....

[Mom]

You want real fun, ride over every cats eye in the wet whilst constantly closing and opening the throttle :cool:

I tried that on my GN.

FFS! it was totally out of control with its bog standard plastic tyres on it :pinch:

Much more fun was compression locking the rear wheel turning into the driveway :banana:

I never clipped a car though so all is good :clap:

[Zedder]

I was too fwightened to lanesplit today after reading all the negativity mannn as the cager mirrors seemed to reach out to me....

How many cats eyes can you slaylom without hitting them....I did 10 today....

That's heavy mannn. Lentils anyone?

[Kittyhawk]

The guy in front of me yesterday on the southern motorway (riding a gixer thou) kept hesitating and the gaps got narrower, then he shook his head, I had two other bikers up my rear all of us lane splitting, when I got the chance I over took him and left everyone behind....

Have no idea what ran through their heads but they couldnt catch, I do it on a regular basis and always use prepherial vision.

[Berries]

Is prepherial vision the third eye or the Japs eye?

[Kittyhawk]

Is prepherial vision the third eye or the Japs eye?

Neither, but women have a greater perprephial scope than men....it's tested at optomertrists.

[Berries]

Whoooooaaaa, that is the bit between the anus and the genitalia isn't it?? I want to go to that optician.

[madandy]

Isnt peripheral vision strongest in prayed upon creatures? Predatory types tend to rely more on the direct field of vision like 1-100 bike lengths (in front)

Pr aps thats why the odd wing mirrors manages to jump out and make contact with some lane splitters?:killingme

[Swoop]

How many cats eyes can you slaylom without hitting them....I did 10 today....

Hopefully not while splitting? Concentration needs to be on the real road hazards.

[cheshirecat]

They found with RAF tail gunners in the last war, to best way to spot fighters was to let the periphial vision do its work and not focus on any specific area. That way they might get past the 6 week survival rate. Just like despatch riding eh Katman!

[Dragon]

Was running late for an important meeting this morning so had to lane split had forgotten how easy it is though Im not sure I wanted to be doing it at 100km :s

Did it pretty much from Tawa onwards stopped when I wasnt feeling safe and let the other bikes passed was good getting behind the other guys because meant I didnt get the whole tunnel vision

[Tigadee]

...women have a greater perprephial scope than men....it's tested at optomertrists.

That's what I tell my wife too when she catches me looking at pretty young things out the corners of my eye... :innocent: LOL

"But honey, SHE was checking me out and not vice versa, 'cos women have better peripheral vision than men..."

Of course she'll say, "Yeah right! She must have pretty bad eyesight if she's checking YOU out!"

[roogazza]

Is lane splitting when you ride between the lanes up to the front row at lights ?
If so I've been doing that for about 50years, and will continue thanks.
I've survived this long riding the way I do. That is riding quicker than the general flow.

[Voltaire]

I lanesplited ( is that a word) up to the lights a while back....noticed drivers on both side of me playing with their phones at low level..... I see that a lot at traffic lights......and on the motorway....the cellphone 'drift' kicks in.

[swbarnett]

Neither, but women have a greater perprephial scope than men....it's tested at optomertrists.
I'm of the three-legged gender and my peripheral vision was the widest the optometrist had ever seen when I got tested for my Swiss license. At the time it was beyond what the machine could measure.

[bosslady]

And it was so fantasticcccc

[Maha]

Neither, but women have a greater perprephial scope than men....it's tested at optomertrists.

:killingme....some can only see as far as the last statement they made...is that what you mean? ;)

[Banditbandit]

And it was so fantasticcccc

Jeeeesus H Christ - you've been here too long .. you've been infected and sorry, there is no cure ...

[The End]

Jeeeesus H Christ - you've been here too long .. you've been infected and sorry, there is no cure ...

Even if she's infected, Bosslady's profile pic is hot.

[Maha]

Even if she's infected, Bosslady's profile pic is hot.

Have you not seen that photo of Disco Dan before?

[The End]

Have you not seen that photo of Disco Dan before?

I feel as though I have put myself in an awkward situation here...

[Mooch]

Was running late for an important meeting this morning so had to lane split had forgotten how easy it is though Im not sure I wanted to be doing it at 100km :s

Did it pretty much from Tawa onwards stopped when I wasnt feeling safe and let the other bikes passed was good getting behind the other guys because meant I didnt get the whole tunnel vision

I think I see you most mornings. You seem to be going well.

Seems to be two camps with the Wellington motorway filtering / lane spliting riders. Those that can and do it well and those that shouldn't. Most seem to do it well.

I watched with horror from my car in Feb as a GN rider wobbled between a car and truck on the narrow bit passed Jville. They were close to loosing it on the catseyes and going under the truck tyres. Saw the bike later on near Wellington parked up as the rider had come off but fortuntely was ok. I think they needed some more basic handling skills before taking on filtering / spliting.


For those clipping mirrors every now and then might want to consider that they will up for a grand or two if they take out a euro car with auto diming, heated with side camera mirror. From recall bike insurance execess are quite high let alone a scooter rider with 3rd party only. if they dont mind clipping then no doubt they don't mind paying if it results in damage.

[Kittyhawk]

Hopefully not while splitting? Concentration needs to be on the real road hazards.
come lane splitting and count for me.... lost count the other day.:lol:

[swbarnett]

For those clipping mirrors every now and then might want to consider that they will up for a grand or two if they take out a euro car with auto diming, heated with side camera mirror. From recall bike insurance execess are quite high let alone a scooter rider with 3rd party only. if they dont mind clipping then no doubt they don't mind paying if it results in damage.
How long is it going to take some of you to undersand that we are NOT talking about taking out a mirror. We're talking about CLIPPING a mirror i.e. touching mirror to mirror with no damage resulting.

[Katman]

How long is it going to take some of you to undersand that we are NOT talking about taking out a mirror. We're talking about CLIPPING a mirror i.e. touching mirror to mirror with no damage resulting.

You're talking about clipping a mirror with no damage resulting.

The reality is though that it all depends on how hard the mirror is 'clipped'.

[Madness]

How long is it going to take some of you to undersand that we are NOT talking about taking out a mirror. We're talking about CLIPPING a mirror i.e. touching mirror to mirror with no damage resulting.

How long is it going to take some of you to understand that despite there being no damage resulting in your opinion, there is significant damage being done each & every time to the perception of motorcyclists held by other law obiding motorists everywhere?

I ride a motorcycle in the weekends. Weekdays I find myself stuck in a large (new) 4-wheeled vehicle. I move over to make more for bikes splitting but at the same time if I see a splitting bike clip a mirror it makes my blood boil to the extent that I feel the need to smash the biker in the face for being an ignorant cunt. I wonder how the driver of the vehicle who just had their mirror clipped might feel, in light of the fact that they themselves probably have never ridden a bike at all.

It's ignorance in its lowest form.

You keep reassuring yourself and others that there is no real damage being done & you'll make yourself feel so much better about lane splitting badly next time you collide with another vehicle who is rightfully occupying that lane at the time. That's what your position is all about really, innit?

[swbarnett]

You're talking about clipping a mirror with no damage resulting.

The reality is though that it all depends on how hard the mirror is 'clipped'.
OK, I'm talking about "clipping". You're talking about hitting or colliding. The subtlety of the english language does not lend itself to effective communication with words alone.

[Katman]

As Madness rightly points out, the damage done is not necessarily restricted to the mirror.

[swbarnett]

I see a splitting bike clip a mirror it makes my blood boil to the extent that I feel the need to smash the biker in the face for being an ignorant cunt.
You need some anger management. Would you smash the pedestrian in the face for being an ignorant cunt if they bumped in to you in a crowd?

[Madness]

OK, I'm talking about "clipping". You're talking about hitting or colliding. The subtlety of the english language does not lend itself to effective communication with words alone.

You'd make a really bad defence lawyer for a sexual assault charge. I can just see it now; "There was no penile penetration, your honour. I submit my client should be allowed to walk free as no real damage has been done".

[bluninja]

This all a bit like the 'smacking' law isn't it. You can smack a child as long as you don't leave any mark or redness on the skin...so it's ok to clip wing mirrors as long as you don't damage them.

Just like with smacking, and with regards to clipping wing mirrors...people ask why should you ever need to?....why put yourself in a position where it can happen?

We all know it doesn't need to happen, but some people do it by accident, and some people don't seem to understand what the fuss is about.

Whoops this is the lane splitting thread and not the wing mirror clipping thread...though it's hard to tell at times :baby:

[Madness]

You need some anger management. Would you smash the pedestrian in the face for being an ignorant cunt if they bumped in to you in a crowd?

Of course not for reasons I have explained already. I've actually done an anger management course and have no problem with containing my emotions IRL when confronted with ignorant fuckwits. It's on KB where I struggle with those circumstances.

[Madness]

This all a bit like the 'smacking' law isn't it. You can smack a child as long as you don't leave any mark or redness on the skin...so it's ok to clip wing mirrors as long as you don't damage them.

I doubt that anyone would agree that it's o.k to walk up to a child who is minding their own business and has caused no offence and give them a smack though.


Just like with smacking, and with regards to clipping wing mirrors...people ask why should you ever need to?....why put yourself in a position where it can happen?

I'm saying feel free to put yourself into that position providing you're sure you have the skills, mental capacity and morals to ensure you don't clip any mirrors. Physical damage to another motorists wing mirror or lack thereof is not the issue, it's about respect. Why is this concept sooooooooo hard to grasp for some?

[swbarnett]

Of course not for reasons I have explained already. I've actually done an anger management course and have no problem with containing my emotions IRL when confronted with ignorant fuckwits. It's on KB where I struggle with those circumstances.
Glad to hear it. As I've said before it's very hard to get to know someone just from what it posted.


You'd make a really bad defence lawyer for a sexual assault charge. I can just see it now; "There was no penile penetration, your honour. I submit my client should be allowed to walk free as no real damage has been done".
The two situations are hardly the same. This issue is one of intent.


I doubt that anyone would agree that it's o.k to walk up to a child who is minding their own business and has caused no offence and give them a smack though.
Agreed. But you're talking about a deliberate act. It's a tottally different matter, however, if someone was walking near a child and bumped into said child after tripping on a wonky paving stone.


Physical damage to another motorists wing mirror or lack thereof is not the issue, it's about respect. Why is this concept sooooooooo hard to grasp for some?
This is where we differ. I agree that, if a wing mirror is clipped then the rider obviously cocked up and probably lacks the skill for eror free lane-splitting. However, the real issue is one of intent.

[Madness]

Intent
Intent
Intent
Intent
Intent
Intent
Intent
Intent

It is about intent and respect of others. Do you sometimes find your self splitting between two lanes already occupied by other vehicles by accident? No, you don't do you. You split lanes with intent and it's the lack of respect of others that finds you in situations where you may or indeed have collided with other vehicles.

You as the rider of the bike have the option of not going into a gap or to go in with the attitude of "here's hoping for the best, won't matter anyways so long as I don't smash the fuckers off completely".

Do you get it yet?

:facepalm:

Why do you have to keep bringing pedestrians bumping into each other into this discussion? Pedestrians are not governed by lanes, controls, traffic regulations, te road code or te land tansport act. Try to keep it on topic, eh?

[swbarnett]

Do you sometimes find your self splitting between two lanes already occupied by other vehicles by accident? No, you don't do you.
Well, actually, I have. But I do understand what you're saying. Yes, the act of lane splitting is done with intent. The intent of travelling through a gap without touching another vehicle.



You split lanes with intent and it's the lack of respect of others that finds you in situations where you may or indeed have collided with other vehicles.
Right, I think we're getting down to the crux of the matter. Yes, I agree that it is the responsibility of the rider to judge the gap correctly in advance. However, there are situations for novice lane splitters where "I thought the gap was big enough". Mirror clipped, no damage, lesson learnt and if possible apology given. There is no lack of respect here because, as much as the novice was able, all due care and attention was given. Or are you saying we should never lane split because we're not all born with the ability to judge gaps perfectly?


You as the rider of the bike have the option of not going into a gap or to go in with the attitude of "here's hoping for the best, won't matter anyways so long as I don't smash the fuckers off completely".
I have never taken a gap without believing that the gap was big enough. Once or twice in the early days I misjudged the gap and clipped a mirror. I learnt from the experience and haven't clipped a mirror in decades.


Why do you have to keep bringing pedestrians bumping into each other into this discussion? Pedestrians are not governed by lanes, controls, traffic regulations, te road code or te land tansport act. Try to keep it on topic, eh?
I bring pedestrians in to the discussion because it is a similar situation. There is no intent to bump each other and no lack of respect when it does happens. Yes, traffic is governed by lanes but we are allowed to share the lane.

[Katman]

However, there are situations for novice lane splitters where "I thought the gap was big enough". Mirror clipped, no damage, lesson learnt and if possible apology given. There is no lack of respect here because, as much as the novice was able, all due care and attention was given.

I think the intent of this thread is to ensure that the correct lesson is learnt.

If it generally were, we would expect to see very little instances of clipping mirrors.

[Madness]

Well, actually, I have.

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the third quote in your own signature line then?


Yes, the act of lane splitting is done with intent.

Thank fuck you finally got there.


Right, I think we're getting down to the crux of the matter. Yes, I agree that it is the responsibility of the rider to judge the gap correctly in advance. However, there are situations for novice lane splitters where "I thought the gap was big enough". Mirror clipped, no damage, lesson learnt and if possible apology given. There is no lack of respect here because, as much as the novice was able, all due care and attention was given. Or are you saying we should never lane split because we're not all born with the ability to judge gaps perfectly?

I have not and never will say that motorcyclists shouldn't lane split whilst it remains technically legal. The situation you outline where the rider thought the gap was big enough but wasn't is directly tied to respect. If the rider had respect for others they would be giving a wider tolerance when gauging the width of the gap, not just basing it on the width of their bike plus 5mm either way. To suggest that a novice should be given slack due to their lack of skills and experience also doesn't stack up in my opinion for two reasons; The clogged Auckland motorways at peak times is no place to learn the skills necessary to split safely and the collision with other vehicles is not an acceptable price to be paid for learning such skills. Once again, the actual damage inflicted to a wing mirror, or lack thereof has sweet fuck all to do with it. A collision is a collision is a collision.

How does the driver of a car who has its mirror clipped by a splitting biker supposed know how experienced the rider is? They don't, therefore they'll likely put the collision down to ignorance and a lack of respect on the part of the motorcyclist.


I have never taken a gap without believing that the gap was big enough. Once or twice in the early days I misjudged the gap and clipped a mirror. I learnt from the experience and haven't clipped a mirror in decades.

So your own mirror-clipping experiences came from a lack of mental ability rather than a lack of ability to maintain a straight line is what you're saying. Great, see my first comment in this post.


I bring pedestrians in to the discussion because it is a similar situation. There is no intent to bump each other and no lack of respect when it does happens.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I believe the two situations have nothing in common at all.


Yes, traffic is governed by lanes but we are allowed to share the lane.

Providing you don't collide with the other vehicle. Simple as fuck really when you get past your attempts at self-justification, innit?

[Kittyhawk]

No time to be faffing around clipping mirrors, get out of my way Im on the road! Do it fast enough so that by the time the driver realises you are there, you have already gone past! :devil2:

[FJRider]

No time to be faffing around clipping mirrors, get out of my way Im on the road! Do it fast enough so that by the time the driver realises you are there, you have already gone past! :devil2:

I'm safe on the "other" island in the meantime then ... :devil2:

[Kittyhawk]

I'm safe on the "other" island in the meantime then ... :devil2:

Rubbish! there is nooo escape!

[FJRider]

Rubbish! there is nooo escape!

Don't make me come up there and show you how it should be done :cool: ... (at least I'll be safe in front ... maybe :lol:)

[Hugo Nougo]

Hi, riding for 30+ years clipped a mirror the other day, hand up in apology, checked video later to find car moving over in bumper to bumper trafic at 10 - 20 kph, no indicator no chance of changing lane, my fault or there's ?. ( i know the answer )

[swbarnett]

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the third quote in your own signature line then?
Definitely. This case happened after a long ride in near sub-zero conditions with not ehough warm gear. My brain was definitely not on my riding. Just as bloody well for me my instincts kicked in and took the appropriate evasive action (given that I failed to see the situation developing).


Thank fuck you finally got there.
I've never said otherwise. Although I may have implied it unintentionally. My assertion is that the mirror-clipping is not done with intent.


The clogged Auckland motorways at peak times is no place to learn the skills necessary to split safely
Where else? You need clogged conditions to get the traffic speed low enough for novice splitters.


Simple as fuck really when you get past your attempts at self-justification, innit?
No self-justification. I've already said that I cocked up and learnt from it.

Learners, by their very nature, lack the skills to perfectly execute that which they are trying to learn. That's why it's called learning, not doing. Mistakes will be made.

[Deano]

Neither, but women have a greater perprephial scope than men....it's tested at optomertrists.

You'd think that would help with your spacial skills, you know, like when parallel parking :Pokey: :killingme

[Maha]

You'd think that would help with your spacial skills, you know, like when parallel parking :Pokey: :killingme

.......or backing a trailor..:scratch:

[DMNTD]

Jebus! All this so called lane splitting certainly does take its time dunnit?

[Madness]

Where else? You need clogged conditions to get the traffic speed low enough for novice splitters.

Learners, by their very nature, lack the skills to perfectly execute that which they are trying to learn. That's why it's called learning, not doing. Mistakes will be made.

Anywhere else that takes your fancy. The way I see it the skills required involve accurate bike control at low speeds and good spatial judgement. You don't need 5:30 North-Western conditions to create an environment to learn such skills IMO, what's wrong with using trolleys in a supermarket carpark after-hours or do what I and many others did by riding off road amongst trees, etc.

If ACC and Moto-NZ had even half a brain between them we'd be seeing more support behind initiatives like the Gymkhana events organised last year which, as I understand, were given fuck all support despite being approached.

From the viewpoint of a driver of a 4-wheeled vehicle regularly stuck in Aucklands daily moving carpark, a splitting bike is a splitting bike. Displaying an L-plate doesn't make me think I should cut them more slack if I see them splitting badly, it tells me they are probably less skilled and experienced, therefore they should be even more careful and conservative in their splitting decisions. Should a noob collide with my vehicle whilst splitting I'll probably be even more pissed off than if they were a Ulysses member. Hope that helps.

[Madness]

Jebus! All this so called lane splitting certainly does take its time dunnit?

Some people are slower than others.

[DMNTD]

Some people are slower than others.

I don't get it? Maybe I should take a closer look in the mirror?

[Madness]

I don't get it? Maybe I should take a closer look in the mirror?

Nah, you cruiser riders do enough of that already.

[DMNTD]

Nah, you cruiser riders do enough of that already.

Sure do, trying to understand why so many so-called sports bikes keep disappearing behind me.
Do you lot keep your receipts?
Oh Em Gee!

[Madness]

Sure do, trying to understand why so many so-called sports bikes keep disappearing behind me.
Do you lot keep your receipts?
Oh Em Gee!

I like to think of it as exercising self-control. Whilst on the subject of keeping receipts, I wonder if those of us who have been "unlucky" have kept all their hospital bracelets?

[Madness]

Hi, riding for 30+ years clipped a mirror the other day, hand up in apology, checked video later to find car moving over in bumper to bumper trafic at 10 - 20 kph, no indicator no chance of changing lane, my fault or there's ?. ( i know the answer )

Perhaps if you were paying more attention at the time you wouldn't have to have relied on video footage to see what was happening? Just saying.

[Ocean1]

Anywhere else that takes your fancy. The way I see it the skills required involve accurate bike control at low speeds and good spatial judgement. You don't need 5:30 North-Western conditions to create an environment to learn such skills IMO, what's wrong with using trolleys in a supermarket carpark after-hours or do what I and many others did by riding off road amongst trees, etc.

If a bike fails to clear a pair of cars while splitting there's several likely reasons. The gap was never large enough, car a closed the gap, car b closed the gap, both cars closed the gap, the rider tagged a or b even though the gap was large enough. I'd say the first is tolerably rare, even novices tend to be pretty conservitive in judging where their bikes will fit. Reckon the last isn't too likely, either, for the same reason.

I've not spent too much time riding around shopping trolleys, but I suspect they probably don't move around as you ride past, eh? Although I'm not so sure about trees, I've been mugged by a few of the more mobile sort. So while I think your practice routine is a good one, I don't think it helps much with the splitting thing. The winning strategy there looks to be wait for a gap well wider than you actually need and then get gone before the bastards drift off line, eh? And if you think that still leaves your arse too exposed to people who's driving and observation skills you know nothing about then I can only suggest that sitting in line in traffic probably isn't much safer.

[Madness]

If a bike fails to clear a pair of cars while splitting there's several likely reasons. The gap was never large enough, car a closed the gap, car b closed the gap, both cars closed the gap, the rider tagged a or b even though the gap was large enough. I'd say the first is tolerably rare, even novices tend to be pretty conservitive in judging where their bikes will fit. Reckon the last isn't too likely, either, for the same reason.

I've not spent too much time riding around shopping trolleys, but I suspect they probably don't move around as you ride past, eh? Although I'm not so sure about trees, I've been mugged by a few of the more mobile sort. So while I think your practice routine is a good one, I don't think it helps much with the splitting thing. The winning strategy there looks to be wait for a gap well wider than you actually need and then get gone before the bastards drift off line, eh? And if you think that still leaves your arse too exposed to people who's driving and observation skills you know nothing about then I can only suggest that sitting in line in traffic probably isn't much safer.

Whatever floats yer boat. Point is that using the motor vehicles of others as a training tool to get the basic skills required just doesn't stack up, just as the defence of "accidents happen" doesn't wash with many. After 25-odd pages I still stand by post #23, it's that simple.

To suggest that sitting in the queue is no safer than splitting is just plain stupid IMO.

[Mooch]

How long is it going to take some of you to undersand that we are NOT talking about taking out a mirror. We're talking about CLIPPING a mirror i.e. touching mirror to mirror with no damage resulting.

If you clipping mirrors then there isn't enough room to pass .... simple.

what about someone keying the paint on the side of your bike ? ..... No damage eh.

All your doing is pissing off car drivers who are more than likely going to give the next lane splitting bike even less room.

[Ocean1]

Whatever floats yer boat. Point is that using the motor vehicles of others as a training tool to get the basic skills required just doesn't stack up, just as the defence of "accidents happen" doesn't wash with many.

No arguement here. Haven't noticed anyone else disagreeing much either.


After 25-odd pages I still stand by post #23, it's that simple.

Guess I just don't agree that it's that simple. You can be perfection personified but no amount of practice will keep the other fucker from smearing you all over the side of a bus.


To suggest that sitting in the queue is no safer than splitting is just plain stupid IMO.

My opinion comes from having been tagged from behind twice in traffic and having been reversed into at lights, I've never touched a thing splitting. So I tend to be a bit proactive about keeping my space clear, but, y'know, whatever floats your boat.

[Madness]

Guess I just don't agree that it's that simple. You can be perfection personified but no amount of practice will keep the other fucker from smearing you all over the side of a bus.

Oh, but it is that simple. Any simpler and it would be from Upper Hutt.


I've never touched a thing splitting.

You must be perfection personified then, surely. Keep it up but I still don't agree on your stance that riding between two occupied lanes is safer than sitting in a lane proper. To suggest so to noobs is rather irresponsible IMO. Would I rather get a (rather unlikely) tap from the vehicle behind me or get (highly likely) smeared all over the side of a bus? Hmmmmm, it aint rocket science is it?


I've had vehicles roll back towards me at traffic lights too whilst I've been in all manner of vehicles, it happens. Are you suggesting that I should run up on a road island beside a queue of traffic in my ute to avoid this happening in future?

[sugilite]

.......or backing a trailor..:scratch:

I went to back my trailer today, but then found some inconsiderate prick on a motorcycle had wiped my mirrors off as I changed lanes into him. :rolleyes:

With all the needlework Madness does on KB, his house must look awesome with the crochet carpet, 100% embroidery covered walls, complimented with the braided & tasseled garage. I'm sure ALL the African children really appreciated the knitted cardies they received too!

[Madness]

With all the needlework Madness does on KB, his house must look awesome with the crochet carpet, 100% embroidery covered walls, complimented with the braided & tasseled garage. I'm sure ALL the African children really appreciated the knitted cardies they received too!

That kind of kitsch decor might be fashionable in the Tararua District but you'll find none of that shit here. As for the Africans, fuck 'em.

Did you have a point?

[sugilite]

Did you have a point?

Shit no, you have the mortgage on those!

[Madness]

Shit no, you have the mortgage on those!

Thanks for posting then, despite the feeble attempt to take the thread off topic.

[sugilite]

Thanks for posting then, despite the feeble attempt to take the thread off topic.

You got the mortgage on thread too?

[Madness]

You got the mortgage on thread too?

Actually I'm mortgage-free. Back to the topic at hand though, please.

[sugilite]

Actually I'm mortgage-free. Back to the topic at hand though, please.

Yes, good point, we need more repetitions :yes:

[Madness]

Yes, good point, we need more repetitions :yes:

Apparently. Seems we're getting there slowly though, just some are a little more retarded than others. How's the shiny rock collection going?

[sugilite]

Apparently. Seems we're getting there slowly though, just some are a little more retarded than others. How's the shiny rock collection going?

I'm sure your needlework will convert them all eventually.
The shiny rock collection is going great thanks, I even pay attention to the odd dull rock. I'd talk bout that more, but it's off topic. Now back to lane splitting, since we all just cannot get enough!
I do it when I feel it's safe, but my idea of safe might be different from other peoples, who would of thought!

[Madness]

I'm sure your needlework will convert them all eventually.

Not trying to convert anyone, I leave that to Ed. Simply discussing lane-splitting and giving a perspective that doesn't blend in with the "she'll be right, no damage done" mentality that will no doubt contribute to someone getting killed eventually.


Now back to lane splitting, since we all just cannot get enough!

Nobody's forcing you to read this thread, let alone post in it. You could always polish your stones again if you're bored.


I do it when I feel it's safe, but my idea of safe might be different from other peoples, who would of thought!

I'm so pleased for you. I do the same, funnily enough. I've been known to do some silly things whilst riding my bike too but this has yet to include me colliding with the vehicles of other road users. That is the general gist of this thread, in case you haven't figured that out.

[swbarnett]

Anywhere else that takes your fancy. The way I see it the skills required involve accurate bike control at low speeds and good spatial judgement. You don't need 5:30 North-Western conditions to create an environment to learn such skills IMO, what's wrong with using trolleys in a supermarket carpark after-hours or do what I and many others did by riding off road amongst trees, etc.
This will go a long way towards developing the necessary skills. It is not a panacea, however. Even with all the idalised practice in the world there is no substitute for real world experience. The controlled conditions can be quite different from the real world. All I'm really saying is that, like all road users, we're human and as such are fallible.


From the viewpoint of a driver of a 4-wheeled vehicle regularly stuck in Aucklands daily moving carpark, a splitting bike is a splitting bike. Displaying an L-plate doesn't make me think I should cut them more slack if I see them splitting badly, it tells me they are probably less skilled and experienced, therefore they should be even more careful and conservative in their splitting decisions.
This is a bit of a catch 22. If you don't have the skills and experience you don't know how far to push it until you come close to the edge. Unfortunately, being human, sometimes that edge is stepped over ever so slightly no matter how careful you think you're being; especially for a novice.


Should a noob collide with my vehicle whilst splitting I'll probably be even more pissed off than if they were a Ulysses member. Hope that helps.
What does it matter who does it? The affect is still the same and it's the experienced ones that should know better.

[swbarnett]

Point is that using the motor vehicles of others as a training tool to get the basic skills required just doesn't stack up,
Show me someone on a learner's license that doesn't do this. In any type of vehicle. They don't exist.

[swbarnett]

If you clipping mirrors then there isn't enough room to pass .... simple.
Agreed. Never said otherwise.


what about someone keying the paint on the side of your bike ? ..... No damage eh.
This is not the same. Mirror touching mirror at low speed can leave no physical evidence. You're need a CSI team to even prove it happened.

[sugilite]

Not trying to convert anyone,
Hilarious.




Nobody's forcing you to read this thread, let alone post in it. You could always polish your stones again if you're bored.
I prefer natural, not polished. You tripped yourself up the last time you presumed to know my business too. I even forgot to mention I had 3 employees on that last post too)



I'm so pleased for you. I do the same, funnily enough. I've been known to do some silly things whilst riding my bike too but this has yet to include me colliding with the vehicles of other road users. That is the general gist of this thread, in case you haven't figured that out.

Note to self: "I must resist patronizing needlework and succumbing to mind numbing tenacity of Madnesses posting prowess, like the others that dared to have an alternate idea on his reality and fell away gasping for cyber breath"

[Maha]

Inconsiderate cager fucks, how DEAR they own the bit of road they are on....thats a bikers right only..............innit? :rolleyes:

[Madness]

This will go a long way towards developing the necessary skills. It is not a panacea, however. Even with all the idalised practice in the world there is no substitute for real world experience. The controlled conditions can be quite different from the real world. All I'm really saying is that, like all road users, we're human and as such are fallible.

I agree that we are human and we do make mistakes. That said, if you're riding a bike and you're squeezing between traffic when you collide with another vehicle I think you should take a really good look at yourself and ask the question "should I have been there?" I'd suggest that the answer in a lot of cases would be (if you're being honest with yourself) no.


This is a bit of a catch 22. If you don't have the skills and experience you don't know how far to push it until you come close to the edge. Unfortunately, being human, sometimes that edge is stepped over ever so slightly no matter how careful you think you're being; especially for a novice.

Again, riding in a narrow gap between rows of motor vehicles is not the place to learn where the limits are or to be riding anywhere near the edge of ones ability. To do so is disrespectful of others and their property.


What does it matter who does it? The affect is still the same and it's the experienced ones that should know better.

Yay! You're getting it. My comment was in light of the apperarance of you suggesting that motorists should cut learners some slack when it comes to them having their mirrors clipped. It does not matter how experienced the rider is in my opinion, see post #23.

[Madness]

Hilarious.

I prefer natural, not polished. You tripped yourself up the last time you presumed to know my business too. I even forgot to mention I had 3 employees on that last post too)


Note to self: "I must resist patronizing needlework and succumbing to mind numbing tenacity of Madnesses posting prowess, like the others that dared to have an alternate idea on his reality and fell away gasping for cyber breath"

I'm forming the opinion that you are a cock and as such I will ignore your posts. Feel free to do the same.

[swbarnett]

I still don't agree on your stance that riding between two occupied lanes is safer than sitting in a lane proper.
There's been a study done in the US comparing California (where lane splitting is legal) to all other states (where it's not). The accident rate in heavy traffic is significantly lower in California.


I've had vehicles roll back towards me at traffic lights too whilst I've been in all manner of vehicles, it happens. Are you suggesting that I should run up on a road island beside a queue of traffic in my ute to avoid this happening in future?
If the vehicle backing into you was a tank I would certainly say that would be the correct course of action. Change ute for bike and tank for car, truck or bus and the situation is about the same.

[Madness]

Show me someone on a learner's license that doesn't do this. In any type of vehicle. They don't exist.

So you're comparing a learner driver in a car who drives their car normally within a marked lane to a rider who rides within a 2-foot wide gap between lanes of stationary traffic?

Hardly a fair comparison, is it?


If the vehicle backing into you was a tank I would certainly say that would be the correct course of action. Change ute for bike and tank for car, truck or bus and the situation is about the same.

I wasn't referring to the action required if this was happening in front of me, I was referring to taking this approach at every instance I approach a set of traffic lights. If the vehicle was backing into me and I was directly in it's path it would be fairly obvious that evasive action was required. Sometimes though the obvious isn't so obvious to some, eh?

[sugilite]

I'm forming the opinion that you are a cock and as such I will ignore your posts. Feel free to do the same.

I had you on ignore, but then 85% of this thread just disappeared!

[swbarnett]

I agree that we are human and we do make mistakes. That said, if you're riding a bike and you're squeezing between traffic when you collide with another vehicle I think you should take a really good look at yourself and ask the question "should I have been there?" I'd suggest that the answer in a lot of cases would be (if you're being honest with yourself) no.
I never said otherwise. That's why I'm a better splitter than I was when I started - hitting myself over the head (figuratively) for the slightest mistake.


Again, riding in a narrow gap between rows of motor vehicles is not the place to learn where the limits are or to be riding anywhere near the edge of ones ability. To do so is disrespectful of others and their property.
You can only learn so much in controlled conditions. Sooner or later you've got to bite the bullet and jump in, boots and all.


Yay! You're getting it. My comment was in light of the apperarance of you suggesting that motorists should cut learners some slack when it comes to them having their mirrors clipped. It does not matter how experienced the rider is in my opinion, see post #23.
No, I meant that you should cut everyone some slack because a. you don't know wether or not they should know better and b. shit happens, no harm no foul. I do it to car drivers that try and park on me quite regularly.

[Madness]

No, I meant that you should cut everyone some slack because a. you don't know wether or not they should know better

If they're in control of a motor vehicle on a public road then they should know better, end of story.



and b. shit happens, no harm no foul.

Shit doesn't just happen though, fuckwits make it happen. Again, just because in your esteemed opinion that a wing mirror that has been clipped by a splitting biker hasn't incurred physical damage it does not mean that no damage has been done by the collision. The hypothetical "damage free" collision has the potential to affect the opinion of other road users towards all motorcyclists, including those who don't lane split badly.

[swbarnett]

So you're comparing a learner driver in a car who drives their car normally within a marked lane to a rider who rides within a 2-foot wide gap between lanes of stationary traffic?

Hardly a fair comparison, is it?
It is if you consider that first time a novice car driver overtakes on the open road. Learning to drive in traffic necessitates using other vehicles as guinee pigs. That's why we have L plates. So that those other drivers know not to expect that novice to drive "normally".


I wasn't referring to the action required if this was happening in front of me, I was referring to taking this approach at every instance I approach a set of traffic lights. If the vehicle was backing into me and I was directly in it's path it would be fairly obvious that evasive action was required. Sometimes though the obvious isn't so obvious to some, eh?
I didn't explain it very well. What I meant was that I wouldn't feel too safe driving a ute in a line of tanks.

[swbarnett]

If they're in control of a motor vehicle on a public road then they should know better, end of story.
So noone's allowed to learn to drive then?

[Madness]

It is if you consider that first time a novice car driver overtakes on the open road. Learning to drive in traffic necessitates using other vehicles as guinee pigs. That's why we have L plates. So that those other drivers know not to expect that novice to drive "normally".

That's all well and good for a learner who rides within their lane and overtakes using a passing lane or the other side of the centre line, no issue. Lane-splitting is not a pre-requisite activity in order to ride a bike on the road though and I certainly don't recall being tested on lane-splitting when I went through the graduated license system. The noob will of course have to have to have a "first time" should they choose to lane-split, all I ask is that they be sure they have the basic skills to do so without hitting my vehicle. It's not that much to ask, surely?

[Madness]

So noone's allowed to learn to drive then?

Now now, I think you need to sloow doown a little. I'm not saying no-one is allowed to learn to drive (or ride), I'm saying that if a biker clipped my wing mirror whilst lane-splitting I would expect them to know that this is unacceptable behaviour and them being a learner does not preclude them from this expectation. It's the road, it's not a dodgem ride.

[Ocean1]

Oh, but it is that simple. Any simpler and it would be from Upper Hutt.

So, you live in Kansas is it? Where people can acquire suficient skills to eliminate the risk from other road users?


Keep it up but I still don't agree on your stance that riding between two occupied lanes is safer than sitting in a lane proper. To suggest so to noobs is rather irresponsible IMO. Would I rather get a (rather unlikely) tap from the vehicle behind me or get (highly likely) smeared all over the side of a bus? Hmmmmm, it aint rocket science is it?


I'd rather get neither. Hence the qualification about keeping my space as free from risk as possible. If I consider it's safer to split past the guy in front in order to put space between me and the guy behind who's following too close then that's what happens. If that offends against some rule, personal, official or otherwise stiff shit, I find hard and fast rules nowhere near as effective in risk management as a healthy paranoia.


I've had vehicles roll back towards me at traffic lights too whilst I've been in all manner of vehicles, it happens. Are you suggesting that I should run up on a road island beside a queue of traffic in my ute to avoid this happening in future?

I'd suggest you do anything possible to avoid it. If I thought it worthwhile suggesting anything at all to someone who should be well old enough to have his own ideas about such shit.

[Madness]

So, you live in Kansas is it? Where people can acquire suficient skills to eliminate the risk from other road users?

No, unfortunately I find myself living in Auckland, lane-splitting capital of New Zealand.


If I consider it's safer to split past the guy in front in order to put space between me and the guy behind who's following too close then that's what happens. If that offends against some rule, personal, official or otherwise stiff shit, I find hard and fast rules nowhere near as effective in risk management as a healthy paranoia.

Certainly doesn't offend me, in fact I agree whole-heartedly. Your quoted post wasn't so clear (much like the bit below) so thanks for taking the time to clarify this point.


If I thought it worthwhile suggesting anything at all to someone who should be well old enough to have his own ideas about such shit.

Huh? Did you get distracted at the end of typing that post by chance?

[Ocean1]

Huh?

It's your life. Nobody on earth has the right to tell you how to spend it.

Not me.

Not Skatman.

Nobody.

[Madness]

It's your life. Nobody on earth has the right to tell you how to spend it.

Not me.

Not Skatman.

Nobody.

No issues there. It's my fucking wing mirror, nobody on earth has the right to clip it whilst splitting past me in heavy traffic.

Not you.

Not Mr Branett.

Not Skippythekangaroo.

:niceone:

[Ocean1]

No issues there. It's my fucking wing mirror, nobody on earth has the right to clip it whilst splitting past me in heavy traffic.

Not you.

Not Mr Branett.

Not Skippythekangaroo.

:niceone:

I agree.

As a rule.

[Madness]

I agree.

As a rule.

I'm pleased by that.

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/535398_618210008206042_1753895006_n.jpg

[pritch]

If that offends against some rule, personal, official or otherwise stiff shit, I find hard and fast rules nowhere near as effective in risk management as a healthy paranoia.


Agree absolutely. The other day the car in front of me attracted my attention as being driven a bit strangely. Nothing in particular just a bit strange - then she stopped at a green light.

I passed her up the inside using the gutter (I was on the moped) and was gone. Fuck hanging around someone who is apparently enjoying the full effects of their favourite recreational chemical.

[Ocean1]

I'm pleased by that.

I was at Te Marua speedway last night for the first time in many years.

It's an education, for sure.

[Ocean1]

Agree absolutely. The other day the car in front of me attracted my attention as being driven a bit strangely. Nothing in particular just a bit strange - then she stopped at a green light.

I passed her up the inside using the gutter (I was on the moped) and was gone. Fuck hanging around someone who is apparently enjoying the full effects of their favourite recreational chemical.

What, and no sign of the constabulary? I'm astonished your not severly crippled, at least!

[Maha]

I was at Te Marua speedway last night for the first time in many years.

It's an education, for sure.

It that the one at the start (ish) of the Rimutakas?

[Ocean1]

It that the one at the start (ish) of the Rimutakas?

It is indeed. Apart from the spectator gate location it hadn't change in 25 years.

No bikes, though, and no sidecars.

[swbarnett]

That's all well and good for a learner who rides within their lane and overtakes using a passing lane or the other side of the centre line, no issue.
With overtaking the issue is not one of road or lane width. It's about the length of the gap the ovretaking driver decides is long enough.


Lane-splitting is not a pre-requisite activity in order to ride a bike on the road though
Technically, niether is overtaking. It is quite possible to ride or drive from Cape Rienga to Bluff without overtaking anyone.


and I certainly don't recall being tested on lane-splitting when I went through the graduated license system.
Things may have changed in the 30 years since I sat my license but I certainly wasn't tested on overtaking either.



The noob will of course have to have to have a "first time" should they choose to lane-split, all I ask is that they be sure they have the basic skills to do so without hitting my vehicle. It's not that much to ask, surely?
This is a bit of a catch 22. Being "sure they have the basic skills to do so without hitting my vehicle" can only be done with certainty in hindsight. You have to test the skills you think you have before you can be certain you have them. In academia, someone that knows a little about a subject will most likely think they know a lot. There comes a point when they know enough to realise exactly how little you actually know. The same holds true for any thing that must be learnt.


Now now, I think you need to sloow doown a little. I'm not saying no-one is allowed to learn to drive (or ride), I'm saying that if a biker clipped my wing mirror whilst lane-splitting I would expect them to know that this is unacceptable behaviour and them being a learner does not preclude them from this expectation. It's the road, it's not a dodgem ride.
No argument there.


No issues there. It's my fucking wing mirror, nobody on earth has the right to clip it whilst splitting past me in heavy traffic.

Not you.

Not Mr Branett.

Not Skippythekangaroo.

:niceone:
Another thing we agree on. Nobody's claiming in this thread that they have a right to clip a wing mirror. Just that, as we are human, it does happen (especially to novices), it's not deliberate and doesn't always warrant anything more than a wave of apology.

[bosslady]

Right. To whomever can't take a joke and didn't realise my last post was in jest and is a mock of a Katy Perry song. Im sorry that you hope I get crippled by a car. But dare I say, with a sick attitude like that, I'm sure that fate will sooner be inflicted on you than I. Also, GO FUCK YOURSELF.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Finally some common sense, Can we close the sandpit now ?
It was entertaining for a while, but too much of anything gets a bit boring
BL, are you at the next NASS ride ?

[arcane12]

Almost 30 pages. Will you blog this? Or hope to sweep the thread under the carpet? ;)

It has been a while since you added to your blog.

[bluninja]

Right. To whomever can't take a joke and didn't realise my last post was in jest and is a mock of a Katy Perry song. Im sorry that you hope I get crippled by a car. But dare I say, with a sick attitude like that, I'm sure that fate will sooner be inflicted on you than I. Also, GO FUCK YOURSELF.

Mmmm Katy Perry......
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTLNe9ayJ3iHkU009hjk1fPUthZlBMT2 lTANkQKUASt9WAbbhuQ

[bosslady]

Finally some common sense, Can we close the sandpit now ?
It was entertaining for a while, but too much of anything gets a bit boring
BL, are you at the next NASS ride ?

Nah I might go to SASS tho if work doesnt conflict!


Almost 30 pages. Will you blog this? Or hope to sweep the thread under the carpIt has been a while since you added to your blog.
You're right it has. I don't have a pc or laptop tho only a tablet so it takes me ages to do anything!


Mmmm Katy Perry

She's gots sum big bewbies

[ducatilover]

I do lubs this thread.

[pritch]

Right. To whomever can't take a joke and didn't realise my last post was in jest and is a mock of a Katy Perry song. .

I am innocent of any knowledge pertaining to Katy Perry songs. Furthermore I'm entirely happy to stay that way.

Now I have to look back to your last post.

Having read the many previous pages it seems quite possible that humour may have taken people by surprise?

[arcane12]

You gotta fight for your right to clip mirrors!

[Banditbandit]

Mmmm Katy Perry......


Yummie yummie ... I'll bet I can make HER toes curl ...

http://images.werdyo.com/2011/02/05/perry/katy-perry-purple-dress-purr-fragrance-launch-5.jpg

[PrincessBandit]

Inconsiderate cager fucks, how DEAR they own the bit of road they are on....thats a bikers right only..............innit? :rolleyes:

Sherrif of Rottingham - Robin Hood Men in Tights "He deered to kills a king's dare"

[Madness]

I'm away from home on business, thankfully far away from the shit hole that is Auckland and its "motorway" network. I haven't replied to Mr Branett's last post because (believe it or not) I'm getting rather tired of it too. I had a thought yesterday though, round about Putaruru, that I'd like to put out there.

If a motorcyclist collides with a vehicle whilst lane-splitting as we all understand it, regardless of the level of damage inflicted to a wing mirror, I think it is fair and perfectly reasonable for that rider to be charged with Careless Driving and face the full consequences that charge carries.

Again, I'm on an iPhuck so don't expect much in the way of posts this week, sorry Pebbles.

/Edit: Katy Perry's rack is a gift from God himself. I'd still run off with Anne Hathaway before Katy though, but that's another story.

[BoristheBiter]

/Edit: Katy Perry's rack is a gift from God himself. I'd still run off with Anne Hathaway before Katy though, but that's another story.

But only if she grows here hair back
http://shechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/anne-hathaway-16.jpg?w=500&h=854

[swbarnett]

If a motorcyclist collides with a vehicle whilst lane-splitting as we all understand it, regardless of the level of damage inflicted to a wing mirror, I think it is fair and perfectly reasonable for that rider to be charged with Careless Driving and face the full consequences that charge carries.
Isn't that just typical of today's safety zealot riddled society. Drown the baby for shitting in their nappies.

To charge someone with careless for a slow speed mirror tap would be the same using careless for the haneous crime of 5kph over the speed limit.

We don't cut people's hands off for stealing anymore either.

[BoristheBiter]

We don't cut people's hands off for stealing anymore either.

but we should.

[Madness]

To charge someone with careless for a slow speed mirror tap would be the same using careless for the haneous crime of 5kph over the.

Completely different. I'm no Lawyer but after having spent many a day sitting in traffic Courts in a previous life I believe I have a good understanding of the nature of the charge. To clip the wing mirror of another vehicle is quite obviously operating a vehicle in a manner below that of a prudent driver.

I should add that Mr Branetts reaction is hardly surprising and that I'd marry Anne Hathaway even if she had hair full of nits.

[BoristheBiter]

Completely different. I'm no Lawyer but after having spent many a day sitting in traffic Courts in a previous life I believe I have a good understanding of the nature of the charge. To clip the wing mirror of another vehicle is quite obviously operating a vehicle in a manner below that of a prudent driver.

I should add that Mr Branetts reaction is hardly surprising and that I'd marry Anne Hathaway even if she had hair full of nits.

Was that why she cut her hair off?

[swbarnett]

Completely different.
The increased risk for each is only that percieved in the eyes of those that are compelled to try and control the uncontrollable.


I'm no Lawyer but after having spent many a day sitting in traffic Courts in a previous life I believe I have a good understanding of the nature of the charge.
While you may be technically correct, to charge someone with careless for a low speed tap would just illustrate what I'm referrng to when I talk about safety zealots.


To clip the wing mirror of another vehicle is quite obviously operating a vehicle in a manner below that of a prudent driver.
A prudent "driver" would not lanesplit simply because of the girth that comes with four wheels. However, a prudent rider will ride between traffic when it is appropriate. By its very nature lane-splitting puts the rider within range of a car's wing mirror. The rider is not even necessarily at fault. If the car moved towards the bike they may be at fault for moving into another vehicle that was legally sharing the lane.


I should add that Mr Branetts reaction is hardly surprising
Due to the ever increasing number of people in this world that think it's not OK to be human. People cock up. They always have and always will. Nothing you or anyone else can do is going to change that. The only reasonable option is to get used to it.

[Katman]

Due to the ever increasing number of people in this world that think it's not OK to be human. People cock up. They always have and always will. Nothing you or anyone else can do is going to change that. The only reasonable option is to get used to it.

Spoken like a true celebration of mediocrity.

[BoristheBiter]

Due to the ever increasing number of people in this world that think it's not OK to be human. People cock up. They always have and always will. Nothing you or anyone else can do is going to change that. The only reasonable option is to get used to it.

What a crap defeatist attitude to have.
Next you will be saying we should get used to crime, or never strive to be better as we are going to fuck up so no point wasting time in training.

Why do you think our roads are like they are?

[bluninja]

We are human, we make mistakes, accept it and move on people.

That does not mean people do not strive to improve, to reduce the number or severity of those mistakes, to excel at certain tasks and to approach perfection for as long as they can.

The suggestion that accepting that humans making mistakes is analogous to accepting crime is well wide of the mark. "Sorry officer I accidentally fell through the window and this big screen TV stuck to my fingers so I took it home so I coudl unstick it" :lol:

Accepting mediocrity would be setting speed limits lower and lower and engineering cars so dumb arses survive when they lack the skills and expertise to drive without hitting something. :tugger:

[Katman]

....when they lack the skills and expertise to drive without hitting something. :tugger:

Somehow I think that's what this whole thread's been about.

:whistle:

[bluninja]

Somehow I think that's what this whole thread's been about.

:whistle:

I thought some of it seemed to be that:-

You must gain real world experience without ever being in the real world. OR
Lane sharing should be banned. OR
People are too materialistic and should accept taps to their wing mirrors as part of motoring in congested cities. OR
Lets see how long we can keep a simple thread going without getting it kicked into pointless drivel :cool:

[swbarnett]

Spoken like a true celebration of mediocrity.
Actually, spoken like a true celebration of what it is to be human. We cock up because we are willing to push ourselves to improve.


What a crap defeatist attitude to have.
Reallist, not defeatist.


Next you will be saying we should get used to crime, or never strive to be better as we are going to fuck up so no point wasting time in training.
I have struggled with this my whole life. I never allowed myself to cock up; the only way to guarentee not cocking up was not to try. It was only when I learnt that cocking up was part of what it means to be human that I could allow myslef to try new things.

[Madness]

Cock up as much as you like but be it not at the expense or inconvenience of others. I believe that not only am I technically correct but also morally correct. This is not so much about safety as much as respect, plain simple respect. Mr Branett is so far up his own arse with regard to his own freedom he's forgotten about the freedom of others to go about their business without selfish wankers colliding with their vehicle and for what? Selfish, selfish man.

[Madness]

I thought some of it seemed to be that:-

You must gain real world experience without ever being in the real world. OR
Lane sharing should be banned. OR
People are too materialistic and should accept taps to their wing mirrors as part of motoring in congested cities. OR
Lets see how long we can keep a simple thread going without getting it kicked into pointless drivel :cool:

Whilst I can't speak for others I can say that for me this thread is and has been all about post #23. It's so fucking simple it's ridiculous.

[DMNTD]

If you can't split without hitting the wing mirrors of cars you shouldn't be splitting in the first place. How would you like it if another splitting biker clipped your bike?

The offending post....way too true for KB though mister.

[Phantom Limb]

I want to cap off with something positive. Had two cop cars pull over to give me more room when lane splitting down the NW motorway to work today. Good bastards, gave them the thumbs up. ;)

[Tigadee]

Had two cop cars pull over to give me more room when lane splitting down the NW motorway to work today. Good bastards, gave them the thumbs up.

Hope the other cars saw it and learned from it. :niceone:

I was filtering through near dead stop traffic yesterday morning when a white pick-up truck with "Downer" on the side started squeezing the space in-between cars. So I slowed down as it wasn't safe, but then he suddenly opened up the space again and I went through.

As I passed, I heard him cussing and figured either he was mad at me for not passing him fast enough (not likely), or at the unusual jam or the next driver for not letting him into the next lane.

Whatever it was, I chose not to be affected by him, with the thought that "I may be responsible for [not damaging] your property and safety, but I am not responsible for your state of mind/happiness, although I understand your frustrations with the traffic conditions which is why I am on a motorcycle."

Keeping a sharp eye and a calm state of mind when filtering is the best way to do it...

[TheTengTheory]

So all this spliting has been mentioned on a multi-lane situation. What about single lane scenarios?

I was riding down exmouth rd in north cote yesterday and it was quite a rather long line of cars waiting. I had two options. Crossed the yellow lines and onto incoming traffic over a high crest or undertake (large enough for a car to comfortably drive through in most places). I chose to undertake and pootled along at 20kph.

Yay or nay?

also last night there was a muppet in a yellow Hyobag screaming down queen st going in and out of moving traffic....not impressed. :mad: especially since he pissed off the drivers I was riding pass as well.

[bluninja]

So all this spliting has been mentioned on a multi-lane situation. What about single lane scenarios?

I was riding down exmouth rd in north cote yesterday and it was quite a rather long line of cars waiting. I had two options. Crossed the yellow lines and onto incoming traffic over a high crest or undertake (large enough for a car to comfortably drive through in most places). I chose to undertake and pootled along at 20kph.

Yay or nay?



Nay, unless you are a spotty scooter rider in school uniform, helmet undone, no gloves, and school sandals. Hopefully none of New Plymouth Boys High come on here :eek5:

[Cam_NZ]

My take is that its a pain in the ass to get anything replaced on a car... Crack a side mirror or even dent it.. that shit can take someone days to repair. The hassle of having no car for atleast a day, having to sort biker to pay for it, dropping it off at a panel beater(or whoever fixes them) all such a pain... All because some biker went overboard.

You want cars to shift over when you come past? not to cut you ? Keep incidents to a minimum, ride slower, dont go in with the attitude "algud if i hit a mirror ill just apologise and pay/ ride off" because of above reasons.

I've been riding to the northshore from howick two days a week, and without lanesplitting it would take me 1hr20mins+ instead of 30-40. Cops will be more inclined to pull bikers over if mirrors are being hit...

Didnt really read half the posts so if its been said then good on ya!

[swbarnett]

Cock up as much as you like but be it not at the expense or inconvenience of others.
By definition this is not always possible.


I believe that not only am I technically correct but also morally correct.
And therin lies the downfall of society as we know it. The very notion of a utopian society where noone gets hurt in any way and where humans are held to a automaton level of perfection is what will one day in the not too distant future bring us to ruin.


This is not so much about safety as much as respect
How about showing some respect for the rights of others to be human. I know only too well that the only way to avoid impacting others is to have never been born in the fist place. We exist, therefore we interact. Sometimes those interactions will not be positive. This is what it means to exist in an over-crowded world.


Selfish, selfish man.
I am not selfish in the slightest. I fight this fight so that others may have the freedom to learn and grow without self-important safety zealots stopping them from even trying.

[swbarnett]

If you can't split without hitting the wing mirrors of cars you shouldn't be splitting in the first place. How would you like it if another splitting biker clipped your bike?
The offending post....way too true for KB though mister.
Of course the lie to "the offending post" is put by the fact that we are not born with lane-splitting ability. Simple really.

[nerrrd]

Got stuck in the mental Auckland traffic last night, thought about lane-splitting and then thought about this thread...and didn't.

Cooked myself, the engine and possibly the clutch for about an hour and a half, but no car mirrors were harmed. Felt pretty stooopid, though - mind you given some of the crazy things the cars/buses/cyclists around me were doing, collecting a mirror might have been the least worst outcome if I had.

[Madness]

By definition this is not always possible. And therin lies the downfall of society as we know it. The very notion of a utopian society where noone gets hurt in any way and where humans are held to a automaton level of perfection is what will one day in the not too distant future bring us to ruin. How about showing some respect for the rights of others to be human. I know only too well that the only way to avoid impacting others is to have never been born in the fist place. We exist, therefore we interact. Sometimes those interactions will not be positive. This is what it means to exist in an over-crowded world. I am not selfish in the slightest. I fight this fight so that others may have the freedom to learn and grow without self-important safety zealots stopping them from even trying.

Do you wear a special outfit when you're posting this shit? I've come to the conclusion that your riding must be pretty ahabby if you accept colliding with other vehicles occasionally as a routine by-product of normal motorcycle riding. Not only must you be a pathetic rider, you're a fruit-loop to boot. I hope I never have the displeasure of bumping into you in traffic.

[swbarnett]

... you accept colliding with other vehicles occasionally as a routine by-product of normal motorcycle riding.
You've got quite a vivid imagination. Nowhere did I ever say that. I accept it as a very infrequent part of learning to ride a motorcycle.

[Katman]

I accept it as a very infrequent part of learning to ride a motorcycle.

It is also frequently a sign of a piss poor attitude towards other road users.

[swbarnett]

It is also frequently a sign of a piss poor attitude towards other road users.
You can have the best attitude in the world. You're still human and so are those around you.

[Katman]

You can have the best attitude in the world. You're still human and so are those around you.

What about the ones with the fucked attitude?

[swbarnett]

What about the ones with the fucked attitude?
One hopes that karma will visit them and mete out justice that fits the crime.

[Katman]

One hopes that karma will visit them and mete out justice that fits the crime.

And in the meantime the rest of us can just deal with the fallout.

[Subike]

I dont know if this will expand the conversation at all, or will be taken as just another shit post, I dont fucking care.

OK

My bike is in the shop, having a repair done to it, the shop has loant me an identical bike to use till mine is ready. Same year, model, tire size etc.
I lane split, filter, enjoy my ride home and to work every day, with no hassles, I understand my bike and it performs exactly how I want it to do. Filtering, splitting just happens. Have not clipped a mirror since riding this bike. ( have on previous bikes)
Now.
I have the "other " bike, I do not feel safe splitting on it, Filtering mmmm so so. It does not feel as secure on the road as my bike. it does not give me the confidence my bike does in its feedback . Yet its the same bloody bike. I clipped a mirror on the way home last night!!!
Why?
I have my own opinions...interested in the groups.

[Katman]

Could be something as little as different tyres.

[Subike]

Could be something as little as different tyres.

Good point, both bikes are fitted with the same tires, the loaner week before it was traded in @10k, now done 10350
my tires were fitted the same week, @15k, its now done 17560k....2000k difference?
Both bkes run the same tire pressures. I checked it before I took it out of the shop.
But I do understand your reasoning, fair point.

[scumdog]

What about the ones with the fucked attitude?

They're just being individuals...sorta like the 1%-ers of the road...

[paturoa]

Could be something as little as different tyres.

Or tyre pressure, or ferked steering head bearings, or sad fork springs. Bazillions of reasons why two identical not new bikes handle differently.

[Subike]

Or tyre pressure, or ferked steering head bearings, or sad fork springs. Bazillions of reasons why two identical not new bikes handle differently.

Fair comment, New tires, as just stated, both bnikes have been on the road just over a year, , a weeping right front fork seal on the loaner.
But as for not new...when in your opinion does a bike not be new, Both have just passed their 2nd WOF.

[Katman]

Fair comment, New tires, as just stated, both bnikes have been on the road just over a year, , a weeping right front fork seal on the loaner.
But as for not new...when in your opinion does a bike not be new, Both have just passed their 2nd WOF.

Dude, they're fucking Keeways.

Consistency is probably listed highly on their company charter.

[Subike]

Dude, they're fucking Keeways.

Consistency is probably not their strongpoint.

Thats an assumption . Let you off the hook, the angle of the handle bars....as for their strong points, look at the mileage of other bikes being repaired....its sickening to see, triumph, suzukis, yamanha, bla bla bla, all getting parts replaced under warrentee within the first 12 mths, and hardly done 10k...The make of the bike has nothing to do with it. Its the set up and the maintenance.
Right my point being.
Where your handle bars are set , is it within the range of 750 - 900mm, which is the range of average wing mirrors on passenger vehicles.
An adventure bike is set higher, its mirrors are probably 300mm above that, where your bars and mirrors are set, the will either go over, under or hit mirrors.. the loaners bars were set in an upright position, mine are set in a laid back position.. difference of 200mm from the ground to the mirror, I was use to lower bars, thus working the gaps differently.

[FJRider]

a weeping right front fork seal on the loaner.
But as for not new...when in your opinion does a bike not be new, Both have just passed their 2nd WOF.

And what was the rest of the suspension like .. ??? and how stringent are they on suspension set-ups during WoF checks.

Seldom are bikes of the same model, same age, same tyres, same mileage ... similar in handling.

Unless they've been ridden in a similar manner. And even then unlikely ..

[Tigadee]

Do you? lane split? if so, have you ever clipped a car? and what did you do about it, nothing I guess? what can you really do if it's almost bumper to bumper on all lanes for quite a few ks? just asking...

Came across this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNGD9AAIfFU&feature=player_detailpage

Is it me or do American road lanes appear wider?

[Katman]

Thats an assumption . Let you off the hook, the angle of the handle bars....as for their strong points, look at the mileage of other bikes being repaired....its sickening to see, triumph, suzukis, yamanha, bla bla bla, all getting parts replaced under warrentee within the first 12 mths, and hardly done 10k...The make of the bike has nothing to do with it. Its the set up and the maintenance.
Right my point being.
Where your handle bars are set , is it within the range of 750 - 900mm, which is the range of average wing mirrors on passenger vehicles.
An adventure bike is set higher, its mirrors are probably 300mm above that, where your bars and mirrors are set, the will either go over, under or hit mirrors.. the loaners bars were set in an upright position, mine are set in a laid back position.. difference of 200mm from the ground to the mirror, I was use to lower bars, thus working the gaps differently.

Dude, I have a customer with a Keeway Supershadow (that had less than 10,000kms on the clock and never been in an accident) that had it's handlebars crack completely in two places between the clamps at either end of the oval cutout in the bars.

Best you have a closer look at yours.

[Subike]

Dude, I have a customer with a Keeway Supershadow (that had less than 10,000kms on the clock and never been in an accident) that had it's handlebars crack completely in two places between the clamps at either end of the oval cutout in the bars.

Best you have a closer look at yours.

Been there done that, its not a worry, was made aware of that possibility visa the net and talking to other owners......Next?

[cheshirecat]

Won't be one thing rather a whole raft of small stuff, like fork oil, tyre profile after wear, chain tension/sprocket wear etc. When filtering one tends (hopes) to be placing the bike with some precision and it tends to be upright placing emphasis on how it tracks on a well used part of the tyres. Your brain will be relying on subconcious subroutines and will be panicking when they don't match up to the the new imput. Be interesting when your bike returns. My theory anyway

[Subike]

Won't be one thing rather a whole raft of small stuff, like fork oil, tyre profile after wear, chain tension/sprocket wear etc. When filtering one tends (hopes) to be placing the bike with some precision and it tends to be upright placing emphasis on how it tracks on a well used part of the tyres. Your brain will be relying on subconcious subroutines and will be panicking when they don't match up to the the new imput. Be interesting when your bike returns. My theory anyway

Thanks an informative post

[scumdog]

look at the mileage of other bikes being repaired....its sickening to see, triumph, suzukis, yamanha, bla bla bla, all getting parts replaced under warrentee within the first 12 mths, and hardly done 10k...T.

Comments like that worry me, at over 5 times that distance and only one gear-box seal needing replaced I have to wonder "what is wrong with my bike?" :confused::D

[paturoa]

Comments like that worry me, at over 5 times that distance and only one gear-box seal needing replaced I have to wonder "what is wrong with my bike?" :confused::D

I read dazza's thread, he replaced way more that just a seal on the XN!

[Subike]

Comments like that worry me, at over 5 times that distance and only one gear-box seal needing replaced I have to wonder "what is wrong with my bike?" :confused::D

"what is wrong with my bike" nothing Tom, its called 100 years of making the same motor design, and improving it each year, not making a motor each year and improving it by making another the following year. In my opinion.

[FJRider]

"what is wrong with my bike" nothing Tom, its called 100 years of making the same motor design, and improving it each year, not making a motor each year and improving it by making another the following year. In my opinion.

The design of the V twin engine ... HD have been putting in their bikes for the last 100 years ... has changed considerably. The worth of any changes and/or improvements to the various models ... is subject to frequent and loud debate by owners/riders ... and every other man (and his bitch) ... that ever threw a leg over one (or NOT) ...

If you own a bike ... and ride it ... and like riding it ... it's a far better option than not riding.

Some bikes have what some call "issues" ... others call them "character" .. and that's how they like it.

My bike has "character issues" that I can live with and enjoy.

So I do.

[Madness]

I accept it as a very infrequent part of learning to ride a motorcycle.

I and many others find it quite unacceptable. A motorcyclist should already posess the required bike control, situational awareness and respect towards other road users before attempting to split lanes if they are to do so successfully and and without making themselves look like ignorant cunts.

:finger:

[Phantom Limb]

I'm constantly bitching about riders going too fast when lane splitting (over 40KPh is probably too fast to stop in a car length).
However, I got stuck behind a wobbly on a RS250 this morning who would not leave 1st gear and panic braked when a car so much as twitched. Really, that was annoying! :Oi:

[swbarnett]

I and many others find it quite unacceptable. A motorcyclist should already posess the required bike control, situational awareness and respect towards other road users before attempting to split lanes if they are to do so successfully and and without making themselves look like ignorant cunts.
Unfortunately there are still people in this world that insist on treating everyone around them as if they're running to a clearly defined program. I should know, I used to be one of them.

Sorry, but Human v2.0 hasn't been written yet.

[Tigadee]

Get a Harley (or loud pipes fitted)... cars split like the red Sea for you. :laugh:

[swbarnett]

Get a Harley (or loud pipes fitted)... cars split like the red Sea for you. :laugh:
Indeed. I found that when I had the Yoshi put on.

Another thing that does the trick is hazard lights.

[scumdog]

I read dazza's thread, he replaced way more that just a seal on the XN!

Yer but it hadn't actually broken down!:msn-wink:

[The End]

Back on topic...

I followed an SV650 home tonight with some aftermarket pipes on and woah, they make a hell of a difference!

We were lane splitting in pretty much stand still traffic and cars were moving out of his way as they could hear the pipes. Heck I was listening to music and could hear his/her beast roar.

+1 for loud pipes save lives.

[PrincessBandit]

Indeed. I found that when I had the Yoshi put on.

Another thing that does the trick is hazard lights.

Yeah, still debating whether to slip a yoshi on the bandit. There are times I'd like it a little noisier.

[FJRider]

Yeah, still debating whether to slip a yoshi on the bandit. There are times I'd like it a little noisier.

A young slip of a girl like yourself ... would attract enough attention :msn-wink:

With a noisy exhaust ... other eyes start looking your way too .... :scratch:

[swbarnett]

Yeah, still debating whether to slip a yoshi on the bandit. There are times I'd like it a little noisier.
Was a no-brainer for me. Insurance replacement for a few scratches. Call comes through "Standard pipe's going to be 6 months, you want a Yoshi?" :niceone:

[skippa1]

Interesting.....I had to do the commute from Titirangi to CBD today and got to the intersection of Titirangi Rd and Margan Rd. I had a rider on a 900 Hornet, complete with yellow glow vest, pull up as we were stopped at the lights, he couldnt fit between my car and the one in the lane beside me. He folded back my drivers wing mirror rode through, without making eye contact and without putting it back.
I then stopped at the intersection of Titirangi and Gt Nth Rd, and had a person on a black 250 Ninja clip my passenger wing mirror. Two within less than 500m!
I had a guy on a Triumph Tiger weasle around me and the car in front....how he got around I have no idea but he was good.

Guess what? No damage and no anger! Interesting though, in total, I had 11 splitters, including scooters and bikes, two mirror touches. Just under 20% hit rate.:blink:

[sugilite]

Guess what? No damage and no anger! Interesting though, in total, I had 11 splitters, including scooters and bikes, two mirror touches. Just under 20% hit rate.:blink:

Yikes! Hardly a glowing endorsement on motorcycle riders. I suspect if you were not a rider yourself, you would feel different about things, especially the guy that folded your mirror!
No wonder more and more car drivers dislike bikers, I'm having to admit I can see why :(

[Tigadee]

I had a rider on a 900 Hornet, complete with yellow glow vest, pull up as we were stopped at the lights, he couldnt fit between my car and the one in the lane beside me. He folded back my drivers wing mirror rode through, without making eye contact and without putting it back.

That's rude!! :oi-grr:


Sent from my Commodore 64

[Grashopper]

I had a rider on a 900 Hornet, complete with yellow glow vest, pull up as we were stopped at the lights, he couldnt fit between my car and the one in the lane beside me. He folded back my drivers wing mirror rode through, without making eye contact and without putting it back.


That's rude!! :oi-grr:



Would have been cool though if he had put it back. :yes:


Sent from my Amiga 500

[Berries]

Interesting.....I had to do the commute from Titirangi to CBD today and got to the intersection of Titirangi Rd and Margan Rd. I had a rider on a 900 Hornet, complete with yellow glow vest, pull up as we were stopped at the lights, he couldnt fit between my car and the one in the lane beside me. He folded back my drivers wing mirror rode through, without making eye contact and without putting it back.
My first thoughts were what a wanker. My second thoughts are too, arrogant twat. But then to be fair, if you aren't going to use your mirrors in traffic to see if a bike is splitting and catching up with you so you can move over for them you don't really need them do you?




Sent from the Valley of Death using very light artillery.

[Tigadee]

Would have been cool though if he had put it back.

Of course, and then it would be a happy story and a cool example of a good polite rider but unfortunately...


Sent from my iRock 6

[Devil]

My first thoughts were what a wanker. My second thoughts are too, arrogant twat. But then to be fair, if you aren't going to use your mirrors in traffic to see if a bike is splitting and catching up with you so you can move over for them you don't really need them do you?
.

That's a serious assumption you're making there. Somewhat unfair i'd wager.

Hornet guy is a cunt.

[Swoop]

Get a Harley (or loud pipes fitted)... cars split like the red Sea for you. :laugh:
Not from what I regularly witness.
Cars seem oblivious and the harley riders seem to like wide bars and mirrors, this makes them come to a standstill whenever a gap narrows down.
Or you get the other end of the spectrum when they just use the "bus lane" (emergency shoulder)...


Sent from the pool using beer-burps.

[wysper]

Not from what I regularly witness.
Cars seem oblivious and the harley riders seem to like wide bars and mirrors, this makes them come to a standstill whenever a gap narrows down.
Or you get the other end of the spectrum when they just use the "bus lane" (emergency shoulder)...


Sent from the pool using beer-burps.

Or the pipes scare them shitless and they do something stupid.

[bluninja]

Or the pipes scare them shitless and they do something stupid.

These pipes on a bike would scare me shitless :rolleyes:

http://www.alamy.com/THUMBS/6/%7B49C8FB69-8216-4828-8A1C-139051ACB515%7D/A2RNAB.JPG

[wysper]

These pipes on a bike would scare me shitless :rolleyes:



Careful now, I resemble that picture. Except my bike is smaller.

[Kickaha]

+1 for loud pipes save lives.


There are times I'd like it a little noisier.

Anyone in a late model car with the radio on wont even hear you until you are alongside

[Berries]

Anyone in a late model car with the radio on wont even hear you until you are alongside
Or see you if the prick before you knocked his mirror off.

[Swoop]

Or the pipes scare them shitless and they do something stupid.
No. Certainly not that issue happening.

These pipes on a bike would scare me shitless :rolleyes:
Is it true that to get two pipers to play in tune, you have to shoot one of them?

[strandedinnz]

Interesting.....I had to do the commute from Titirangi to CBD today and got to the intersection of Titirangi Rd and Margan Rd. I had a rider on a 900 Hornet, complete with yellow glow vest, pull up as we were stopped at the lights, he couldnt fit between my car and the one in the lane beside me. He folded back my drivers wing mirror rode through, without making eye contact and without putting it back.
I then stopped at the intersection of Titirangi and Gt Nth Rd, and had a person on a black 250 Ninja clip my passenger wing mirror. Two within less than 500m!
I had a guy on a Triumph Tiger weasle around me and the car in front....how he got around I have no idea but he was good.

Guess what? No damage and no anger! Interesting though, in total, I had 11 splitters, including scooters and bikes, two mirror touches. Just under 20% hit rate.:blink:

One of the 11 probably included me as I do that same route every day ... but I've been good and not clipped anybody's mirrors for ages now! Not sure I'd be bold enough to fold in someone's mirrors if the squeeze was too tight, I tend to just wait till they notice which isn't usually long as I'm on a DR-Z that sounds like it has no baffles in the exhaust, hard not to notice :-)

[f2dz]

I dunno, I think I'd be pretty pissed off if someone moved my mirror. Not like it's a massive part of your bike to get past, he could've just adjusted slightly or dipped his bars to get by.

Haven't had anything like that myself, but did have a cruiser pull in front of me while splitting this morning without even checking if I was coming through or not, then proceeded to pooter along in front of me, slowing for every HUGE gap that he couldn't fit through because of his giant ass mirrors..

[Swoop]

but did have a cruiser pull in front of me while splitting this morning without even checking if I was coming through or not, then proceeded to pooter along in front of me, slowing for every HUGE gap that he couldn't fit through because of his giant ass mirrors..
What you need to do is yell out to the rider to "FOLD ALL GLASS!". This saying can be shortened to "FAG!" Simply yell it at the top of your lungs (so it can be heard when wearing a helmet) and the crusier rider will appreciate your helpful suggestion!

[SNF]

What you need to do is yell out to the rider to "FOLD ALL GLASS!". This saying can be shortened to "FAG!" Simply yell it at the top of your lungs (so it can be heard when wearing a helmet) and the crusier rider will appreciate your helpful suggestion!

That just made my day rofl. Had a prick in a commonwhore swerve towards me while passing. I do pass on the left - naughty I know, but if him and anyone else in their tuggermatic cages didn't masturbate all over the center line I would pass on the right - fuck doing hill starts on a bike with a slipping clutch! Annoyed me a bit. Lucky I wasn't having a bad day, would have been more than a mirror smashed that's for sure, Id run my bar down the whole side of it, should teach that fucker.......

[Coldrider]

That just made my day rofl. Had a prick in a commonwhore swerve towards me while passing. I do pass on the left - naughty I know, but if him and anyone else in their tuggermatic cages didn't masturbate all over the center line I would pass on the right - fuck doing hill starts on a bike with a slipping clutch! Annoyed me a bit. Lucky I wasn't having a bad day, would have been more than a mirror smashed that's for sure, Id run my bar down the whole side of it, should teach that fucker.......My commonwhore tuggomatic does not have to launch off at 16,000rpm on a hill start, so it is highly unlikely that you you will end up being spat out under my back bumper. However I have more self dicipline to drive my cage than some ride their bikes, guess it helps to keep the road toll down, and I actually make my destination, rather than dead on time.

[DMNTD]

Watched a well overconfident lane splitter get splatted yesterday on the motorway.
Riders need to realise that you are harder to see if you are ducking all over the place trying to make up that extra 2 seconds.
Also...if I can't see you in my mirror while you are lane splitting...it is not my fault, I do look hard, I do move over.
Make yourself be seen including keeping your indicator on.


I hope the rider ends up ok as he looked pretty toast

[bosslady]

Watched a well overconfident lane splitter get splatted yesterday on the motorway.
Riders need to realise that you are harder to see if you are ducking all over the place trying to make up that extra 2 seconds.
Also...if I can't see you in my mirror while you are lane splitting...it is not my fault, I do look hard, I do move over.
Make yourself be seen including keeping your indicator on.


I hope the rider ends up ok as he looked pretty toast

what happened?

[Maha]

what happened?

Someone was lane splitting and it didn't go to plan :corn:

[Road kill]

Ah well if it was safe few would do it.

Hope the rider recovers soon.

[Kokopelli]

Watched a well overconfident lane splitter get splatted yesterday on the motorway.
Riders need to realise that you are harder to see if you are ducking all over the place trying to make up that extra 2 seconds.
Also...if I can't see you in my mirror while you are lane splitting...it is not my fault, I do look hard, I do move over.
Make yourself be seen including keeping your indicator on.


I hope the rider ends up ok as he looked pretty toast

Was that a few hundred meters past the constellation drive on-ramp? Black sports bike? I've been passed by some real nutters long there. I don't leave my indicator on while lane splitting. I use it to indicate when I am pulling back into a lane. The way I see it, all responsibility rests with me. The drivers can't be expected to watch out for lane splitter all the time. Most are pretty good. I hat doing it, but my regular route involves a road works and a narrow single lane. I am not going back until that's sorted. Well I hope the rider is OK. I have no way of knowing what happened, so I am not going to judge him. What we are doing is really risky and this cannot be compensated for by skill alone.

[swbarnett]

What we are doing is really risky and this cannot be compensated for by skill alone.
Sorry, but this is a complete falsehood.

[Kokopelli]

Sorry, but this is a complete falsehood.

Have you never observed random behaviour by drivers. Like "oh, I'll just take that call", or "oops, I spilled my latte"? I am not going to argue with you, but I don't share your confidence.

[Madness]

I am not going to argue with you, but I don't share your confidence.

Wise move, he doesn't seem to ever concede defeat. I believe that for Mr Branett it's all about self-justification, rather than a belief based from a logical train of thought.

[FJRider]

Sorry, but this is a complete falsehood.

So ... overtaking vehicles ... that can be close enough that you "clip" their wing mirrors ... is not dangerous. And ... takes NO skill to perform at any time ... ??? :blink: :scratch:

[skippa1]

holy shit........this thread still going!:corn:

[Madness]

holy shit........this thread still going!:corn:

And you're still a fuckwit. :corn:

[skippa1]

And you're still a fuckwit. :corn:
still a tough guy aye:yawn:

[Madness]

still a tough guy aye:yawn:

Actually no, I don't ride a Victory.

[skippa1]

Actually no, I don't ride a Victory.

youre so predictable:blink:

[skippa1]

Actually no, I don't ride a Victory.


ps.....nor do I now

[Madness]

ps.....nor do I now

What happened? Get taken out lane-splitting? Maybe you found a bike that made you look even tougher when you ride it?

[skippa1]

What happened? Get taken out lane-splitting? Maybe you found a bike that made you look even tougher when you ride it?


aw you know, its nice to have a change every now and then. How are you doing anyway?

[Madness]

How are you doing anyway?

Doing great thanks. I have a job I love, a Mrs who takes great care of me and good friends who I can trust with my life. I had the pleasure of enjoying a nice ride up SH16 yesterday with that "new tyre feeling" on my Kawasaki, what more can one ask for out of life?

And you? How was the boy-sex holiday in Thailand?

[skippa1]

Doing great thanks. I have a job I love, a Mrs who takes great care of me and good friends who I can trust with my life. I had the pleasure of enjoying a nice ride up SH16 yesterday with that "new tyre feeling" on my Kawasaki, what more can one ask for out of life?

good for you, sounds like you are living the dream. Im good thanks for asking. I start a new job tomorrow, I also have a good woman and just racked up 4000kms on the new bike in three weeks.

[DMNTD]

what happened?
He ran out of perceived talent and losted, hard by the looks


Was that a few hundred meters past the constellation drive on-ramp? Black sports bike? I've been passed by some real nutters long there. I don't leave my indicator on while lane splitting. I use it to indicate when I am pulling back into a lane. The way I see it, all responsibility rests with me. The drivers can't be expected to watch out for lane splitter all the time. Most are pretty good. I hat doing it, but my regular route involves a road works and a narrow single lane. I am not going back until that's sorted. Well I hope the rider is OK. I have no way of knowing what happened, so I am not going to judge him. What we are doing is really risky and this cannot be compensated for by skill alone.

Yerp...but he is one of several matching that description around there. There's another guy that does the most divine stand up wheelies too.
Here's hoping he doesn't run out of talent too because that shit will hurt.

Re indicators...please do leave them on as I do not want to be apart of an accident/mirror clipping scenario and with them flashing away I have more chance of reading others riding etc
You could buy a decent lil bike with the cost of replacing on of "my"wing mirrors

[Katman]

Re indicators...please do leave them on as I do not want to be apart of an accident/mirror clipping scenario and with them flashing away I have more chance of reading others riding etc



It's all about the sharing of information.

[DMNTD]

It's all about the sharing of information.

True that fulla bro...the more I can read about others on the road, the less likely they will mess up my car/bike

[SNF]

My commonwhore tuggomatic does not have to launch off at 16,000rpm on a hill start, so it is highly unlikely that you you will end up being spat out under my back bumper. However I have more self dicipline to drive my cage than some ride their bikes, guess it helps to keep the road toll down, and I actually make my destination, rather than dead on time.

Was in a grump from said incident, guess I ran out of patience and discipline that day. Need to look at how I ride, occasionally do some dumb things. Don't really want to become another "mad bastard on a sports bike with L's!" statistic.

[Grashopper]

You could buy a decent lil bike with the cost of replacing on of "my"wing mirrors


Can I have one of your mirrors, please? Or better both, I do want to upgrade :lol:

[DMNTD]

Can I have one of your mirrors, please? Or better both, I do want to upgrade :lol:

Sure, we are offering 0% and 1/3 1/3 1/3 until the end of this month :sunny: :whistle:

[swbarnett]

Have you never observed random behaviour by drivers. Like "oh, I'll just take that call", or "oops, I spilled my latte"? I am not going to argue with you, but I don't share your confidence.
I disagree with your assertion on two counts:

1. Done properly, lane splitting is no more risky than any other form of road use.

2. The rider's skills are exactly what is needed to keep a lane splitter out of trouble. No, we can't control the actions of other drivers/riders; but we sure as hell can control how I react to them.

Leaving enough margin for error (mine or theirs) is something that was drummed into me when I first started riding. If I get myself into a situation where a mistake on either side results in harm to myself then I have not fulfilled my responsibility to my own safety.

Yes, I have observed random behaviour by drivers. I have had cars swerve towards me while I was lane splitting. However, I have always had the room to avoid an injurious impact. The few times I have made contact with the other vehicle only resulted in damage to my ego and were entirely my own fault.

[swbarnett]

So ... overtaking vehicles ... that can be close enough that you "clip" their wing mirrors ... is not dangerous.
Done at the right speed, no.



And ... takes NO skill to perform at any time ... ??? :blink: :scratch:
Where the hell did you get that? Skill is DEFINITELY required. What I disagreed with was the assertion that skill alone is not enough to keep us out of trouble.

[swbarnett]

I believe that for Mr Branett it's all about self-justification
I have come to the beliefs I now hold from exactly the opposite. Look back over my posts and you'll find that I have conceded a point on a number of occasions. I believe in listening to the arguments of others and gleaning what seems reasonable, if that is contrary to my current thinking then all the better; that means I've learnt something. I am happy to change my views if mine are shown to be illogical. You failed to do so.

[Disco Dan]

You get pretty good at predicting cars that are going to change lanes. Most of the time that has nothing to do with their indicator lights. Small changes in road position of the car, driver turning their head and gaps in traffic are the basic ones for me. You see a gap appear - instantly look at cars nearby who may wish to move into it. Cars moving to the edges of their lane - drivers naturally drift to the edge of the lane before they indicate and cross that line. Also look out for those that are actively checking their side mirrors as you approach - they are either angry/jealous and plan to move over to block you/make it more difficult for your or they are pro bikers and keeping an eye on your position. The few that do indicate generally indicate at the same time they begin moving so never rely on that as an early indication of them moving.

Keep a look out for trucks/trailers/caravans/horse boxes etc - they can create 'pinch points' especially on bends (even long sweeping bends) between the lanes of stationary traffic. Never go between two large trucks on a bend... unless they are both stationary and you can get through quickly and before anything moves again.

Keep an eye out behind you - if your going slower than other bikers splitting you can start to hold them up. Join the flow, let them pass and continue at your pace.

Always be prepared for ANY vehicle to suddenly move into your path. Cover your brake lever and your clutch lever, know your exit - have a plan that you constantly update in your head. Ie - if that red one moves over, I have space to brake or I have space to get behind the green one to avoid... etc etc

I found I would say to myself - that car is going to change lanes, then they would indicate and change lanes a few seconds later. Almost felt like I was predicting the future.. (was awesome) but then I started to really analyse what was going on and started noticing all these little clues (as mentioned) there is more but tricky for me to put into words.

Generally I would say for you to avoid lane splitting if you still panic brake when given a sudden incident. If you remain calm as a cucumber when someone pulls out on you or you have to suddenly avoid something - react calmly but quickly, then that is a pretty good indicator that your ready for lane splitting.

Hope that helps...

[Madness]

I am happy to change my views if mine are shown to be illogical. You failed to do so.

Had any post in this thread shown my personal views on this subject to be illogical I would be happy to change them. Unfortunately this is yet to happen and if anything at all your own posts in this thread have simply reinforced my views. I'd call that a fail.

Disco; nice post, well put.

[FJRider]

Done at the right speed, no.

So ... what is the right speed to lane split .. ??


Where the hell did you get that? Skill is DEFINITELY required. What I disagreed with was the assertion that skill alone is not enough to keep us out of trouble.


What else is required then ... a fair dose of luck ... ???

[bosslady]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_47KVJV8DU

[Dragon]

So ... what is the right speed to lane split .. ??




What else is required then ... a fair dose of luck ... ???

I think the ablity to not go oh shit and panic as well as knowing the bike well/how to get out of trouble helps

On friday I was splitting down the wellington motorway behind a guy on a Triumph and I almost went up the back of him due to the fact somone cut him off ( I think im not 100% sure why he slammed on his brakes because I was trying to avoid hitting him)

I managed to get around him but it could have gone very bad, I fucked up and shouldnt have let the situation happen and looking back I was probably pushing my splitting skill level to the conditons but the fact I was aware of a gap to go for and not to just lock up the brakes I did okish :s

Still a scary expirence that I will learn from

[FJRider]

I think the ablity to not go oh shit and panic as well as knowing the bike well/how to get out of trouble helps


Still a scary expirence that I will learn from

I think ability comes under the heading of skill.

And with your dose of luck .... All makes for a happy ending then ..

Stay lucky guys and gals ...

[swbarnett]

Had any post in this thread shown my personal views on this subject to be illogical I would be happy to change them. Unfortunately this is yet to happen and if anything at all your own posts in this thread have simply reinforced my views. I'd call that a fail.
The very fact that you expect people to be infallible is illogical. As I've said already, I used to think this way and still fall back into it from time to time. This, in itself, is a demonstration that I am willing to listen to a reasoned argument. Not just repeated assertions of the same perfectionist thinking.

Also, to blame the next rider for the actions of the previous is illogical (and also prejudice). I don't tar every car driver because one tries to park on me.


Disco; nice post, well put.
At least we can agree on this. Well said indeed.

[swbarnett]

So ... what is the right speed to lane split .. ??
That which gives you time and room to react and extricate yourself without harm to anyone. The wider the gap, the faster it can be taken.



What else is required then ... a fair dose of luck ... ???
To be clear, I'm asserting that skill alone is enough to keep a rider safe. I'm not just talking about bike control but also reading traffic etc.

You make your own luck.

[FJRider]

You make your own luck.

The funny thing about luck ... when most get some ... they usually put it down to their own skill and abilities (and proclaim their greatness to all and sundry). When in actual fact ... the result(s) of what occurred was out of their control. As a small error or different action of another motorist/person might have killed them.

[Madness]

The very fact that you expect people to be infallible is illogical. Blah, blah, wank, wank.

I've never stated that at all. I have suggested that in order to be a responsible rider, one should refrain from lane-splitting unless they are confident they are able to do so without colliding with other vehicles. That's hardly an expectation of perfectionism, is it?


Also, to blame the next rider for the actions of the previous is illogical (and also prejudice). I don't tar every car driver because one tries to park on me.

So the next time the driver of a 4 (or more) wheeled vehicle has their wing mirror clipped and they vent their frustration by taking out the next splitting biker that unfortunate biker should take comfort from their hospital bed that the driver was prejudiced. I doubt that will stem the flow of blood or lessen the pain somehow.


At least we can agree on this. Well said indeed.

Yeah, I particularly liked this bit:


Generally I would say for you to avoid lane splitting if you still panic brake when given a sudden incident. If you remain calm as a cucumber when someone pulls out on you or you have to suddenly avoid something - react calmly but quickly, then that is a pretty good indicator that your ready for lane splitting.

As Disco has suggested, splitting between lanes of traffic is hardly the place to learn new things & polish skills such as basic bike control.

By the way, you're a dick.

[swbarnett]

I've never stated that at all.
You certainly implied it. Expecting a zero ocurrance of mirror clipping is like expecting a zero road toll. The only way to achieve this is to have perfect riders.


I have suggested that in order to be a responsible rider, one should refrain from lane-splitting unless they are confident they are able to do so without colliding with other vehicles. That's hardly an expectation of perfectionism, is it?
Actually, yes it is. Many riders will start lane splitting when they think they are ready and over estimate their abilities.
However, I do agree that this is a laudible goal and good advice to the novice rider.


So the next time the driver of a 4 (or more) wheeled vehicle has their wing mirror clipped and they vent their frustration by taking out the next splitting biker that unfortunate biker should take comfort from their hospital bed that the driver was prejudiced. I doubt that will stem the flow of blood or lessen the pain somehow.
Now, this I can agree with whole heartedly. However, it's hardly the fault of that previous rider either.


Yeah, I particularly liked this bit:
Indeed. If this could be achieved all the time then I'd be very pleased. However, I don't believe this is acheivable. And FYI, I would be very glad to be proven wrong.


As Disco has suggested, splitting between lanes of traffic is hardly the place to learn new things & polish skills such as basic bike control.
One can't avoid learning new things while lane splitting (like lane splitting for example). I agree basic bike control is an entirely different matter.

[Maha]

My bike measures 1mtr at it's widest point, not alot of splitting/filtering going to had on that one would assume.

[Madness]

You certainly implied it. Expecting a zero ocurrance of mirror clipping is like expecting a zero road toll. The only way to achieve this is to have perfect riders.

Fuck off I did. I accept there will always be fuckwits who can't ride without colliding with other vehicles, which is why I believe such instances should be dealt with properly; with a Careless Use charge.


Now, this I can agree with whole heartedly. However, it's hardly the fault of that previous rider either.

The other riders actions have contributed to the hypothetical situation. It's unfortunate but as you well know the world isn't perfect which is why people need to think beyond the removal of a couple of microns of paint the next time they go clipping.


Indeed. If this could be achieved all the time then I'd be very pleased. However, I don't believe this is acheivable. And FYI, I would be very glad to be proven wrong.

Where's the harm in trying? It's gotta be better to have tried and failed than to sit there and say "meh, it's only paint, fuck'em"


I agree basic bike control is an entirely different matter.

It's the same matter entirely. Don't go splitting without having it by the bucketload.

[bosslady]

Fu
cks


sake...

[Madness]

Fu
cks


sake...

Have you been drinking?