Lane splitting/filtering: the legal and commonsense answers

[Disco Dan]

handbags at ten paces....

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/chipmunkduel.jpg

[bosslady]

Have you been drinking?

always always

[Madness]

handbags at ten paces....

I'll have to borrow yours then ya big homo. Sold the Zed yet?

[Disco Dan]

I'll have to borrow yours then ya big homo. Sold the Zed yet?

Once you make an honest man out of me.... lover...

Naa, decided to keep it. Things were getting pretty dicey for a while but managed to work my way out of the hole.. can afford to keep her now.

[Madness]

Once you make an honest man out of me.... lover...

Naa, decided to keep it. Things were getting pretty dicey for a while but managed to work my way out of the hole.. can afford to keep her now.

Sorry dude, I'm into vagina.

Good move on keeping it, looks like she's a minter.

[Disco Dan]

Sorry dude, I'm into vagina.

Good move on keeping it, looks like she's a minter.

That's not what you told me last night ;)

Cheers, amazed myself at what lengths I was prepared to go to in order to keep her.

PS, you know branet or whatever the frick he's called is complete troll ay?

[Madness]

PS, you know branet or whatever the frick he's called is complete troll ay?

Nah, he's real and a defender of freedom who wears a special lycra suit with a cape when he posts in this thread.

http://www.failepicfail.com/epic-fail/small/1012/super-hero-fail-super-hero-costume-nerd-dork-epic-fail-1291239692.jpg

[FJRider]

My bike measures 1mtr at it's widest point, not alot of splitting/filtering going to had on that one would assume.

Come on ... whats the worst that can happen ... :laugh:

[Voltaire]

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

I wonder if his 200 slaves agreed with this.....:innocent:

[swbarnett]

.....
Let me distill all this angst to one question:

My mother-in-law was a teenager in the Netherlands during WWII. Her local community engaged in some pretty risky activity during that period. For example, the Germans would erect telephone poles all over the fields to catch parachuting allied spies; that night the people of the village would chop them down and turn them in to kindling. Thankfully there were no reprisals for this but, had there been, would you blame the villagers for taunting the occupiers or the Gestapo that ordered the firing squad?

[swbarnett]

I wonder if his 200 slaves agreed with this.....:innocent:
I dare say they would have.

[Madness]

Let me distill all this angst to one question:

My mother-in-law was a teenager in the Netherlands during WWII. Her local community engaged in some pretty risky activity during that period. For example, the Germans would erect telephone poles all over the fields to catch parachuting allied spies; that night the people of the village would chop them down and turn them in to kindling. Thankfully there were no reprisals for this but, had there been, would you blame the villagers for taunting the occupiers or the Gestapo that ordered the firing squad?

I believe Godwins Law has been envoked in this thread already. Try to keep up,

Besides, what the fuck?

[swbarnett]

I believe Godwins Law has been envoked in this thread already. Try to keep up,
nah, I'd rather slow down a bit and avoid the mirrors. Actually, that's one thing I love about splitting past trucks - no way in hell I'm going to hit them, they're just too high.


Besides, what the fuck?
All I'm trying to say is that there is only one person responsible for a violent act - the person that perpetrated it. People that did something to piss them off in the past cannot be held responsible because we all have the free will to choose how we react to any given stimuli.

I used a WWII example to illustrate that blaiming anybody but the Gestapo would be to advocate collaborating with the occupiers.

[Maha]

Come on ... whats the worst that can happen ... :laugh:

Twack someones mirrors?

[MIXONE]

Twack someones mirrors?

Fuck,then you would have to go back and apoligise profusely offering your first born in reparation.

[Katman]

All I'm trying to say is that there is only one person responsible for a violent act - the person that perpetrated it. People that did something to piss them off in the past cannot be held responsible because we all have the free will to choose how we react to any given stimuli.


Yeah, it's a sad reflection on society.

Too many people are happy to act however the fuck they like regardless of the impact on others (including pissing car drivers off by hitting wing mirrors) and yet those same people are very quick to wash their hands of any responsibility when their actions instigate dramas for an innocent party.

[Maha]

Fuck,then you would have to go back and apoligise profusely offering your first born in reparation.

I now carry little bits of paper with my email address so that I can hand it out in such a situation...;)
My first born is now 23 and she would probably kick the doors in as well....:yes:

[Voltaire]

Surely taking up a whole lane with a ton of steel for one person is just downright rude.....they should charge them by weight to use the road. :innocent:

My new to me bike came to me with a Scotland flag on it....going to leave it there as Kiwis love tourists....

[swbarnett]

Yeah, it's a sad reflection on society.

Too many people are happy to act however the fuck they like regardless of the impact on others (including pissing car drivers off by hitting wing mirrors) and yet those same people are very quick to wash their hands of any responsibility when their actions instigate dramas for an innocent party.
While I agree that one must consider the concequences of one's actions, this can only be taken so far. Blaming a previous mirror clipper for a subsequent act is the same as saying that "speed was a factor". The mirror clip is one of many factors that may have contributed but it is at most a stressor; the primary factor is the state of mind of the driver. I agree that the previous mirror clip may form a part of the chain of events that leads to a violent act perpertrated on an innocent lane-splitter. However, to guarentee that no mirrors are clipped, ever, all lane-splitting must be ceased forthwith. Far better to put emphasis on the driver's state of mind. We exist, therefore we interact. That interaction wioll not always be positive. To quote another example: The way a girl dresses has been said in the past to be a factor in rape. This, quite rightly, has been denounced on numerous occasions. Only the rapist is responsible for their actions.

Notwithstanding the above I must also point out that I agree we should encourage new (or old) bikers to take ever precaution that is reasonable in any riding situation.

[Madness]

Notwithstanding the above I must also point out that I agree we should encourage new (or old) bikers to take ever precaution that is reasonable in any riding situation.

So now that you've compared other motorists to Nazis and rapists and the splitting biker has been aligned with the resistance movement in WW2 and an innocent young girl whose vagina smells of daffodils, you concede that people need to be careful. It's not about guaranteeing that no mirror is clipped ever again, that's just being silly. It's about the irresponsible mindset that so many lane-splitting bikers seem to hold; "no damage was done, it's only paint" - there's more to it than that. Bottom line is it's not your fucking mirror so don't fuck with it.

Tomorrows discussion: Not taking things too literally, it is the internet after all.

[FJRider]

The way a girl dresses has been said in the past to be a factor in rape. This, quite rightly, has been denounced on numerous occasions. Only the rapist is responsible for their actions.



One might assume ... that a girl may have the freedom to dress (or drive) ... and expect that she has no unwanted contact with people she doesn't know. (personally or otherwise)

I think the law expects that too ...

To say such contact is not only possible ... but probably likely in the course of lane splitting ... is an admission lane splitting is wrong.

Or ... you gave an incorrect example ... so please try again.

[swbarnett]

"no damage was done, it's only paint"
Noone ever said that. What was said was "NO damage", not even paint. If paint was removed then this is something that needs to be dealt with by the rider.

[Madness]

Noone ever said that. What was said was "NO damage", not even paint.

You're dreaming, again.

[swbarnett]

To say such contact is not only possible ... but probably likely in the course of lane splitting ... is an admission lane splitting is wrong.
Or:

"To say such contact is not only possible ... but probably likely in the course of life ... is an admission living is wrong."

I'm not saying that such contact is "probably likely in the course of lane splitting". It's not. What I am saying is that it will happen, albeit infrequently, in the initial stages of learning to lanesplit.

Mistakes are an inevitable part of the learning process.

[FJRider]

Or:

"To say such contact is not only possible ... but probably likely in the course of life ... is an admission living is wrong."

I'm not saying that such contact is "probably likely in the course of lane splitting". It's not. What I am saying is that it will happen, albeit infrequently, in the initial stages of learning to lanesplit.

Mistakes are an inevitable part of the learning process.

I prefer close contact with just people I know personally ... is that wrong .. ???

[swbarnett]

You're dreaming, again.
Certainly not the way I understand it. Surely it's clear that removing paint goes beyond the definition of "no damage".

[Rhys]

I was think the other day when heading to work that on 2 lane roads (2 lanes in the same direction) if there was a way of separating cars better it would make it far safer and reduce driver aggro towards bikes when lane splitting
I know on SH1 north of waikane they have done a double white line to separate traffic
it would seam a logical and cheap ,room permitting, option ?



I'm curious what others think

[st00ji]

i dunno about wellington, but in auckland the approach to carparks seems to be 'jam as many spaces in as possible'

hence the lanes on the motorway are generally kept to a minimum.

still heaps of room for bikes though

[iYRe]

i dunno about wellington, but in auckland the approach to carparks seems to be 'jam as many spaces in as possible'

hence the lanes on the motorway are generally kept to a minimum.

still heaps of room for bikes though

dunno what motorway you're riding on, but in the last 20 years they have added extra lanes to most of them without actually increasing the width of the road.. either that or cars have gotten bigger..

[sinfull]

I think the designers and planners of our roads don't care what you think !

[leathel]

If they kept the surface smooth right out to the concrete barrier you could comfortably ride outside more in Auckland... Plenty of room out there for good stretches :)

[The Reibz]

I don't lane split as much as I used to, owning a wide bike is a disadvantage and I seem to clip wing mirrors alot more than I did on my 1000cc. In saying that, you don't buy a busa as a commuter.
The fans are constantly going when im splitting down the motorway. The frame heats up and you can feel it quite easily through thick pants. In jeans or shorts its like having a fan heater right next to your legs.

I split at a confortable pace but I always see other riders going way to fast and getting frustrated when they get stuck behind me. Would rather get to where im going with my bike "unfucked" than split to fast and end up having a accident.

One thing I have learnt about driving/riding in Auckland is everyone elses business/priorities are always higher than yours. It doesn't matter if your driving some whos having a heart attack to hospital, the guy that cuts you off at the lights has much more important shit to attend to...

[Voltaire]

Yes a wider median lane would be nice, however Len and Govt have no interest in fringe transportation like motorcycles and scooters, only cars and underground trains.

[BoristheBiter]

Yes a wider median lane would be nice, however Len and Govt have no interest in any transportation, only underground trains.

Fixed that for you

[Ender EnZed]

owning a wide bike is a disadvantage and I seem to clip wing mirrors alot more than I did on my 1000cc. In saying that, you don't buy a busa as a commuter.

Pussy! A "Busa" is not really any wider than any other bike, it's just about personal confidence while splitting.

[bosslady]

I really need to start lane splitting myself, it's just the feeling of claustrophobia that gets me, cars closing in ya etc. I think I might need to get a lesson with an instructor, if I can, to help me. You just can't live/commute in Auckland and not lane split, you just can't!

[Dragon]

I am happy to split at upto 40km in slow moving traffic ie pukura bay

If the traffic is moving at 60km I stay with it

Any other bikes splitting faster ill move in and let them past, however the last 3 times ive had another bike follow me though pukura bay ive left them behind opps

I refuse to split past on ramps or merging lanes as people don't look and my bike is to quiet/slow/small to get out of the way

I have split past 70-80km traffic at 100km before heading into wellington before the gourge, I wont lane split going up the gourge as again people don't look

However I don't like doing that often but thats my comfort level on the current bike

Just because I can split faster doesnt mean I should, and there has been one instance where I was splitting faster then my skill level and almost went up the back of a Triumph 675

Also some days I wont split at all just to keep my slow riding skills upto scratch

[Voltaire]

I lane split very cautiously these days, only if the traffic is moving very slow or stopped.
I lived in London in the late 80's early 90's and got quite proficient at lane splitting and lane discipline was better than here, I got knocked off one day on the South Circular by a car coming out of a side street, waved out probably, it was my own fault. BMW fairing saved me from any injury, that and the low speed.
I don't think you could get an instructor as its not legal to lanesplit as far as I know.......
I could never live over the shore and work in the city, used to work on Wairau road and the drive home took me nearly 1 1/2 hours, these days its 30 mins on a good day and an hour on a wet one. Ride carefully.

[swbarnett]

...its not legal to lanesplit as far as I know.......
Legal if the traffic is completely stopped or if you stay completely within the lane to the right of the vehicles you're passing.

In practice, don't be a dick and the cops leave you alone no matter where you are.

[Voltaire]

Legal if the traffic is completely stopped or if you stay completely within the lane to the right of the vehicles you're passing.

In practice, don't be a dick and the cops leave you alone no matter where you are.

Might have to go with the latter, although I'm sure motorists probably think anyone on a BMW RT lanesplitting is a dick :rolleyes:

Is that why guys/gals leave there RH indicator on to give the illusion of overtaking?

[Maha]

I really need to start lane splitting myself, it's just the feeling of claustrophobia that gets me, cars closing in ya etc. I think I might need to get a lesson with an instructor, if I can, to help me. You just can't live/commute in Auckland and not lane split, you just can't!

Yes you can, go for a ride at 3am :niceone:

[Gremlin]

Is that why guys/gals leave there RH indicator on to give the illusion of overtaking?
Covered the in endless lane splitting thread, but yes. You are overtaking the cars in the same lane. Other methods aren't legal.

[AndyR1]

Covered the in endless lane splitting thread, but yes. You are overtaking the cars in the same lane. Other methods aren't legal.

Well, two vehicles driving beside each other in the same lane is not legal even both are motorcycles !
Overtaking with not enough distance in each direction is not legal as well and I guess less than 70cm to the left or right is not enough !
Overtaking on the left side is not legal too.
For overtaking you have to use indicator - well if you are always moving left right left right would be interesting to see 3 flashes before you pass a car. This illusion is nice if you cross any of these lines and you have to !! It's just not allowed - basta!

All in all, even if the police tolerate it here mostly, in the event of a crash you are neither right nor is it a pleasure to be squeezed between cars and trucks.

Normally it's not even allowed if the traffic stops to drive between vehicles. It's called overtaking and if you have 2, 4 or more wheels the rules apply for all of us :weird:

[swbarnett]

Well, two vehicles driving beside each other in the same lane is not legal even both are motorcycles !
If the lane is wide enough, yes, this is legal. Look it up under lane sharing.


Overtaking on the left side is not legal too.
This is why to be legal you have to stay to the left of the dividing line.


Normally it's not even allowed if the traffic stops to drive between vehicles.
I think you'll find that the opposite is true.


Yes you can, go for a ride at 3am :niceone:
I've had to lanesplit even at 3am!

[AndyR1]

If the lane is wide enough, yes, this is legal. Look it up under lane sharing.

>>> Which lane is wider than 255cm - I know that lane sharing is not allowed in Europe - if it's allowed in NZ regarding the rest of the world, well that would be new to me if it's true !!!

This is why to be legal you have to stay to the left of the dividing line.
>>> Not in the same lane with me - keep distance at least 150cm!

I think you'll find that the opposite is true.

>>> Driving between standing or driving vehicles on motorways is not allowed in Europe for sure - if it's allowed in NZ regarding the rest of the world, well that would be new to me if it's true !!!

>>> Would be nice to know if I kick someone from his bike staying 50cm beside my car which fault it is...:weird:

[Ocean1]

>>> Would be nice to know if I kick someone from his bike staying 50cm beside my car which fault it is...:weird:

Well, if it helps then I can tell you that in my case I'd be blaming you. With the usual punctuation.

[AndyR1]

Well, if it helps then I can tell you that in my case I'd be blaming you. With the usual punctuation.

As long as the rules are just a guess from the most here I guess I would be blaming you: driving to close and not keeping the right distance, driving in the same lane, don't using indicator, dangerous driving....oh my oh.

Seems in NZ are different traffic rules than in other western countries! What I wrote above is LAW in Europe so I don't need to discuss about how I would see the case. What about here in NZ? Everything is different? Tell me...

[sketch]

I really need to start lane splitting myself, it's just the feeling of claustrophobia that gets me, cars closing in ya etc. I think I might need to get a lesson with an instructor, if I can, to help me. You just can't live/commute in Auckland and not lane split, you just can't!

its not as spooky once you start, unless you muff your light change then bang your just instant no mans land, or no ladies land in your case

[Madness]

Tell me...

I'll just stand on the sidelines here for a while thanks. Tell us Andy, where are you from?

[bosslady]

its not as spooky once you start, unless you muff your light change then bang your just instant no mans land, or no ladies land in your case

muff? light change? Im talking about splitting not filtering :P I need to practice but I get scaredy

[sketch]

muff? light change? Im talking about splitting not filtering :P I need to practice but I get scaredy

oh i thort they were the same thing, where you sneak up between the two lanes at the lights? or am i showing my ridiculous lack of bike lingo knowledge?


is splitting just in traffic? i dont much like doin that, first time i tried it some womble opened a door on me at 50 odd kms

but in saying that i still do it

[bosslady]

oh i thort they were the same thing, where you sneak up between the two lanes at the lights? or am i showing my ridiculous lack of bike lingo knowledge?


is splitting just in traffic? i dont much like doin that, first time i tried it some womble opened a door on me at 50 odd kms

but in saying that i still do it

filtering is basically getting to the front of a queue at the lights when the traffic is obviously at a stand still. Splitting is like, on the motorway riding between cars going the same way sometimes when they're stand still sometimes when they're going faster.. first time I tried lane splitting I clipped a side mirror.

[Madness]

I get scaredy

http://youtu.be/xOG1EYbp90k

[Ocean1]

As long as the rules are just a guess from the most here I guess I would be blaming you: driving to close and not keeping the right distance, driving in the same lane, don't using indicator, dangerous driving....oh my oh.

Firstly, most of those "guesses" are a lot closer than your largely illiterate and ill-informed opinion.

And secondly, in the above case I can assure you that the local constabulary, when they arrived at the scene would be of exactly the same opinion as me: the blame for any accident lies with the party last able to effectively avoid it. I doubt they'd bother with minor traffic infringements, though in the face of the far more tempting litigation available for those that use a vehicle as a weapon.

In short, you'd be fukt.


Seems in NZ are different traffic rules than in other western countries! What I wrote above is LAW in Europe so I don't need to discuss about how I would see the case. What about here in NZ? Everything is different? Tell me...

Indeed. I'm astonished at your shock at this apparent revelation, I'd have thought someone as well traveled as you claim to be would have noticed that different countries tend to have different laws. For your further illumination in this regard I can reveal to you that, in fact no European country has the same traffic laws. Not even those relating to lane splitting.

Oh, and if, as I suspect you remain unconvinced then I suggest that you fuck off back from hence you came and break a few of those European rules you know so well to find out exactly how little the locals care about how you see the case.

Fuckwit.

[AndyR1]

I'll just stand on the sidelines here for a while thanks. Tell us Andy, where are you from?

Germany...

[Voltaire]

Well..... In Spain I observed that to turn left ( across the median strip) on a county road they pullover to the right and use a slip road that turns into a cross road intersection.
With an overtaking lane the slow vehicle has to 'give way' at the merging end....often stop.
In France, vehicles coming out of a side road have the right away.
The French are very keen on following closely behind you.
The Portugese and the Spanish make it up as they go.
I counted 100 horse and carts in a hour in Romania, not sure if they have rules there.
That was 10 years ago, it might be different now.
My guess Andy is German.:rolleyes:

[AndyR1]

Firstly, most of those "guesses" are a lot closer than your largely illiterate and ill-informed opinion.

And secondly, in the above case I can assure you that the local constabulary, when they arrived at the scene would be of exactly the same opinion as me: the blame for any accident lies with the party last able to effectively avoid it. I doubt they'd bother with minor traffic infringements, though in the face of the far more tempting litigation available for those that use a vehicle as a weapon.

In short, you'd be fukt.



Indeed. I'm astonished at your shock in this regard, I'd have thought someone as well traveled as you claim to be would have noticed that different countries tend to have different laws. For your further illumination in this regard I can reveal to you that, in fact no European country has the same traffic laws. Not even those relating to lane splitting.

Oh, and if, as I suspect you remain unconvinced then I suggest that you fuck off back from hence you came and break a few of those European rules you know so well to find out exactly how little the locals care about how you see the case.

Fuckwit.

Good to know - so take care about the mad Germans :devil2:

Always happy to let you pass...

[AndyR1]

Well..... In Spain I observed that to turn left ( across the median strip) on a county road they pullover to the right and use a slip road that turns into a cross road intersection.
With an overtaking lane the slow vehicle has to 'give way' at the merging end....often stop.
In France, vehicles coming out of a side road have the right away.
The French are very keen on following closely behind you.
The Portugese and the Spanish make it up as they go.
I counted 100 horse and carts in a hour in Romania, not sure if they have rules there.
That was 10 years ago, it might be different now.
My guess Andy is German.:rolleyes:


Right guess :first:

And I guess each country have it's on driving habits and I guess we can all adjust :drinknsin

Even driving close to 100 on the motorway makes me :sleep:

And you are right there are lots of details you will observe in France where bikes driving with 130 nearly slalom on the motorway around each car...if it's tolerated :niceone:

The guys in Sweden drives pretty quick even during winter times but having spikes in their tires which is :no: in most other countries as well.

Even NZ have some interpretations of rules which are new for me - looking at your funny "give way" rules where some people are still so confused :baby: But I can handle that :rolleyes:

[bosslady]

If you don't like our rules why did you move here?

[AndyR1]

If you don't like our rules why did you move here?

Where do you read I don't like them. I just questioning them and don't agree completely. It really doesn't matter if I like them or not, rules are rules and should be followed more or less. I can't change them anyway but I can adjust and I can decide for myself which behaviour on the street is reasonable and which not :baby:

What will change if I move here or even not - well your economy needs to import few engineers more again - that's all.
:Offtopic:

[bosslady]

Where do you read I don't like them. I just questioning them and don't agree completely. It really doesn't matter if I like them or not, rules are rules and should be followed more or less. I can't change them anyway but I can adjust and I can decide for myself which behaviour on the street is reasonable and which not :baby:

What will change if I move here or even not - well your economy needs to import few engineers more again - that's all.
:Offtopic: I didn't read that you don't like them, but you sure are whinging a lot about them which would indicate that you don't like them.

[scumdog]

I didn't read that you don't like them, but you sure are whinging a lot about them which would indicate that you don't like them.

Farrrrkk! - he sounds just like all the whinging Kiwis on KB! (Of which we have a lot you may have noticed)

They moan about speed limits,
They moan about 'cagers' and their driving styles,
They moan about Harley-Davidsons and those that ride them,
They moan about furrinners whinging about NZ laws...<_<

[Tigadee]

I really need to start lane splitting myself, it's just the feeling of claustrophobia that gets me, cars closing in ya etc. I think I might need to get a lesson with an instructor, if I can, to help me. You just can't live/commute in Auckland and not lane split, you just can't!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF6P7K3FQwg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ed_qbSJsg4

[Tigadee]

http://youtu.be/xOG1EYbp90k

Meh, that's porn music for Hannibal... :laugh:

[sketch]

Seen two sides of this today. On my way to work in the workvan was stopped in traffic and a huge bike think it was a bmw looked like a goldwing, anyway it was huge came lane splitting barely moving and having to be so active to avoid mirrors and I thought to myself what a knob end. If ya guna ride a bike as big as a car then play like a car. On my afternoon ride I went past a cop as i was splitting up the middle at a set of lights n he didnt seem to mind

[st00ji]

dunno what motorway you're riding on, but in the last 20 years they have added extra lanes to most of them without actually increasing the width of the road.. either that or cars have gotten bigger..

hence my post / referring to motorways as carparks. cars have gotten bigger too, no question :)

[Captain_Salty]

Enjoy the opinions of our fellow road users http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=1265363&topic=5

[steve_t]

Enjoy the opinions of our fellow road users http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=1265363&topic=5

LOL. Sultana0 sounds like a retard

[bosslady]

Thanks for the troll.

[Subike]

What I read in that was the ignorance of the majority to the road code, even the basics.
And these people drive the roads every day?
No wonder our roads are so dangerous to ride.

[Tigadee]

Wow, their opinionated ignorance is mind boggling!

[bosslady]

guess which post is mine?! and I don't even split haha. Tigadee maybe you can help me one day???

[Subike]

guess which post is mine?! and I don't even split haha. Tigadee maybe you can help me one day???

oh oh oh I know, !!!! :eek::eek::eek::eek:

[Tigadee]

guess which post is mine?! and I don't even split haha. Tigadee maybe you can help me one day???

Sorry, I can't do the split - not since my Bolshoi Ballet Company days...

If you're talking about lane splitting, maybe one day you can spot a motorcycle rider (who looks like he knows what he's doing) lane-splitting safely and not too fast, and follow him.

It should be easier following someone competent/safe and well, he can spot any dangers before you can and all you need to do is concentrate on the lane-splitting/following and less on the traffic? Then when you get the hang of it, you can do it on your own.

[bosslady]

Sorry, I can't do the split - not since my Bolshoi Ballet Company days...

If you're talking about lane splitting, maybe one day you can spot a motorcycle rider (who looks like he knows what he's doing) lane-splitting safely and not too fast, and follow him.

It should be easier following someone competent/safe and well, he can spot any dangers before you can and all you need to do is concentrate on the lane-splitting/following and less on the traffic? Then when you get the hang of it, you can do it on your own.

I've tried that they go too fast for me

[bluninja]

I've tried that they go too fast for me I tried following lane splitters on the way up to London, but I couldn't keep up at 130 kmh!! Now I rarely lane split as the car mirrors in NZ seem to be bigger and able to hit you as you lane split.

[Tigadee]

I've tried that they go too fast for me

Oh... <_<

OK no worries, let's do more of that car park exercise simulating lane-splitting then. :yes:


I tried following lane splitters on the way up to London, but I couldn't keep up at 130 kmh!!

130kph?! :eek5:


Now I rarely lane split as the car mirrors in NZ seem to be bigger and able to hit you as you lane split.

Yeah, and the mirrors here shoot lasers and are barb-wired too... :no:

[bluninja]

Oh... <_<

130kph?! :eek5:



Yeah, and the mirrors here shoot lasers and are barb-wired too... :no:

My regular 105 km commute was up the M3 to Lndon. The cars would be doing 100-115 (it was bit congested), the bikes splitting at 10-15 kmh more. In 3 years I saw only 2 bikes down....1 splitting at low speed that cut in front of car and clipped his back wheel on the bumper (low speed). One that split between the outside lane and the median barrier that panic braked and stoppied before falling over the top ( under 50 kmh).

[Voltaire]

Nice that automatic box steering peeps have a place to whinge too.:laugh:

[PrincessBandit]

I've tried that they go too fast for me

Follow me then...

[redhat]

Enjoy the opinions of our fellow road users http://www.trademe.co.nz/Community/MessageBoard/Messages.aspx?id=1265363&topic=5

"What a tard!"
- alpinestar (91) 6:40 pm, Wed 22 May #51

...

Yeah, probably was a motard. :niceone:

[strandedinnz]

On my ride to work I always filter past the same few bikes (some L-plated some not) on Great North Road, they are always just sitting in the queue, I get so tempted to tap them on the shoulder and encourage them to follow to show how it's not that scary if you pay attention :-)

Of course I think the first time I do that Murphys Law will kick in and either I'll rip off a wing mirror or they'll stack it putting them off for life! :-)

[leathel]

for some strange reason there seams to be a few bikers posting on that TM linked page.... :bleh:

I opted for the stealth approach and didn't mention I ride bikes so they may read the info :laugh:

[Zippo]

On my ride to work I always filter past the same few bikes (some L-plated some not) on Great North Road, they are always just sitting in the queue, I get so tempted to tap them on the shoulder and encourage them to follow to show how it's not that scary if you pay attention :-)


I actually saw a biker do this for another on my way to work. He waved for the other biker to follow behind. It was a touching sight!

There was another forum that I was reading about lane splitting from a cager’s perspective and it was mind-blowing. They hate us (because they're jealous, I like to think). Real eye opener and it’s forced me to be more cautious about riding around cars.

[Katman]

Here's an idea....

Perhaps those who are desperately seeking to encourage other motorcyclists to lane split should mind their own business.

There are clearly many motorcyclists who are quite comfortable sitting in traffic or not sufficiently confident to give lane splitting a go.

They should be left to manage their own motorcycling experience at their own rate.

[Zippo]

No loop hole same over taking rules apply its illegal as,And rude,they think they own the road and do what they want,be warned if you are sneeking up the side dont expext me to give way,As I wil just carry on way in my 4x4 and if you get knocked off your bike trying to push in or you pull in front of me at lights,Expect to be hit as I dont tolerate this from bikes.

quicksale4u (564 ) 10:35 am, Thu 23 May #104


^ This guy is super scary :mellow:

[strandedinnz]

Here's an idea....

Perhaps those who are desperately seeking to encourage other motorcyclists to lane split should mind their own business.

There are clearly many motorcyclists who are quite comfortable sitting in traffic or not sufficiently confident to give lane splitting a go.

They should be left to manage their own motorcycling experience at their own rate.

Aaaaand all the fun and good feeling just left the room ..... :-(

[Swoop]

Filtering through Auckland's wonderful weather last night and a bouncy-castle was filtering along at a rather slow pace. He still manages to hit a fucking truck wing mirror!:nono:

He quickly got back in the line of traffic. Thankfully.

[Tigadee]

...and a bouncy-castle was filtering along at a rather slow pace.

"Bouncy castle"? :scratch:

[Swoop]

"Bouncy castle"? :scratch:
MX style. Long legs and rather bouncy springs on the suspension.

[Zippo]

MX style. Long legs and rather bouncy springs on the suspension.

I initially pictured a guy wearing a super puffy Kathmandu jacket.

[Ocean1]

Perhaps those who are desperately seeking to encourage other motorcyclists to lane split should mind their own business.

I thought that was possibly the single most hypocritical comment I've ever read.

And then I saw this:


They should be left to manage their own motorcycling experience at their own rate.

Which confirms you as the all time champion hypocrite.

Congratulations.

[Subike]

hence my post / referring to motorways as carparks. cars have gotten bigger too, no question :)

Cars have gotten bigger, you jest,
the cars on the road today are no where near as wide as hose that were on the roads in the 50's and 60's.
Fwark, name a saloon availabile today that can seat 5 across the front bench seat like a 60 Tank Fairlane could.
Name a car that is so wide, the interior mirrow is off set from the center of the car so the driver can see it, like a Dodge Kingsway.
And if you thin A Holden Statesman Deville is a big car, then you have never seen a Chevy Biscayne or a Pontiac larention...
Now if you were talking trucks...thats a different story

[Katman]

I thought that was possibly the single most hypocritical comment I've ever read.

And then I saw this:



Which confirms you as the all time champion hypocrite.

Congratulations.

Something of a fail there I'm afraid.

Nowhere have I ever tried pushing any motorcyclist into putting themselves in a position they're not comfortable with.

If you think "stop riding like a fuckwit" is the same as "stop being a homo and start lane splitting" you're more of a fucking retard than I've ever given you credit for.

Keep trying though dickhead.

[Tigadee]

MX style. Long legs and rather bouncy springs on the suspension.

Ah! I see, thanks!:laugh:

[Ocean1]

Something of a fail there I'm afraid.

Well at least that's a comment backed up by your very own personal expertise.

Which is more than any comment you feel the need to make about anyone else's riding.

Fuckwit.

[bosslady]

now now ladies...!

[MarkH]

Everyone that hasn't seen this video should watch it:
http://youtu.be/JNGD9AAIfFU

Everyone that has seen it should watch it again.

For those that don't lane split and are nervous about doing it - try when the traffic is really slow and go just ~10kph faster than the stopped or barely moving traffic.
The more you lane split the more you get the hang of it.
Sitting in the lane and not splitting is silly and worse it is dangerous, you are SAFER splitting when the traffic really slows down than staying where some retard may rear end you.

[Madness]

Sitting in the lane and not splitting is silly and worse it is dangerous, you are SAFER splitting when the traffic really slows down than staying where some retard may rear end you.

Congratulations, that's the single most retarded KB post I've read this week.

[Katman]

Congratulations, that's the single most retarded KB post I've read this week.

You beat me to it.

[Voltaire]

I rode around Taupo at rush hour a few weeks back, lane splitting is probably not ever needed there. :innocent:

[Swoop]

I rode around Taupo at rush hour a few weeks back, lane splitting is probably not ever needed there. :innocent:

Taupo has traffic?
Taupo has roads?

[Voltaire]

Taupo has traffic?
Taupo has roads?

C'mon...where else would a motorcycle safety guru learn so much.....:blink:

[Gremlin]

Taupo has traffic?
Taupo has roads?
Taupo is even big enough for a bypass!

[Katman]

C'mon...where else would a motorcycle safety guru learn so much.....:blink:

Fours years couriering in London.

[st00ji]

Congratulations, that's the single most retarded KB post I've read this week.

can i ask why you think its retarded?

subike - you are right, i didnt cast my thoughts back far enough. i guess because all those cars were made before i was born :) i was mainly considering the way most stuff has grown since the 80s within the same model (ie compare an 80s corolla to a brand new one)

out of interest, has anyone seen or heard of a bike accident as a direct result of lane splitting? stories please

[Katman]

can i ask why you think its retarded?


Can you point to any part in the post that isn't retarded?

[Voltaire]

Fours years couriering in London.

:not:

4 years, I tried it for a week when the building trade crashed in 1991..... then got a job as a mobile A/C service engineer on a Z550, mainly in the West End and City...... three lane roundabouts were the ones I liked the least.... :wacko:

[Madness]

can i ask why you think its retarded?

Really?

To suggest that "sitting in the lane and not splitting is silly and worse it is dangerous" is retarded and the statement itself is obviously flawed. This will give noobs the impression that they're "doing it wrong" by sitting in a queue of traffic and has the potential to push them beyond their abilities and into a dangerous situation.

The fuckwits on the video that MarkH posted are relying on some study done in USA Circa 1981 and a more recent % comparison of accidents involving motorcycles being rear-ended by cars in three different US States. Where's the comparison on accidents where bikes are side-swiped, cut off or simply lose it an go under? Where are the numbers to back up the percentages? Notice how wide the lanes are in the video? Notice it's unlike any motorway in Auckland where car drivers are hellbent on sudden lane changes and very little indication? The video strikes me as being made as some kind of lobbying tool for those states where splitting is illegal and I fail to see it doing their cause much good it was so bad.

I'm not anti lane-splitting. It is not safer than simply occupying a lane amongst traffic and should be executed with caution.

[Tigadee]

You can sit in a lane sandwiched between cars and make sure to be vigilant of the car behind you [is the driver paying attention or texting/reading/adjusting the AC or radio?] or you can lane-split/filter but be vigilant of any cars that may cut you up.

It is a choice and one that any rider should make based on their level of skill and alertness aka situational awareness. These exercises (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7519C354CACBF142) are very good for honing the mind-set needed to develop situational awareness. More road safety tips HERE (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC062163835B4F220).

[Swoop]

Taupo is even big enough for a bypass!

The place is improving.

[MarkH]

Congratulations, that's the single most retarded KB post I've read this week.


You beat me to it.

These 2 posts seem pretty darned retarded to me - this is a discussion forum and neither posts contribute any discussion.



To suggest that "sitting in the lane and not splitting is silly and worse it is dangerous" is retarded and the statement itself is obviously flawed. This will give noobs the impression that they're "doing it wrong" by sitting in a queue of traffic and has the potential to push them beyond their abilities and into a dangerous situation.

The fuckwits on the video that MarkH posted are relying on some study done in USA Circa 1981 and a more recent % comparison of accidents involving motorcycles being rear-ended by cars in three different US States. Where's the comparison on accidents where bikes are side-swiped, cut off or simply lose it an go under? Where are the numbers to back up the percentages? Notice how wide the lanes are in the video? Notice it's unlike any motorway in Auckland where car drivers are hellbent on sudden lane changes and very little indication? The video strikes me as being made as some kind of lobbying tool for those states where splitting is illegal and I fail to see it doing their cause much good it was so bad.

I'm not anti lane-splitting. It is not safer than simply occupying a lane amongst traffic and should be executed with caution.

This posts is 100x better - actually sharing opinions and discussing the subject.

The truth is that I don't actually know the statistics in NZ for accidents during lane splitting vs being rear-ended while staying in your lane.
Maybe I only feel safer splitting, maybe my judgement is clouded because I've been rear ended when in a car and wish that I'd been on a bike so I would have had somewhere to go - I did see the ute in my rear view and knew he was going to hit me, if I had any room in front of me then I would have given him more space to stop.
I've also been in a position to ease off my brakes to provide more gap to the vehicle behind be that was locked up and starting to slide sideways - that could have been another rear-ending.

I've had one or 2 close calls while splitting but I've felt more in control and able to take action to avoid a collision.
While in a car I've always felt helpless and at the mercy of the skills of the driver behind me.
Maybe I'm wrong to back my skills over those of the random fucktards I share the road with.

I welcome you posting the stats to counter what those guys on the video were saying - there is nothing wrong with more/better information.
You clearly believe they are wrong - are you able to back up your opinions in any way?
I'm happy to change my mind when faced with evidence that what I think is wrong.

[Madness]

These 2 posts seem pretty darned retarded to me - this is a discussion forum and neither posts contribute any discussion.

This posts is 100x better - actually sharing opinions and discussing the subject.

I'm so pleased I'm meeting your post standards ya fucking princess.


The truth is that I don't actually know the statistics in NZ for accidents during lane splitting vs being rear-ended while staying in your lane.
Maybe I only feel safer splitting, maybe my judgement is clouded because I've been rear ended when in a car, blah blah blah

Maybe to all of those things, I don't really care. What basis do you have to claim that lane splitting is safer than sitting in traffic other than how you feel and your experiences of driving cars? Fuck all.


I've had one or 2 close calls while splitting

No shit?


I welcome you posting the stats to counter what those guys on the video were saying - there is nothing wrong with more/better information.
You clearly believe they are wrong - are you able to back up your opinions in any way?
I'm happy to change my mind when faced with evidence that what I think is wrong.

Sorry princess but you're the one making claims, how about you back those up? It's not a case of putting up stats to prove three fuckwits from USA are wrong. Their stats were probably correct for what they were - it's the claim being made as a result of their interpretation of flawed data.










Fucking scooter riders :facepalm:

[st00ji]

well shit, everyones personal experience is anecdotal, and stats and studies can be interpreted in 50 different ways. so ultimately it comes down to your personal interpretation doesnt it?

making out like everyone else is a retard because they dont believe the version of events that you do is a bit blinkered.

i certainly feel safer splitting on my bike than i do sitting in traffic, particularly stop start stuff. 4 or 5 years of daily commute, i might have done 30 or 40 days in a car. been rear ended twice while i was at a dead stop in those car trips, not particularly badly but if i had been on my bike and acting like i car, i'd have been fucked.

at least splitting my destiny is in my own hands. sitting stopped in traffic is trusting other drivers more than i care to on two wheels.

[Madness]

well shit, everyones personal experience is anecdotal, and stats and studies can be interpreted in 50 different ways. so ultimately it comes down to your personal interpretation doesnt it?

All of that is hardly fact and the statement made was erroneous.


making out like everyone else is a retard because they dont believe the version of events that you do is a bit blinkered.

Letting bullshit statements go unchallenged is a bit soft-cock. It was and still is my opinion that the statement was retarded, what's your problem?


i certainly feel safer splitting on my bike than i do sitting in traffic, particularly stop start stuff. 4 or 5 years of daily commute, i might have done 30 or 40 days in a car. been rear ended twice while i was at a dead stop in those car trips, not particularly badly but if i had been on my bike and acting like i car, i'd have been fucked.

I'm real happy for you, honest.


at least splitting my destiny is in my own hands. sitting stopped in traffic is trusting other drivers more than i care to on two wheels.

You carry on believeing that, just don't try & convince others it's a matter of fact.

[wysper]

at least splitting my destiny is in my own hands. sitting stopped in traffic is trusting other drivers more than i care to on two wheels.

All personal opinion of course.
But I think you are at the mercy of others far more when splitting than when in the line.
In the line you are at the mercy of the one car behind you. (excluding something coming up a million miles an hour and taking out more than one car)

When you are splitting/filtering, you seem to be at the mercy of every vehicle you pass (one on each side) and every vehicle you approach.

That sounds more dangerous to me than waiting in line. You may feel you have more control - but to me, looking from the outside, it doesn't appear so.

I am not anti splitting or filtering, just looking at it from a slightly different angle.

[swbarnett]

All personal opinion of course.
But I think you are at the mercy of others far more when splitting than when in the line.
In the line you are at the mercy of the one car behind you. (excluding something coming up a million miles an hour and taking out more than one car)
You're forgetting about the car to either side that thinks where you are is an empty space. When travelling in line with traffic (especially on a small, quiet bike) you are not seen by all drivers. All some see is empty space and may try to change lanes in to it or brake in time to avoid hitting the car in front of you but not you.


When you are splitting/filtering, you seem to be at the mercy of every vehicle you pass (one on each side) and every vehicle you approach.
When you're splitting you're travelling faster than the traffic flow. This puts you in control. The choice of whether or not to take a gap is yours, not that of the drivers to either side of the gap. There is also the psycological aspect. A car driver is unlikely to try to change lanes when they know there's a vehicle in that lane large enough to be a threat. Thus travelling through the gap comes with a minimal risk of being sandwiched. And that risk can be managed by not taking gaps so narrow that you have no room to maneuvre if they do move over. How narrow that gap can be depends on your speed and the traffic speed. I've had drivers close the gap on me but I've either been going slow enough that a quick application of the brakes pulled me back out of harm's way or fast enough to accelerate out the front. I am very reluctant to split between two trucks because the time it takes to get through is too long to maintain an acceptable margin for error.


That sounds more dangerous to me than waiting in line. You may feel you have more control - but to me, looking from the outside, it doesn't appear so.
Appearances can be deceiving. Motorcycling looks extremely dangerous to those that haven't tried it and don't know any riders. This doesn't mean it is.

[st00ji]

Letting bullshit statements go unchallenged is a bit soft-cock. It was and still is my opinion that the statement was retarded, what's your problem?

You carry on believeing that, just don't try & convince others it's a matter of fact.

for sure, bullshit statements should not be left unchallenged - which is why i questioned your unsupported, blanket statement. obviously we should just assume that everything you say is correct and leave it at that? you should be the prime minister or something.

the hypocrisy is quite amusing.

on what basis is it 'retarded'? what is your 'fact' based on? the comments about discussion made above were quite valid i thought.

i agree completely with what swbarnett has just posted, hence why i choose to split.

as a wise man once said to me, listen to everyone then make up your own mind.

edit - having re-read your posts all at once you are obviously trolling. yawn.

[Katman]

as a wise man once said to me, listen to everyone then make up your own mind.

A wiser one once said "think before opening your mouth".

[st00ji]

A wiser one once said "think before opening your mouth".

thanks for that contribution.

[Madness]

for sure, bullshit statements should not be left unchallenged - which is why i questioned your unsupported, blanket statement. obviously we should just assume that everything you say is correct and leave it at that? you should be the prime minister or something.

the hypocrisy is quite amusing.

on what basis is it 'retarded'? what is your 'fact' based on? the comments about discussion made above were quite valid i thought.

i agree completely with what swbarnett has just posted, hence why i choose to split.

as a wise man once said to me, listen to everyone then make up your own mind.

If lane-splitting is safer than riding in the queue then why isn't the practice taught to learners as part of the licencing system? The simple fact that you and a few others think it's safer to ride with 500mm or so between you & other vehicles than it is to ride with several metres gap does not mean splitting is safer. Mr Branett is one of the biggest fuckwits on this forum who thinks it's quite acceptable behaviour to clip the wing mirrors of other vehicles so it surprises me not that he agrees with you & MarkH the scooter rider.

Again, what facts are the claims that splitting is safer based on? I'm yet to see anything other than that lame video, the opinion of a scooter rider and some spotty oik on a 250. Hardly fucking science, innit?

You can have your opinion, cherish it for all I care. Lane splitting is not safer than riding in the queue and to believe otherwise is pure fantasy.

Retards.

[st00ji]

your entire position is based on opinion, same as mine. so you go ahead and cherish your opinion too i guess?

i dont see how what we ride has anything to do with our ability to observe and draw conclusions based on those observations.

i'd love to see stats or studies either way on the subject. i've asked for peoples stories about lane splitting accidents elsewhere too. i cant say i have ever seen any bikers go down as a result of splitting myself.

please change my mind about this with some actual discussion, calling me a retard is not working.

edit - its possible mr barnett is 'biggest fuckwit', i cant say i've noticed much else he has posted. i was endorsing one post, not his entire existence.

[Katman]

i cant say i have ever seen any bikers go down as a result of splitting myself.



You're clearly not looking hard enough.

[st00ji]

i dont think Lane splitting is safer than riding in the queue and in my opinion to believe otherwise is pure fantasy.

fixed that for ya

[st00ji]

You're clearly not looking hard enough.

all i touch and all i see, is all my life will ever be.

nowhere have i said it doesnt happen. just that i havent seen it / heard of it.

feel free to enlighten me.

[Madness]

please change my mind about this with some actual discussion, calling me a retard is not working.

edit - its possible mr barnett is 'biggest fuckwit', i cant say i've noticed much else he has posted. i was endorsing one post, not his entire existence.

I can't be arsed changing your feeble mind. You seem to have formed the opinion that I'm simply trolling so why the fuck would I bother?

You'll figure it out eventually, I just hope the damage isn't too life-altering.

I wasn't suggesting you're fucking Mr Branett, just explaining why I choose to discount his posts on this subject as the self-assuring dribble that it is.

If you didn't realise already, all sccoter riders are sub-human.

[Madness]

I bet these fuckwits thought splitting was safer too...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/_GH8D2EqDZs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nRlVZXIrV-Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qB2j45GLEdk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/V2qAMHI44zY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rRzjKOUX6RE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Madness]

fixed that for ya

Pretty fucking obvious I never typed that - I know how to use capital letters.

Dumb cunt.

[st00ji]

no doubt they did. they all failed pretty handily also.

katman will no doubt be along presently to point out all their shortcomings. every single one of those incidents was avoidable if the rider had been more observant and thoughtful in their approach. one guy hit a car that was indicating for christs sake. each one was the fault of the rider IMO, not caused by inherent unsafeness in lanesplitting.

like the original video with the 'american fuckwits' or whatever, at least the choice was theirs.

[Madness]

each one was the fault of the rider IMO, not caused by inherent unsafeness in lanesplitting.

But lane-splitting is safer so surely those vids must be computer generated? The riders did have a choice, to ride like fuckwits or not. Not one of them was "in control" as you & Mr Branett profess to feeling while you lane-split. Maybe you should offer others training, 4 years of riding & all - you must have the most unfuckinbelievable skills.

[Katman]

no doubt they did. they all failed pretty handily also.

katman will no doubt be along presently to point out all their shortcomings.

Why would I bother?

You've made the point quite nicely already.

[Erelyes]

I bet these fuckwits thought splitting was safer too...

#1 was doing, what, 50, when traffic was doing 5? They left themselves no time.
#2 was what we call a 'freak' accident, and resulted in minor damage.
#3 was doing, what, 35- 40, leaving themselves more time than #1, which is probably why it was 'no damage'
#4 was testing the limits and found them, again in a minor way.
#5 was plain dumb, and was that even splitting? Just seems like a dumb passing move. They should have known the car would move right in response to the bike passing it on the left. I read that even before the hit.

I think you've proved your point that splitting is more dangerous, but I think it is by such a slim fraction that if you lose sleep over it you may as well stop riding tbh.

Sure it's not for beginners (tho I do the odd slow split through stopped traffic, confident with that after a couple thou KM) , neither is riding a supersport.

[Madness]

if you lose sleep over it you may as well stop riding tbh.

Rest assured, I sleep like a corpse.

[swbarnett]

If lane-splitting is safer than riding in the queue then why isn't the practice taught to learners as part of the licencing system?
Lane-splitting can be safer than staying in traffic when done with the appropriate levels of skill and respect (for the risks, not for the other drivers; although that certainly doesn't hurt). Rank novices have neither. I agree with those here that say that riders should not be encouraged to lane-split before they are ready.


The simple fact that you and a few others think it's safer to ride with 500mm or so between you & other vehicles than it is to ride with several metres gap does not mean splitting is safer.
No argument here.


Mr Branett is one of the biggest fuckwits on this forum who thinks it's quite acceptable behaviour to clip the wing mirrors of other vehicles
I had a feeling you'd completely missed the point of that other thread.


Again, what facts are the claims that splitting is safer based on?
I can only speak for myself but my asertion is not that lane-splitting IS safer than sitting in line with traffic. It is that it CAN be as safe or better if done with an appropriate level of skill and respect.

[Madness]

I had a feeling you'd completely missed the point of that other thread.

Funny, I thought the same about you. Clipped many lately?

I'll give you credit for this though (just a smidge)...


I can only speak for myself but my asertion is not that lane-splitting IS safer than sitting in line with traffic. It is that it CAN be as safe or better if done with an appropriate level of skill and respect.

Maybe you did get the point of that other thread after all?

[swbarnett]

Funny, I thought the same about you. Clipped many lately?
Not a one. Since January I have a commute of about 120km return on Auckland's motorways.


Maybe you did get the point of that other thread after all?
Nah, if I remember rightly I don't think this exact point ever came up. Although I can't be certain.

[st00ji]

out of interest madness, do you commute on your bike?

either way, dont you feel like riding a bike while behaving like a car gives you all the disadvantages of a car with none of the benefits?

[Berries]

out of interest madness, do you commute on your bike?

either way, dont you feel like riding a bike while behaving like a car gives you all the disadvantages of a car with none of the benefits?
I think you are missing the point. He is not saying that he doesn't split, just that he does not believe that new and inexperienced riders should be encouraged to do something because it is 'safer' than sitting in the traffic. While a number of people are saying they have been rear ended in traffic when stationary does anyone really believe an inexperienced rider should be encouraged to squeeze between two lanes of moving traffic? I agree with you, if I was going to sit in traffic I would get a car and have the heat, the radio, the comfort etc etc. What is the point of a bike in town otherwise? But to encourage people who are still learning the ropes to do something that puts them at far greater risk than sitting with the traffic is, as Madness has said a number of times, retarded.

[st00ji]

im not missing the point, im just trying to get him to expand on his opinion.

i wish he would have posted something like what you just did TBH, mostly its just been expletives and stirring.

[Berries]

He has tourettes.

[MarkH]

Sorry princess but you're the one making claims, how about you back those up? It's not a case of putting up stats to prove three fuckwits from USA are wrong. Their stats were probably correct for what they were - it's the claim being made as a result of their interpretation of flawed data.


Fucking scooter riders :facepalm:

Sorry dude, you are a fuckin' idiot and your arguments lack merit so I'll just leave you to believe what you like.
I posted something that may or may not be true - I know I don't have any stats or evidence to back it up.
But your idea that something that can't be proven (even though it might be true) is retarded makes me think that you lack critical thinking skills.
Also your blathering on about bullshit statements and then trying to suggest that the style of my bike means anything in terms of any point in this thread - yeah, why do I want to argue with someone like you?
There is a huge difference between discussing a subject in a reasonable manner with things like "can you back up that claim, I'm dubious" and just rude posting "that's retarded".

And posting some youtube videos of people fucking up?
Wow - that is really retarded!
Do you really think that it is not possible for every person reading this thread to go to youtube and search for "motorbike rear ended"?
There are a bunch of videos of bikes stopping in the lane and getting rear ended and there are a bunch of videos of bikes lane splitting and crashing - this proves nothing either way.

My position is not that I'm certain that I'm right and you are wrong, it is only that I might be and that the assertion that lane splitting is definitively more dangerous lacks proof too.
Certainly it is easy to lane split in a dangerous manner and be at great risk, but most riders could lane split safely and within their skill limits if they wanted to.
If someone only splits when the traffic is moving at under 10kph and rides no more than 10kph above the speed of the other traffic then the risks are pretty low.

For those that don't feel comfortable splitting - I would advise to at least keep an eye on the traffic behind you when you stop within your lane and be prepared to move into the gap between 2 cars if there is a car approaching from behind that will not be able to stop. Nose to tail accidents are far from rare on the motorway. My experience with being rear ended was that I saw it coming and if I'd been on a bike I would have been able to move to avoid it - trust no fucker and always be wary.


I'll amend my original statement to:
Though there are dangers in lane splitting there are also dangers in stopping within your lane, splitting isn't necessarily the most dangerous choice.
Clearly there are many variables and you should always ride within your limits and do your best to keep safe.

So, does anyone have a problem with this point of view that wants to discuss it in a polite and respectful manner?

[Madness]

I posted something that may or may not be true - I know I don't have any stats or evidence

Who's the idiot again?


I'll amend my original statement to:
Though there are dangers in lane splitting there are also dangers in stopping within your lane, splitting isn't necessarily the most dangerous choice.
Clearly there are many variables and you should always ride within your limits and do your best to keep safe.

Nice to see you've pulled your head in. If you want a polite and respectful discussion on a subject try not to post utter drivel in future.

Fuckwit.

[yod]

:girlfight:

it's the KB way :lol:

[Tigadee]

I was splitting this morning when a car suddenly decided to switch lanes. Thanks to scanning like a Cyclon, caught his movement and smoothly swung around him. Then slowed down to give him a cold hard stare and pointy accusatory finger. :nono: I was riding slightly faster than traffic and had an indicator on.

I think when splitting one has to practice the opposite of scanning while riding fast - When riding fast, you look far (12 secs ahead rule) and then scan closer to you, but when filtering, you look near and then ocassionally scan far out. So priority is what's close to you first 'cos what's far out won't affect you as much as as when you're riding fast.

Also, I do believe avoidance is better than trying to stop suddenly. If I had tried to stop suddenly in a panic, this car which is obviously not observant may not stop on time before side-swiping me, in which it would push me over and if still not stopped, then crushed my wheels and maybe me. In swerving around him/her, I avoid touching the car and as cars eventually will stop swerving once in their target lane, you are clear. (It's not like they're trying to run you off the road Mad Max-style.)

So go at a sensible speed, scan constantly, don't panic and DO avoid, not braking in wild panic. You can't always see the driver or his/her eyes/face but like us and our motorbikes, the car itself telegraphs the desired action of the driver, thus indicating a possible or likely direction and movement of the car.

[Berries]

I was splitting this morning when a car suddenly decided to switch lanes. Thanks to scanning like a Cyclon, caught his movement and smoothly swung around him. Then slowed down to give him a cold hard stare and pointy accusatory finger. :nono: I was riding slightly faster than traffic and had an indicator on.
Not aimed at you so don't take this the wrong way, but if I was that car driver I would be giving you the wagging finger back. There are two vehicle lanes, I'm in one, the car next to me is in the other. You don't have a lane therefore the onus is on you to keep out of trouble because you are not exactly following the road rules. If there is a gap next to me and I can quite clearly see that there is a gap then I might move in to it. I might not. I might indicate. I might not.

For all the bluster on here about what is legal and what isn't it all comes down to staying upright. if you are doing something that a car driver would not expect, like splitting or filtering, then you shouldn't expect them to see you. If you want them to see you then stick yourself in the middle of the lane and ride like a car. If you want to get where you are going and use a bike as intended then go for it, but ride like a Cyclon and don't blame anyone else if it all goes wrong. You are where a driver won't expect you to be.



Sent from my pulpit using 4G preaching technology

[swbarnett]

If there is a gap next to me and I can quite clearly see that there is a gap then I might move in to it. I might not. I might indicate. I might not.
Just what I was thinking. Because of this very thing I am extremely weary of gaps in the line of traffic. When splitting I move in to these gaps whether the car in the other lane has moved or not. That way if they do I'm already in a position to easily avoid them.

[Katman]

Not aimed at you so don't take this the wrong way, but if I was that car driver I would be giving you the wagging finger back.

Mine wouldn't be wagging.

[Tigadee]

Mine wouldn't be wagging.

*Must... not... ask...* :shutup:


Not aimed at you so don't take this the wrong way, but if I was that car driver I would be giving you the wagging finger back.

Not taken in the wrong way, no worries. Maybe... I certainly didn't give him/her the middle finger, I didn't think it was warranted. It was more a reminder for him/her to check his/her mirrors. Had I not been alert, I'd have been on the ground for sure.


There are two vehicle lanes, I'm in one, the car next to me is in the other. You don't have a lane therefore the onus is on you to keep out of trouble...

Fully agree with you there.


If you want them to see you then stick yourself in the middle of the lane and ride like a car.

I disagree there. Sticking yourself in the middle of a lane makes you invisible to cars ahead of and behind you on the left or right.

If in the left lane of a two lane road/motorway, you should be in the right tyre track of the car in front and if in the right lane, you should be in the left tyre track. What drivers will see is you and/or your headlight and know that there is no gap there. From in front and behind, it will look like there is a gap for them to sneak into if you're in the middle.

Besides, there's lots of dropped oil in the middle of the lane...


For all the bluster on here about what is legal and what isn't it all comes down to staying upright. If you want to get where you are going and use a bike as intended then go for it, but ride like a Cyclon and don't blame anyone else if it all goes wrong.

Totally agree.

[DP1512NZ]

I ride through standing traffic on Auckland motorways every day to and from work. I ride safely and to the conditions wearing a high viz vest and with my hazard lights on. Yesterday a motorcycle cop stopped me and said I was speeding at 50kmph. He told me that the Road Code is that there is a 45kmph limit for bikes riding through standing traffic. He was reaasonable about my minor infraction and let me off as I said I was unaware of this restriction and was riding in what I considered a safe and legal manner.

I have emailed the NZTA asking them for the official question to these questions as I can’t find any relevant information on the NZTA website at http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/motorcycle-road-code/index.html

Is it permitted to ride through standing traffic?
Is a specific speed limit restriction, other than the compulsory applicable speed limit ?
Do I need to have my hazard warning lights on?

I’ll let you know what they come back with, if anything.

Does anyone what a similar experience or know the official line on riding through standing traffic, getting it wrong could be very costly for the daily commute.

Cheers
DP1215NZ

[bosslady]

I ride through standing traffic on Auckland motorways every day to and from work. I ride safely and to the conditions wearing a high viz vest and with my hazard lights on. Yesterday a motorcycle cop stopped me and said I was speeding at 50kmph. He told me that the Road Code is that there is a 45kmph limit for bikes riding through standing traffic. He was reaasonable about my minor infraction and let me off as I said I was unaware of this restriction and was riding in what I considered a safe and legal manner.

I have emailed the NZTA asking them for the official question to these questions as I can’t find any relevant information on the NZTA website at http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/motorcycle-road-code/index.html

Is it permitted to ride through standing traffic?
Is a specific speed limit restriction, other than the compulsory applicable speed limit ?
Do I need to have my hazard warning lights on?

I’ll let you know what they come back with, if anything.

Does anyone what a similar experience or know the official line on riding through standing traffic, getting it wrong could be very costly for the daily commute.

Cheers
DP1215NZ
Was that near an on-ramp heading north? I saw a motorcycle cop pull over two bikes there yesterday. 60kmh is fast through standing traffic isn't it? less time to react if some tard say, opens their door etc. I dunno.

[unstuck]

I thought it was illegal to drive/ride with your hazards on.:wacko:

[BoristheBiter]

:facepalm:

Oh good god , here we go again.

He didn't give you ticket so take the advise and move on.

[unstuck]

Auckland motorway riding lost it,s appeal for me when they got that damn Eagle.:devil2:

[Monkfish]

I like Splitting threads. :jerry:

[nzspokes]

There on BMWs. Any decent bike will drop them in second gear.....

[Akzle]

holy fuken lack of search, robin.

[Swoop]

Standing traffic much safer, the fuckers don't get to change lanes without indicating/"flash and go", etc, etc.
I discovered the Southern <STRIKE>Motorway</STRIKE> Carpark is particularly bad for this type of behaviour.

Sounds like another "rule" has been dreamed up by Mr Plod.

[Runt]

I've been lane splitting for 35 years - which includes 10 years despatch riding/couriering - I've never hit the deck while lane splitting,and still "split" through hundreds of cars every week - probably hundreds every workday in fact
I have my own "rules" which don't necessarily match those of the law - but have kept me alive with all my limbs attached for well over a million km.
I never indicate while lane splitting - but always do when actually lane changing or merging - If Mr bored car driver spots your indicator 2 cars back he's more likely to assume you are just changing lanes rather than coming through.
When there is a gap in the traffic ahead - don't speed up! -slow down! (or at least be ready be ready to) - cars see a gap and then suddenly pull across, But when they are bumper to bumper - they can only cross lanes slowly.
Keep the revs up - (but not obnoxiously so) - just enough so you'll have power on tap if you need a quick surge when someone does start to turn into you.
When a car ahead starts to move across - then sh!ts himself when he spots you ... don't beep and hurl abuse etc ...wave him through, he's more likely to look first in the future .... and he won't be thinking .... "effing bikers... I should have just hit him"
Don't be scared of trucks! - but don't start to split by them when you cant see its clear and straight all the way, Truckers are usually fairly good drivers ...get into their mirror view and they'll often wave you through when they can see its clear and you can't.
Don't use breakdown lanes - seems to piss people off - and don't pass on the left of a single lane even when the gaps twice as big as the gap on the right- 90% of left turning traffic won't look at all - and probably half won't even indicate. (Some exceptions to this of course - if you are turning left ahead or if the lanes are merging- but do use the indicators in these cases)

And ... every now and then maybe once or twice a month .. you just get a feeling you shouldn't take a perfectly safe looking gap - you may never know why - and there may actually be no reason... but back off anyway .... you're picking up a dodgy signal without it registering in the frontal lobes (driver twisting his head prior to swerving?? alien invasion in the clouds??? oily refection on a puddle??? who knows?? - but trust your gut)
Well ..... thats my first post - I'll try again in another 35 years

[Juniper]

I've been lane splitting for 35 years - which includes 10 years despatch riding/couriering - I've never hit the deck while lane splitting,and still "split" through hundreds of cars every week - probably hundreds every workday in fact
I have my own "rules" which don't necessarily match those of the law - but have kept me alive with all my limbs attached for well over a million km.
I never indicate while lane splitting - but always do when actually lane changing or merging - If Mr bored car driver spots your indicator 2 cars back he's more likely to assume you are just changing lanes rather than coming through.
When there is a gap in the traffic ahead - don't speed up! -slow down! (or at least be ready be ready to) - cars see a gap and then suddenly pull across, But when they are bumper to bumper - they can only cross lanes slowly.
Keep the revs up - (but not obnoxiously so) - just enough so you'll have power on tap if you need a quick surge when someone does start to turn into you.
When a car ahead starts to move across - then sh!ts himself when he spots you ... don't beep and hurl abuse etc ...wave him through, he's more likely to look first in the future .... and he won't be thinking .... "effing bikers... I should have just hit him"
Don't be scared of trucks! - but don't start to split by them when you cant see its clear and straight all the way, Truckers are usually fairly good drivers ...get into their mirror view and they'll often wave you through when they can see its clear and you can't.
Don't use breakdown lanes - seems to piss people off - and don't pass on the left of a single lane even when the gaps twice as big as the gap on the right- 90% of left turning traffic won't look at all - and probably half won't even indicate. (Some exceptions to this of course - if you are turning left ahead or if the lanes are merging- but do use the indicators in these cases)

And ... every now and then maybe once or twice a month .. you just get a feeling you shouldn't take a perfectly safe looking gap - you may never know why - and there may actually be no reason... but back off anyway .... you're picking up a dodgy signal without it registering in the frontal lobes (driver twisting his head prior to swerving?? alien invasion in the clouds??? oily refection on a puddle??? who knows?? - but trust your gut)
Well ..... thats my first post - I'll try again in another 35 years


Wow I actually entirely agree. Those are all rules that I have thought of myself as every now and then I attempt it. Or am stuck in my car and see others go past.
I also stay in lower gear because someone said that noise saves lives when I complained that my modified pipes were too loud for me.

I think for the first wee while commuting (when she's feeling better again) I will wear that dorky Fluro vest. Just until I am more confident that I can get out of stick situations. , that and going slow. As a driver, and a bad one at that, they do actually make a difference. Along with those bullet light things. I still ride like they haven't seen me tho, and tbh drive better too.

When I see proper riders coming up behind me I always move aside as soon as I can. It's not their fault I'm a learner.

[strandedinnz]

Well ..... thats my first post - I'll try again in another 35 years

Nice first post :-)

But I'm sure some here will find fault with you ;-)

[rastuscat]

Dear God

Here we go again.

The Popos do not enforce the Road Code. They enforce legislation.

The legislation does not make reference to filtering, lane splitting, small furry animals or a variety of other things that the Road Code mentions. 2 second rule? No mention of that in the legislation. It's covered by the legislation on following distances, which is enforced by the Popos, but it's not the Road Code.

The Road Code is an attempt to translate the 10 million various bits of legislation into a form that can be understood by the motoring public. It's necessary and very useful, but it's not the law, and isn't enforcable.

If you want to see what the law says, don't go to the Road Code. Go to the legislation.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM302188.html?search=ta_act%40regulation_L_ac%40r c%40ainf%40anif%40rinf%40rnif_an%40bn%40rn_25_a&p=3

Right, rant settling down.

Navigate to the bits about passing, sections 2.6 to 2.11. They cover passing on the left, passing on the right, and passing stationary vehicles.

Ultimately, even if you think that what you are doing is legislatively okay, you have to do it in safety. This is a purely subjective judgement. Fair to say that when a motorway is blocked up and stationary, flying down the gap between lanes at 100 kmh (not exceeding the speed limit) is still a bad idea, and could be categorized as


Unsafe passing manoeuvre
(Infringement = $150)
Land Transport Act 1998, s.40 & Offences & Penalties Regs 1999, r4 & 2.6(1)(a) Road User Rule 2004
Maximum fine = $1,000, Maximum prison = 0, Minimum disqualification = 0, Notice type = N/T
Being a driver of a vehicle on a road did [1 pass] another vehicle moving in the same direction when the movement could not be
made with safety

I'm not sure where the 45km/h reference came from, I can't find it.

Please don't search for the Holy Grail answer to whether filtering or lane splitting is legal or not. The answer will always be that it depends entirely on the circumstances as they relate to the legislation. And then it becomes a dreadfully subjective judgement as to what is safe or not.

I'm in Christchurch, and we don't have a real motorway. I'm not sure how they enforce it up North in Orkers. What I can say is that most weeks we deal with moped, cyclists and motorcycle riders who have been filtering or lane splitting and who are about to win an ACC funded trip in an ambulance because they did. Yes, normally it is the fault of the numpty who changed lanes without indicating, or turned without checking. But the taxpayer finded trip in the ambo is still largely avoidable by the rider being a bit more defensive.

Ho hum, haven't posted in a while. Donuts.

[Swoop]

I'm not sure where the 45km/h reference came from, I can't find it.

Donuts.
I suspect that "someone" has made a personal judgement and is deciding to quote this number when dealing with 2-wheeled members of the public...

It's all about riding to the conditions. (What is it with BMW drivers though?)

[strandedinnz]

I (What is it with BMW drivers though?)

They are just taking up the slack due to the lack of Volvo drivers in this country.

[Akzle]

Dear God...

What I can say is that most weeks we deal with moped, cyclists and motorcycle riders who have been filtering or lane splitting and who are about to win an ACC funded trip in an ambulance because they did. Yes, normally it is the fault of the numpty who changed lanes without indicating, or turned without checking. But the taxpayer finded trip in the ambo is still largely avoidable by the rider being a bit more defensive.

ambos are largely user pays, no wait. entirely user pays. so too are firefolk,
...y'know the kinds of people that help people and stuff.

it's only cops that are fully government funded and do fuckall for the community/society/NZ peoples.
except take money and make them scared of he government.
:niceone:

[swbarnett]

... moped, cyclists and motorcycle riders who have been filtering or lane splitting and who are about to win an ACC funded trip in an ambulance because they did.
This is far too simplistic. Nobody gets in to strife just because they lane-split. They get in to strife because they push too far beyond their current skill set. No matter what they're doing.

[BoristheBiter]

[COLOR="wanker"]
ambos are largely user pays, no wait. entirely user pays. so too are firefolk,
...y'know the kinds of people that help people and stuff.

Can you show me where some one got charged for calling the fire brigade as there house was on fire?

[rastuscat]

it's only cops that are fully government funded and do fuckall for the community/society/NZ peoples.
except take money and make them scared of he government.

Come on Azkle, you can do better than that.

[Akzle]

Come on Azkle, you can do better than that.

am i obliged to? Doesnt your kind celebrate mediocrity?
At any rate. Cops are dicks until proven otherwise.
You... I rank at 70-80% dick.

[Juniper]

ambos are largely user pays, no wait. entirely user pays. so too are firefolk,
...y'know the kinds of people that help people and stuff.


And on that note.

Please all note that it is St. John week this week. We are only partially govt funded and really do rely on the support from our communities. A lot of our "staff" you see out there are actually volunteers. From ambos, caring caller, friends of the emergency, medical alarms, the Youth programme, caring pets, trainnings and being present at things like rugby games and concerts.

If you donate your money we thank you profusely, that extra ambulance could be the one that gets to you or someone you know.
If you donate your time it means the world to us. Even in Youth we are under staffed and under pressure to support our communities through our kids.

Please do let me know if your interested.

[leathel]

Can you show me where some one got charged for calling the fire brigade as there house was on fire?

you get one call out for rubbish fires when the ban is on the next is charges here, Our local brigade is only partly funded, they have to fund raise to up the gear they need.

I was told the same deal with Commercial buildings

People do get charged for scrub fires if they can find who started it

[willytheekid]

...it's only cops that are fully government funded and do fuckall for the community/society/NZ peoples.
except take money and make them scared of he government.
:niceone:

Don't say that shit in ChCh mate...Our lot have gone above & beyond! for there community (But yeah...they do still revenue collect for..."THEM!!", but thats there job after all, and most of em down here are actualy very nice about it ;))

[Akzle]

you get one call out for rubbish fires when the ban is on the next is charges here, Our local brigade is only partly funded, they have to fund raise to up the gear they need.

I was told the same deal with Commercial buildings

People do get charged for scrub fires if they can find who started it

people get charged up the wazoo via insurance levies, rates etc.
Tbh, if YOU burn your pad down, the only people who turn up should be ones with marshmallows on sticks.

[Akzle]

Don't say that shit in ChCh mate...Our lot have gone above & beyond! for there community (But yeah...they do still revenue collect for..."THEM!!", but thats there job after all, and most of em down here are actualy very nice about it ;))

for free? Or were they being paid.
...By you.

[scumdog]

for free? Or were they being paid.
...By you.

But but but you said they did fuckall??

Maybe they just did a bit extra 'cos of the lavish overtime pay??:lol::rofl::whistle:

[Akzle]

But but but you said they did fuckall??

Maybe they just did a bit extra 'cos of the lavish overtime pay??:lol::rofl::whistle:

i also said they take money. Very jew.

Did they stop any looting?
Has the crime rate decreased? (ever, srsly)
has anyones 'illegal' behaviour changed?

No? I didnt thinkso. So we could almost double every working mans pay and do without the cunts. Innit.

[BoristheBiter]

i also said they take money. Very jew.

Did they stop any looting?
Has the crime rate decreased? (ever, srsly)
has anyones 'illegal' behaviour changed?

No? I didnt thinkso. So we could almost double every working mans pay and do without the cunts. Innit.

What the fuck would you know about the working man?

[BoristheBiter]

you get one call out for rubbish fires when the ban is on the next is charges here, Our local brigade is only partly funded, they have to fund raise to up the gear they need.

I was told the same deal with Commercial buildings

People do get charged for scrub fires if they can find who started it

But if you have a house fire do you get charged?

[leathel]

But if you have a house fire do you get charged?

Your insurance pays a levy

[scumdog]

i also said they take money. Very jew.

Did they stop any looting?
Has the crime rate decreased? (ever, srsly)
has anyones 'illegal' behaviour changed?

No? I didnt thinkso. So we could almost double every working mans pay and do without the cunts. Innit.

I see you use 'think' instead of 'know' - very telling...;)

Tell me, where this mythical place that has no cops but no crime, no looting and no 'illegal' behaviour that caused you to think like this??

And 'double' every working mans pay if there were no cops? - sheesh must be a lot off working men on $13,200 a year :crazy:

[willytheekid]

for free? Or were they being paid.
...By you.

By ME!?...god damn!:eek5:...I'm grossly under paying my staff!!:crazy: (No wonder they frisk me for donuts every time they stop me :lol:)

[Akzle]

I see you use 'think' instead of 'know' - very telling...;)

Tell me, where this mythical place that has no cops but no crime, no looting and no 'illegal' behaviour that caused you to think like this??

And 'double' every working mans pay if there were no cops? - sheesh must be a lot off working men on $13,200 a year :crazy:

the police budget is what?

Tell me, where is the place that has cops and no crime?

(my place has no cops and no crime, no niggers, either. Lots of guns and drugs though)

[st00ji]

the police do some retarded shit, but i personally would rather have them than not.

hate to imagine what life would be like if there was no drawback to getting together with your mates and going out looting / pillaging etc.

[Akzle]

the police do some retarded shit, but i personally would rather have them than not.

hate to imagine what life would be like if there was no drawback to getting together with your mates and going out looting / pillaging etc.

the drawback would be being shot by people like me,
without me worrying of crown reprisal or BS court tomfuckery.

[unstuck]

the drawback would be being shot by people like me,
without me worrying of crown reprisal or BS court tomfuckery.

Like the good old wild west, where the colt was judge and jury. And you could get likkered up and ride out and shoot up a few redskins without fear of being arrested, cos you is a better pistolero than the old sheriff.:ar15:


Me, I am glad we have lawmen, cos it keeps me on my toes.:shifty:

[Berries]

Me, I am glad we have lawmen, cos it keeps me touching my toes.:love:
Fixed that for you.

[Juniper]

Like the good old wild west, where the colt was judge and jury. And you could get likkered up and ride out and shoot up a few redskins without fear of being arrested, cos you is a better pistolero than the old sheriff.:ar15:


Me, I am glad we have lawmen, cos it keeps me on my toes.:shifty:

Hehe purrfect. +1

[Kendog]

I have followed bike cops who were lane splitting in on the Wellington motorway (without their lights or indicators going)

Surely that makes it legal?

[roogazza]

I have followed bike cops who were lane splitting in on the Wellington motorway (without their lights or indicators going)

Surely that makes it legal?

Hey Ken, I've been riding like that for 50 yrs and never had a problem and never been pulled for it. I think if you use your head ,do it reasonably safely, why not.
I've always travelled quicker that the flow of traffic, it's safer, works for me.
I'm always to the side of a lane at lights in case some fuck runs up my arse. Had that happen to a friend years ago, he's lucky to be here.

[MIXONE]

I have followed bike cops who were lane splitting in on the Wellington motorway (without their lights or indicators going)

Surely that makes it legal?

One morning going down the gorge I was at the back of a five bike convoy being lead by a cop on his beema.Splitting all the way in total safety.

[Sparky Mark]

One morning going down the gorge I was at the back of a five bike convoy being lead by a cop on his beema.Splitting all the way in total safety.

I've been in that situation too, I did put a post up about it at the time. So that's going to be my defence if I ever get challenged. But, as already suggested, if you're being sensible I think they generally don't worry. If you're not, then you probably deserve a talking to at the very least.

Somone was right on my tail on the motorway on Tuesday morning on the way in, I pulled in and let him pass and he kaned it through 60kph traffic like a lunatic weaving in and out. One driver had to swerve to the right thinking he had to avoid him. Sorry, but I've no sympathy for those riders and quite frankly would have loved to see him get a ticket.

[Ulsterkiwi]

Coming into Wellington this morning. Just after the merge of SH1 & 2 heading to the city. I was in the outside lane happily at 100/105kph. Traffic moving well but all the lanes pretty full.
This guy comes sailing through on a sport bike along the white paint separating lanes. Couple of the cars got nervous, I would call it slewing (less than a swerve). He must have been doing 110+ the rate he was passing cars.

I realise I am a noob, very lacking in experience but isnt that an accident waiting to happen and just pissing off car drivers? :(

[MIXONE]

Short answer "Yes".

[bosslady]

it's totally unnecessary to split at that speed imo so yes, accident waiting to happen

[The Reibz]

Welcome to motorcycling. There are some fucken dangerous nutmen out there, I am one of them from time to time.
Been up on the newmarket over bridge and the rebels came past splitting at like 140 and shit. Hats off to the cunts, because there is not way I could split at those speeds during the rush hour.

Had a downsyndrome kid leaning out a window last week at me yelling at me to give it some, so I split past him at fucks knows what speed. Dangerous, maybe. Atleast I made that kids day though

[Moi]

He must have been an very important person to have do that...

Only need one driver to be distracted and it's 'all over rover'...

Question for you: Did you enjoy your ride this morning?

[Ulsterkiwi]

He must have been an very important person to have do that...

Only need one driver to be distracted and it's 'all over rover'...

Question for you: Did you enjoy your ride this morning?

I most assuredly did, lovely day and there is no better way to come to work.

[EJK]

<img src="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=284996&stc=1&d=1373945537" />
<font color="1a1a1a">adfadfasdfasf</font>

[Maha]

Could have been Drew heading for an Internet Café'? :corn:

[oneofsix]

Have to agree that there isn't usually a reason to split at those speeds. If you haven't the patience to stay in lane at the limit in that situation then it wont be long before you have wrecked a good bike.

[Devil]

You say you were doing 100-105, and he was doing 110+? Doesn't sound like much of a differential to me. Not the end of the world.
I wouldn't normally do that unless there was a pretty good reason.
Speed limit is irrelevant. It's all about the conditions...

[Akzle]

what the fuck. don't we have an uber thread for this shit?

[Pomm4eva]

I've been lane splitting for 35 years - which includes 10 years despatch riding/couriering - I've never hit the deck while lane splitting,and still "split" through hundreds of cars every week - probably hundreds every workday in fact
I have my own "rules" which don't necessarily match those of the law - but have kept me alive with all my limbs attached for well over a million km.
I never indicate while lane splitting - but always do when actually lane changing or merging - If Mr bored car driver spots your indicator 2 cars back he's more likely to assume you are just changing lanes rather than coming through.
When there is a gap in the traffic ahead - don't speed up! -slow down! (or at least be ready be ready to) - cars see a gap and then suddenly pull across, But when they are bumper to bumper - they can only cross lanes slowly.
Keep the revs up - (but not obnoxiously so) - just enough so you'll have power on tap if you need a quick surge when someone does start to turn into you.
When a car ahead starts to move across - then sh!ts himself when he spots you ... don't beep and hurl abuse etc ...wave him through, he's more likely to look first in the future .... and he won't be thinking .... "effing bikers... I should have just hit him"
Don't be scared of trucks! - but don't start to split by them when you cant see its clear and straight all the way, Truckers are usually fairly good drivers ...get into their mirror view and they'll often wave you through when they can see its clear and you can't.
Don't use breakdown lanes - seems to piss people off - and don't pass on the left of a single lane even when the gaps twice as big as the gap on the right- 90% of left turning traffic won't look at all - and probably half won't even indicate. (Some exceptions to this of course - if you are turning left ahead or if the lanes are merging- but do use the indicators in these cases)

And ... every now and then maybe once or twice a month .. you just get a feeling you shouldn't take a perfectly safe looking gap - you may never know why - and there may actually be no reason... but back off anyway .... you're picking up a dodgy signal without it registering in the frontal lobes (driver twisting his head prior to swerving?? alien invasion in the clouds??? oily refection on a puddle??? who knows?? - but trust your gut)
Well ..... thats my first post - I'll try again in another 35 years

Too right brother. Reading this I got flashback of us fanging home to Southhall on the A40 in the wet in the dark splitting all the way. So Much Riding So Much Money!

[Runt]

Oh to be young dumb and immortal all over again

[caseye]

Hey Runt, before I can fix my fo par with the reputation I have to give some more about. My bad, hit wrong button.
Your post is probably the most sensible post I've ever seen on KB, well done and for goodness sake post a bit more often than every 35 years, please.

[Edbear]

This is a frequent topic on here with a lot of discussion around the practice. I have been out of the daily commute through Auckland traffic since my accident and rarely travel in during "rush hour" these days. :no:

However I had to attend a specialist in Greenlane at 9am this morning so had no choice but to drop Mrs. Bear off at work at 7am and continue into the dreaded queues. Almost exactly one hour later I was over the Harbour Bridge. :niceone:

There were many bikers filtering through, and whilst I acknowledge the very low number of reported accidents due to lane splitting, I was a bit taken aback at the speeds that many were doing. So many were going way too fast to ever have a hope of reacting to a sudden lane change by a car driver that I drove with some trepidation as to what I may come across further down the road.

Please guys, be aware that you are so easily knocked sideways or confronted with a rear bumper in a split second that you need to be able to react in time. This sort of behaviour does nothing to endear the biking community to the general public either and some consideration would go a long way to gaining the support and understanding of those restricted to a cage.

Remember it's not about your skill, it's about the variable skills of others that turns situations to custard. :Police:

[James Deuce]

Lecture them you can. Listen they will not.

[The Reibz]

And here comes another Edbear axeing thread...

[haydes55]

Split at a speed you feel safe at. If you crash, your perception of safe is wrong.

[Hoon]

I admit I sometimes split faster than I should. Once you reach the speed where you no longer have enough time to react should a driver suddenly swerve in front of you, then you are putting your safety entirely in the hands of other road users.

If a car doesn't see me, indicates and then changes lanes at a normal pace I'm OK because I'm looking out for them.
If a car doesn't see me, doesn't indicate and then changes lanes at a normal pace I'm still OK but a little rattled.
If a car doesn't see me, doesn't indicate and then changes lanes at a rapid pace then I'm toast.

I don't go this fast often. It's all about risk versus reward and minimising the amount of time spent in the danger zone. Sooner or later your number will come up and the more you play, the higher the likelihood of crossing "that" driver.

[Hoon]

Ohh an exception is when traffic is gridlocked or "moving but so congested that cars can't change lanes". In these situations I no longer worry about cars cutting me off so usually go as fast as I can get away with without freaking out car drivers or drawing too much attention to myself..

[Edbear]

I admit I sometimes split faster than I should. Once you reach the speed where you no longer have enough time to react should a driver suddenly swerve in front of you, then you are putting your safety entirely in the hands of other road users.

If a car doesn't see me, indicates and then changes lanes at a normal pace I'm OK because I'm looking out for them.
If a car doesn't see me, doesn't indicate and then changes lanes at a normal pace I'm still OK but a little rattled.
If a car doesn't see me, doesn't indicate and then changes lanes at a rapid pace then I'm toast.

I don't go this fast often. It's all about risk versus reward and minimising the amount of time spent in the danger zone. Sooner or later your number will come up and the more you play, the higher the likelihood of crossing "that" driver.

Yup, unfortunately number three is the norm for many car drivers, even my normal cautious self has come very close, like paint-thickness close, to colliding with such a driver. A young lady checking her cell-phone and didn't realise the cars in front of her had virtually stopped, so she panicked. :weird:


Ohh an exception is when traffic is gridlocked or "moving but so congested that cars can't change lanes". In these situations I no longer worry about cars cutting me off so usually go as fast as I can get away with without freaking out car drivers or drawing too much attention to myself..

Yup, that's exactly what happens. :msn-wink:

[swbarnett]

This is a frequent topic on here with a lot of discussion around the practice. I have been out of the daily commute through Auckland traffic since my accident and rarely travel in during "rush hour" these days. :no:

However I had to attend a specialist in Greenlane at 9am this morning so had no choice but to drop Mrs. Bear off at work at 7am and continue into the dreaded queues. Almost exactly one hour later I was over the Harbour Bridge. :niceone:

There were many bikers filtering through, and whilst I acknowledge the very low number of reported accidents due to lane splitting, I was a bit taken aback at the speeds that many were doing. So many were going way too fast to ever have a hope of reacting to a sudden lane change by a car driver that I drove with some trepidation as to what I may come across further down the road.

Please guys, be aware that you are so easily knocked sideways or confronted with a rear bumper in a split second that you need to be able to react in time. This sort of behaviour does nothing to endear the biking community to the general public either and some consideration would go a long way to gaining the support and understanding of those restricted to a cage.
Well said.


Remember it's not about your skill, it's about the variable skills of others that turns situations to custard. :Police:
Riding and staying alive is almost entirely about the rider's skill. The skill of others (or lack thereof) is of little consequence. This attitude is how I stay alive.


My wife, who also rides, was talking to the guy that came to fix our sliding door the other day. They came to the topic of lane splitting. It became apparent that by far the worst thing a splitting rider can do to our image with car drivers is get pissed off when they have to react to a driver doing something that would normally be perfectly fine except for the prescence of the splitter. If you split you're in a position of extreme privilege. Don't get pissed off at drivers for driving as if you weren't there. The fact of the matter is that we're hard enough to see at the best of times. Let alone when you're in close proximity to much larger animals.


BTW: I commute from Tuakau to the Auckland CBD and have done since January. When I split I'm not slow about it. I do, however, stay within my own ability to react when necessary (as have been proven on several occasions).

[swbarnett]

Ohh an exception is when traffic is gridlocked or "moving but so congested that cars can't change lanes". In these situations I no longer worry about cars cutting me off so usually go as fast as I can get away with without freaking out car drivers or drawing too much attention to myself..
How about someone opening their door?

[Juniper]

So this is my reply to lane splitting and commuting http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/entry.php/2851-Junipers-Guide-to-Commuting-101

[Akzle]

split like a fucking hero. on the rear wheel.

as far as i know, no-one's been snotted popping wheelies through traffic. so it's statistically safe.

[Kendoll]

split like a fucking hero. on the rear wheel.

as far as i know, no-one's been snotted popping wheelies through traffic. so it's statistically safe.

Fark yeah!! :Punk:

[Katman]

Particularly because I keep breaking my own damned rule by getting distracted while commuting thinking about what I could say here.

If you're getting distracted by thinking about what you're going to say on here I'd seriously suggest you leave your music earpieces at home.

[ital916]

If you're getting distracted by thinking about what you're going to say on here I'd seriously suggest you leave your music earpieces at home.

Personally, I believe riding with music is a good way to miss a lot of stuff that's happening around you, tires squeeling, engines revving, sires, horns, noises your own bike is making etc. Only thing I ride with in my ears are alpine ear plugs, the medium ones, so I can still hear the important stuff.

[Berries]

Personally, I believe riding with music is a good way to miss a lot of stuff that's happening around you, tires squeeling, engines revving, sires, horns, noises your own bike is making etc.
Dude, if that is the case then both your bike and your riding is fucked. Get a car.

[Juniper]

If you're getting distracted by thinking about what you're going to say on here I'd seriously suggest you leave your music earpieces at home.

Or how about I take a proactive view and write it down here thus stopping thinking about it.

And anyway that's what I have my music for it's a great way to turn that part of the brain off. (The part not used for riding..)


Personally, I believe riding with music is a good way to miss a lot of stuff that's happening around you, tires squeeling, engines revving, sires, horns, noises your own bike is making etc. Only thing I ride with in my ears are alpine ear plugs, the medium ones, so I can still hear the important stuff.

Errr I can hear all of that and more even with my music running and my custom made hearing protection in. You may want to get your hearing checked.


I strongly suggest hearing protection over just ear plugs. You only get your hearing once.

[ital916]

Or how about I take a proactive view and write it down here thus stopping thinking about it.

And anyway that's what I have my music for it's a great way to turn that part of the brain off. (The part not used for riding..)



Errr I can hear all of that and more even with my music running and my custom made hearing protection in. You may want to get your hearing checked.


I strongly suggest hearing protection over just ear plugs. You only get your hearing once.

Actually, I have amazing hearing, my last hearing check showed that. Also I don't ride with just ear plugs, I ride with specific motorcycle plugs designed to dampen the frequencies that are damaging and allowing a decibel range that is quiet enough to not damage hearing but also allow enough through to retain comprehension of the environment.

You're riding with music and ear plugs and you can still hear everything you need. I highly doubt it. Look I was just expressing an opinion, what I do know is I have seen enough friends and fellow riders crash and others have near misses, results of not paying attention and thinking they could get away with it.

[Juniper]

You're riding with music and ear plugs and you can still hear everything you need. I highly doubt it.



Errr I can hear all of that and more even with my music running and my custom made hearing protection in. You may want to get your hearing checked.


I strongly suggest hearing protection over just ear plugs. You only get your hearing once.

I wear hearing protecting not ear plugs. Mine are a lot like yours in that they allow certain sounds through and are specific to motor sports. Though mine are custom moulded and made so that I can also have conversations with them in. They take out white noise, wind volume, and along with the music allow me to NOT hear the ringing in my ears. Thus allowing me to concentrate AND hear everything that white noise, engine noise, my loveing pipes, wind volume and that damned ringing would otherwise cover up.

Check this guy out: http://www.acoustixhearing.co.nz/ He's absolutely great and after being to a few places now is helping me find the best protection I can have.

[James Deuce]

Well, I won't ride with people who listen to music while they ride. They don't learn the hard way.

[Katman]

And anyway that's what I have my music for it's a great way to turn that part of the brain off. (The part not used for riding..)


Which part of the brain would that be then?

[Akzle]

Which part of the brain would that be then?

something to do with the y chromosome...

[Juniper]

Which part of the brain would that be then?

Thats the part that dreams wistfully about you :innocent: it's dangerous to be swooning and riding at the same time. :love: It's also the part that judges and talks.

Opposed to the part that is scanning my environment while absorbing the data and analysing and acting upon it as quick as my reaction time allows, which is not something that you consciously process. Whilst still enjoying the road, the curves, corners, bumps, and the puuuurrrrr (and splutter) of my little Mao. And working on my lines.

[Maha]

I wear hearing protecting not ear plugs.

Everyone else calls that shit you put in your ears, Vaseline.

[Juniper]

Everyone else calls that shit you put in your ears, Vaseline.

Nah got new fancy ones now. Those ones were pissing me off and my hair was getting yucky and they were temperamental if it worked or not.

[haydes55]

Nah got new fancy ones now. Those ones were pissing me off and my hair was getting yucky and they were temperamental if it worked or not.










So no more going to the dairy in leathers, buying a tub of vas and a banana?

[Akzle]

So no more going to the dairy in leathers, buying a tub of vas and a banana?

this one time, this guy lost a bet, had to go to walart, buy a copy of 50 shades of grey, a cucumber, and a tube of KY. i think it got put on the internets.

[Bald Eagle]

And anyway that's what I have my music for it's a great way to turn that part of the brain off. (The part not used for riding )
.

Damn I must be doing it wrong I use all my brain for riding.

Sent from my LG-P768 using Tapatalk

[Maha]

this one time, this guy lost a bet, had to go to walart, buy a copy of 50 shades of grey, a cucumber, and a tube of KY. i think it got put on the internets.

Did you wear sunglasses during the purchase of said items?

[Maha]

Damn I must be doing it wrong I use all my brain for riding.



Most grown ups do, noobs will click onto the idea soon enough. :msn-wink:

[Kendoll]

Most grown ups do, noobs will click onto the idea soon enough. :msn-wink:

...but not before they've finished telling us all how to ride! :yes:

[James Deuce]

I've been waiting to be told what to listen to.

[Maha]

...but not before they've finished telling us all how to ride! :yes:

It's all part of the 'fitting in' process, some progress pass that stage quicker than others, once they realise that nobody cares, or in fact... listening.

[Madness]

I've been waiting to be told what to listen to.

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/LISTEN-TO-BLACK-SABBATH-T-shirt-Master-of-Reality-Paranoid-OZZY-Heavy-Metal-/00/s/MTAwMFgxMDAw/z/D~EAAOxyHntSXF1V/$T2eC16NHJFoFH5YDZ3UEBS(F1TMWew~~60_35.JPG

[James Deuce]

Oh, thanks!

[ital916]

It's all part of the 'fitting in' process, some progress pass that stage quicker than others, once they realise that nobody cares, or in fact... listening.

I'm amazed at how these young riders seem to amass instant motorcycling knowledge, straight after learning to ride. Like, they know everything about riding, it's bloody scary. I wish I knew their secret.

[Kathryn42]

I'm amazed at how these young riders seem to amass instant motorcycling knowledge, straight after learning to ride. Like, they know everything about riding, it's bloody scary. I wish I knew their secret.

Funny that.... I have wondered the same thing.
But then at 17 or so we were all ten feet tall and bullet-proof, were we not?
I drove a fug-box for two years before my first bike, and I think it helped as I did have some basic road-craft programmed in when I got on to two wheels.
One thing I do know for certain though, and that's that riding a bike made a much better car driver of me!

[Juniper]

I'm sure you all know how to suck your own eggs. I'll do mine this way for now, you never stop learning. Well I don't at least but I'm sure I'll find out that there is a 1 and only way in this whole world to suck an egg.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who can think of more than 1 thing at a time while commuting.


( :bleh: where's the shit stirring icon when you need it? :innocent: )

[Tigadee]

And here comes another Edbear axeing thread...

I thought he sold batteries, not axes?


I'm sure I'm not the only one who can think of more than 1 thing at a time while commuting.

You women can multi-task, didn't you know?

[ital916]

I'm sure you all know how to suck your own eggs. I'll do mine this way for now, you never stop learning. Well I don't at least but I'm sure I'll find out that there is a 1 and only way in this whole world to suck an egg.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who can think of more than 1 thing at a time while commuting.


( :bleh: where's the shit stirring icon when you need it? :innocent: )

I have one train of thought when riding at all times - where the bike is going in the next second, what could stop it from getting there, and how I would get around that if it occurred.

The last time I rode with someone who didn't follow that mentality, they ended up in a mountain side at 80 km/hr.

Scaremongering, nah, just reality when you're the second weakest link on the road in terms of survivability (vehicle wise, pedestrians don't count).

[Juniper]

You women can multi-task, didn't you know?

Hehe OMG we can?!?!? I was too busy breathing and cooking to think of that. :bleh:

[Kendoll]

You women can multi-task, didn't you know?

*sigh* why hasn't anybody told me this before?! I've been doing it wrong all this time :lol: still, to be honest, I find it hard to think about other irrelevant things when riding... which I reckon is a good thing!

[James Deuce]

*sigh* why hasn't anybody told me this before?! I've been doing it wrong all this time :lol: still, to be honest, I find it hard to think about other irrelevant things when riding... which I reckon is a good thing!

It's the whole point and nothing but the point. It's a brain defrag.

[Tigadee]

*sigh* why hasn't anybody told me this before?! I've been doing it wrong all this time :lol:

I never believed it myself: If flipping a burger on the barbie while drinking a beer while looking at a nice bike passing by isn't multi-tasking, I must be Superman then I reckon...

[Maha]

I never believed it myself: Flipping a burger on the barbie while drinking a beer while looking at a nice bike passing by is multi-tasking, I reckon...

You would have to be using the part of the brain that's not used for riding... to achieve that.

[Tigadee]

You have to using that part of the brain that's not used for riding to achieve that.

:eek5: My life has been a lie! :weep:

[Kendoll]

:eek5: My life has been a lie! :weep:

Hehe...technically if only women can multitask then it's a good thing you can't...there now, buddy :drinknsin