Lane splitting/filtering: the legal and commonsense answers

[Juniper]

Glad the traffic wasent too bad this morning. Was sitting behind/next to/ in front of a bike cop most of the way in. Tbh still find them unnerving.

[f2dz]

Glad the traffic wasent too bad this morning. Was sitting behind/next to/ in front of a bike cop most of the way in. Tbh still find them unnerving.

I've only split past a couple of motorcycle cops and they never seem to pay me any mind. Also had a chat to one during a rider training course I did last year. They seem like a good sort.

[newbie2012]

Met one in the a bike shop once and had a chat - Birmingham bloke who encouraged me to lane split as long as I stayed sensible and under 40kph. Said that he a few other police riders convinced some higher powers that alghough splitting is illegal, that it is safe at low speeds. Seems to hold true as coming in on the north western everyday, been past plenty of police vehicles and never had an issue. Also met some at rider training and they seem a good bunch. Hell, why wouldn't they be good guys, they get paid to ride bikes all day.

[Juniper]

Oooooo now that was creepy.

Splitting down my local motorway at probably 50-60km and glimpse a white helmet on the side if the road. Thought "Oh I just passed my first bike cop while splitting" and keep going.

Glance behind me and there he is. Splitting behind me. Boy did that slow me down to 40-50k!! Stayed behind me for a while then pulled into traffic when the spaces opened up and I just kept going.

Man that was unnerving!!

[Bald Eagle]

Well its simple really. There are two types of "lane splitters"
Type 1 filter considerately with minimal speed differential unlikely to incur caged wrath or revenue collector attention.
Type 2 Ride the lane line like Rossi wannabes with no consideration, likely to get cageer wrath, revenue attention and free Ambo ride in their inevitable future.
Easy choice.

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[James Deuce]

Well its simple really. There are two types of "lane splitters"
Type 1 filter considerately with minimal speed differential unlikely to incur caged wrath or revenue collector attention.
Type 2 Ride the lane line like Rossi wannabes with no consideration, likely to get cageer wrath, revenue attention and free Ambo ride in their inevitable future.
Easy choice.

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Type 2 get away with everything.
Type 1 end up wearing the fallout from Type 2's behaviour, getting tickets and rides in ambulances in exchange for being considerate road users. Type 2 spends a lot of time and energy laughing at Type 1's pathetic weeny-ness and can't understand what all the fuss about lane-splitting is.

[jms698]

(sorry to bring up yet another lane splitting thread, but this is a question I don't think has been covered yet)

When lane splitting on a motorway are you supposed to indicate continuously while riding between the lanes? Or, are you supposed to only indicate when moving out of and merging back into traffic? I've seen fellow riders do both. Some seem to indicate the continuously, others only indicate when moving between lanes. Which is the correct way to do it?

If you do continuously indicate, which direction do you indicate?
For example: riding the southern motorway in Auckland. 3 lanes: 1,2,3.

Example 1: you are in lane 2 and pull into the space between 2 and 3. You indicate right to move into that space. Do you keep indicating right the whole way down the gap?
Example 1: you are in lane 2 and pull into the space between 1 and 2. You indicate left to move into that space. Do you switch to indicating right while going down the gap?

[ptroy]

I don't indicate

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[Juniper]

(sorry to bring up yet another lane splitting thread, but this is a question I don't think has been covered yet)

When lane splitting on a motorway are you supposed to indicate continuously while riding between the lanes? Or, are you supposed to only indicate when moving out of and merging back into traffic? I've seen fellow riders do both. Some seem to indicate the continuously, others only indicate when moving between lanes. Which is the correct way to do it?

If you do continuously indicate, which direction do you indicate?
For example: riding the southern motorway in Auckland. 3 lanes: 1,2,3.

Example 1: you are in lane 2 and pull into the space between 2 and 3. You indicate right to move into that space. Do you keep indicating right the whole way down the gap?
Example 1: you are in lane 2 and pull into the space between 1 and 2. You indicate left to move into that space. Do you switch to indicating right while going down the gap?

I think people say indicate so you are not looking to be overtaking on the left.

[f2dz]

I usually split between the middle lane and the fast lane and indicate right the entire time to show that I'm overtaking the people in the middle lane, which is legal. Sometimes you have to cross over onto the left side of people in the fast lane which is technically illegal unless they're stopped but not much you can do about it unless you want to stop splitting.

If I'm merging back into a lane I indicate into that lane then cancel my indicator, eg. moving into the middle lane I change to indicating left then cancel it once I'm in the centre of the lane.

[McShanNZ]

I don't indicate

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I agree with ptroy - not that I have a lot of opportunity to filter, but my thought is if doing sub 40kp/h, passing to the right of the vehicle in front within the same lane, I can't see the need to indicate as you are not moving out of the lane into another.

Just a thought.

[f2dz]

I agree with ptroy - not that I have a lot of opportunity to filter, but my thought is if doing sub 40kp/h, passing to the right of the vehicle in front within the same lane, I can't see the need to indicate as you are not moving out of the lane into another.

Just a thought.

I believe you still have to indicate. Refer to this: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/motorcycle-road-code/about-riding/passing.html

Still counts as passing on the right which I think means you still have to indicate for at least three seconds before passing.

[newbie2012]

I do the middle/fast lane split with right indicator on, then indicate if going into middle lane or cancel indicator if move into fast lane. Always give a wave or couple of hazard flashes to thank car behind when pulled in, seems to keep everyone sweet. Guess whatever works for each of us.

[haydes55]

I do the middle/fast lane split with right indicator on, then indicate if going into middle lane or cancel indicator if move into fast lane. Always give a wave or couple of hazard flashes to thank car behind when pulled in, seems to keep everyone sweet. Guess whatever works for each of us.









Call me a weirdo, but I never have an indicator on unless I'm turning. When I see people over taking leaving their indicators on, I wonder if they are turning off mid overtake. You have indicated to enter the lane, once in the lane (legally speaking the right side of the left lane), you can switch it off as you no longer have to indicate a turn.

[MIXONE]

I was talking to a bike cop on the day of the Bikoi and he told me to keep my indicator on at all times while splitting.

[newbie2012]

Oooooo now that was creepy.

Splitting down my local motorway at probably 50-60km and glimpse a white helmet on the side if the road. Thought "Oh I just passed my first bike cop while splitting" and keep going.

Glance behind me and there he is. Splitting behind me. Boy did that slow me down to 40-50k!! Stayed behind me for a while then pulled into traffic when the spaces opened up and I just kept going.

Man that was unnerving!!

Comforting to know that they didn't ping you though. Thanks for being an unintentional live test case :-)

[McShanNZ]

I believe you still have to indicate. Refer to this: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/motorcycle-road-code/about-riding/passing.html

Still counts as passing on the right which I think means you still have to indicate for at least three seconds before passing.

Fair comment, good example too. Noticing the overtaking within the lane but not crossing the yellow line... I probably would wait that scenario out, then again I'm a patient fellow - not that you would get room to pass most cagers in said scenario I suspect.

[Juniper]

Comforting to know that they didn't ping you though. Thanks for being an unintentional live test case :-)

Haha yeah, thats why it was unerving!

[swbarnett]

Well its simple really. There are two types of "lane splitters"
Type 1 filter considerately with minimal speed differential unlikely to incur caged wrath or revenue collector attention.
Type 2 Ride the lane line like Rossi wannabes with no consideration, likely to get cageer wrath, revenue attention and free Ambo ride in their inevitable future.

Of course the real truth is that most riders are at some point between the two.

[swbarnett]

If you do continuously indicate, which direction do you indicate?
Both.

Helps to have a bike with hazard lights. Now that I've got them I can't understand why most bikes don't.

[newbie2012]

Of course the real truth is that most riders are at some point between the two.

+1 to that, especially in the eyes a other road users, even if we do not see it

[Busa11]

I was once pulled over for lane splitting. I was told had to put on indicators when changing lanes even if lane splitting and was told leaving on the indicator on one side is not legal nor is hasard lights on. I even beeen told cant change from the right lane to left lane as thats undertaking. I know passing on the shoulder is illegale.
looks to me ever cop just makes up the rules as he fells like on that particular day :brick:

[Swoop]

I usually split between the middle lane and the fast lane and indicate right the entire time to show that I'm overtaking the people in the middle lane, which is legal.

If I'm merging back into a lane I indicate into that lane then cancel my indicator, eg. moving into the middle lane I change to indicating left then cancel it once I'm in the centre of the lane.

+1.
One indicator (right hand) confirming that I'm overtaking the traffic to my left. Hazard lights are just going to confuse drivers.

[swbarnett]

Hazard lights are just going to confuse drivers.
Have you tried it?

I've used hazard lights for the past year on Auckland's southern motorway (120km round trip daily). The traffic has reacted very favourably. The drivers seem way more decisive than when I was splitting with only one indicator going.

[haydes55]

+1.

One indicator (right hand) confirming that I'm overtaking the traffic to my left. Hazard lights are just going to confuse drivers.







How is it different to leaving an indicator on whilst overtaking cars?

If you aren't changing direction, lanes or pulling over, what is the indicator indicating? If I was in a car and saw a bike just appear beside me then see it's indicating into my lane, I'd brake to allow them to merge with me. Then get pissed off that they were indicating to merge, and I was considerate and they weren't actually merging. Or if I was an aucklander, I would close the gap up with the car in front and block the bike from merging.

How do you indicate to merge then? Or do you have to merge to the left lane?

Indicating to go in a straight line is pointless, and stupid. Exception being round about where you indicate to exit.

[Berries]

If you aren't changing direction, lanes or pulling over, what is the indicator indicating? If I was in a car and saw a bike just appear beside me then see it's indicating into my lane, I'd brake to allow them to merge with me. Then get pissed off that they were indicating to merge, and I was considerate and they weren't actually merging. Or if I was an aucklander, I would close the gap up with the car in front and block the bike from merging.
Yes, the first thing I would think seeing a bike indicate while splitting/filtering was that the rider was a bit of a tool who had forgotten they were on. What exactly is being indicated by indicating? Sod all as far as I can tell. It is no different to people going straight on at a roundabout taking the second exit, who signal right on the approach. It is confusing to everyone around you and makes you look like a learner.

[swbarnett]

Yes, the first thing I would think seeing a bike indicate while splitting/filtering was that the rider was a bit of a tool who had forgotten they were on. What exactly is being indicated by indicating? Sod all as far as I can tell. It is no different to people going straight on at a roundabout taking the second exit, who signal right on the approach. It is confusing to everyone around you and makes you look like a learner.
I think the theory is that, even if the wrong message is given, harm is averted because the car drivers actually see you.

I prefer the combination of hazard lights and a loud pipe. I've found this to be a vast improvement on just a single indicator.

[haydes55]

I think the theory is that, even if the wrong message is given, harm is averted because the car drivers actually see you.



I prefer the combination of hazard lights and a loud pipe. I've found this to be a vast improvement on just a single indicator.









I get road rage at special needs monkeys who can't indicate properly (or at all). So they last thing I would want to do is potentially cause other road users to start raging at me.

If they can't see my bright headlight in their wing mirror, they won't see a flashing little indicator beside it. I'd rather just be invisible. Who cares if a car stuck in traffic can see you anyway? 99% of drivers won't see you til you're beside or in front of them. And of the 1% who see you, 10% will actively try block you or knock you off (cause people are arseholes). So personally I'd rather not be seen when splitting, leave my fate entirely in my own hands.

[James Deuce]

It's amazing how much easier a commute is in your undies, undies, undies, togs. People really notice a fat bloke in budgie smugglers and given my % rate for being knocked off, rather than falling off, I'm picking that no safety gear except for the mandatory helmet is safer than leather, carbon fibre, ABS plastic, impact foam and Kevlar (tm) fetishism. The weather's about right for it too.

[swbarnett]

If they can't see my bright headlight in their wing mirror, they won't see a flashing little indicator beside it. I'd rather just be invisible. Who cares if a car stuck in traffic can see you anyway? 99% of drivers won't see you til you're beside or in front of them. And of the 1% who see you, 10% will actively try block you or knock you off (cause people are arseholes). So personally I'd rather not be seen when splitting, leave my fate entirely in my own hands.
While in principle I agree with you, over the last year that I've been commuting from Tuakau to Auckland CBD (using hazard lights while splitting) I've not had one driver deliberatly try to block me. I've lost count of the number of vehicles (cars and trcuks - big ones) that have moved over to let me through when they see the hazards. The one and only problem I had was when I wasn't using harards (or any indicator) and let my mind wander while passing a gap - very close call and I thank the driver for reacting as I swerved past their front bumper.

[Swoop]

What exactly is being indicated by indicating? Sod all as far as I can tell.

A single indicator means you are overtaking another vehicle (which would be located on your left).
Hazard lights mean you are in distress, OR creating a hazard to others.

Not that kiwi drivers comprehend indicators and their uses (or red lights, or keeping left unless passing) either.:facepalm:

[haydes55]

A single indicator means you are overtaking another vehicle (which would be located on your left).

:





Wrong. A single indicator means you are moving out of your current lane.

You don't go down an over taking lane switching your right indicator on every time you go past a car on your left.

[swbarnett]

Hazard lights mean you are in distress, OR creating a hazard to others.
In that case there are a number of drivers that should have their hazard lights on permenantly.

[FJRider]

Wrong. A single indicator means you are moving out of your current lane.

You don't go down an over taking lane switching your right indicator on every time you go past a car on your left.

So ... you don't know either ... :killingme

Actually ...

Signals enable you to tell other road users that you are changing your direction or position on the road. Because of this, knowing when and how to give signals is a very important part of being a safe driver.

Drivers usually (sometimes/maybe/if they feel like it) signal using their indicators.


You must signal for at least three(full) seconds before you:

1. Turn left or right
2. Move towards the left or right (for example, when you pull back into the left lane after passing another vehicle)
3. Stop or slow down
4. Move out ... : from a parking space : to pass another vehicle :to change lanes.

The proper use of the indicators for overtaking ... is Prior to moving out from your lane. Not for the entire overtaking maneuver. Unless you intend turning during the course of the overtaking maneuver.

[Berries]

So ... you don't know either ...
So what you are saying is that it is not appropriate for splitting/filtering, which was the point of the post you are quoting.

Riding with hazard lights on is probably the best bet. People think you are on fire/broken down/fucking stupid and give you a wide berth. Until next time.

[swbarnett]

Riding with hazard lights on is probably the best bet. People think you are on fire/broken down/fucking stupid and give you a wide berth. Until next time.
I think I've disproven the "next time" theory. At least on my commute.

[FJRider]

So what you are saying is that it is not appropriate for splitting/filtering, which was the point of the post you are quoting.

Riding with hazard lights on is probably the best bet. People think you are on fire/broken down/fucking stupid and give you a wide berth. Until next time.

It was the purpose ... actually.

The thing about flashing lights (of any colour) is they attract attention. You get noticed ... by people that otherwise may not. Be it a Plod ... who may be having a slow day getting his quota ... and decides to follow and chat. Incorrect use of lights and indicators is an offense by the way (Signaling a turn when You are not turning). And remember that two second rule ... I'm sure Plod will remember.

And some cage dwellers don't like lane splitters ... if they notice you coming ... :shifty:

[more_fasterer]

The thing about flashing lights (of any colour) is they attract attention. You get noticed ... by people that otherwise may not.

That's the crux of it... I had a bike lanesplit past me when I was in the cage on the northern motorway, which had a flashing headlight - I suspect it had a separate flasher unit wired in. It was easily the most noticeable bike I've ever seen lanesplit this side of a bike cop in pursuit mode, and way more noticeable than a flashing indicator or hazards. I think I'm gonna have to look into just such a setup for my bike.

It was even more noticeable than someone wearing a hi-vis vest... WTF?!? :shit:

[strandedinnz]

I had yet another successful day of lane splitting through traffic .. I think if I sat in the queue from Albany to the city every morning I'd have lung cancer and my bike would have overheated and cooked my nads!
I regularly filter past police cars (marked and unmarked) and they don't seem to be interested at all, I guess if you don't do it at idiot speeds they are OK to ignore it.
I'm also a leave the indicator on person.

That said I do get a wee bit bored with kilometres of filtering, what do others do to occupy the rest of the brain ? I usually end up singing/whistling or slaloming through the cats eyes ;)

[Gremlin]

That said I do get a wee bit bored with kilometres of filtering, what do others do to occupy the rest of the brain ? I usually end up singing/whistling or slaloming through the cats eyes ;)
Keep your concentration on filtering, what the cars are doing, who is looking in their mirrors etc. Stop focussing and you're gonna go splat.

[James Deuce]

How can you get bored filtering? The workload is huge. If you're bored, as the Gremlin fella said, I'd be making sure my medical insurance and life insurance was up to date.

[actungbaby]

Well its simple really. There are two types of "lane splitters"
Type 1 filter considerately with minimal speed differential unlikely to incur caged wrath or revenue collector attention.
Type 2 Ride the lane line like Rossi wannabes with no consideration, likely to get cageer wrath, revenue attention and free Ambo ride in their inevitable future.
Easy choice.

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I dont never have well on few times i guess memory not that fantastic . in general am just type person that doesint like too.

Just think can wait mind you feck all traffic here as driven ridden in chch Lived Auckland enjoyed the excitment pammy dam boring monkey

chould drive here.

I surpose in crowed banked up auckland trafice i whould but as 1. in the list but to me it bad manners to give impression u think above others.

Just me not saying thats how think others should be , am werid i know just how i roll

[f2dz]

That said I do get a wee bit bored with kilometres of filtering, what do others do to occupy the rest of the brain ? I usually end up singing/whistling or slaloming through the cats eyes ;)

Don't get too complacent – that's when accidents will happen. I don't really get bored although I occassionally realise that the traffic is going slower than usual hence making the trip take longer. If you get bored just think about how much worse it'd be in a car!

[strandedinnz]

Well today was a frustrating filter to work ... 3 guys on oversized bikes (cars with two wheels basically) were filtering really REALLY slowly on SH1 to Auckland were ignoring the 3 other bikes behind them ... almost felt like I was in a car sitting in the queue :-( And the car drivers were probably not happy with a long convoy of bikes going past their mirrors.

[newbie2012]

.. 3 guys on oversized bikes (cars with two wheels basically) were filtering really REALLY slowly on SH1 to Auckland were ignoring the 3 other bikes behind them ... almost felt like I was in a car sitting in the queue :-(.

What is really slowly in your eyes ? 10 /20/30/40/50+ kph ? Also, how much faster than cars ?

[James Deuce]

Argue about speed differential all you want. If I'm holding people up I get out of the way. They were just fat rude cunts, on fat, rude cunt bikes.

[strandedinnz]

What is really slowly in your eyes ? 10 /20/30/40/50+ kph ? Also, how much faster than cars ?

Rolling along in 2nd gear and either dropping to first or being cruel to the clutch while having the motor chugging cause the revs are too low ... that sort of really slowly. I could have walked past them quicker.

[newbie2012]

Argue about speed differential all you want. If I'm holding people up I get out of the way. They were just fat rude cunts, on fat, rude cunt bikes.

Lol. I, too, wear my shining halo of pureness of not holding up other riders while splitting, pulling over and waving them past when there is a clear space to do so. It be good to think we all do...

But there is also a line of thinking that goes along the lines of respect and consideration of other riders is a 2 way thing, hence was interested in some context. So my question still stands.

[James Deuce]

No it doesn't. You're not the boss of me or anyone else riding a motorcycle. Look after yourself first and simply be courteous. Most of all; stop lecturing people. Even in the form of a strawman question.

[newbie2012]

You're not the boss of me or anyone else riding a motorcycle. Look after yourself first and simply be courteous.

I agree with you on all the above.

I don't get how putting an alternative line of thought is lecturing anyone.

[newbie2012]

Rolling along in 2nd gear and either dropping to first or being cruel to the clutch while having the motor chugging cause the revs are too low ... that sort of really slowly. I could have walked past them quicker.

Get you there, luckily have never been in that situation for very long. Frustrating to be sitting behind someone who is making little progress on a bike or in car, who doesn't move over for other users

What is the best thing to do - mirror inconsiderate behaviour by flashing other rider / using horn (with potential fallout with cars around) or sit back and mutter to yourself while waiting for a space.

Btw, your 400 is quite a narrow bike, what constitutes an oversized bike ? Assuming a cruiser setup with big foot pegs and handles ?

[strandedinnz]

Get you there, luckily have never been in that situation for very long. Frustrating to be sitting behind someone who is making little progress on a bike or in car, who doesn't move over for other users

What is the best thing to do - mirror inconsiderate behaviour by flashing other rider / using horn (with potential fallout with cars around) or sit back and mutter to yourself while waiting for a space.

Btw, your 400 is quite a narrow bike, what constitutes an oversized bike ? Assuming a cruiser setup with big foot pegs and handles ?

I was doing the muttering to myself thing ... I'm happy to lane split but I won't go along the hard shoulder or the edge bit by the barrier on the right of the outside lane (unlike a few other riders I see every morning).

I class anything other than a DR-Z400 as either over or undersized ;) But these guys were on big fat things, one had hard luggage, one had soft saddle bags and the other was just fat ... my bike recognition skills only extend to what I currently own and what I lust after ;)

[newbie2012]

I class anything other than a DR-Z400 as either over or undersized ;) But these guys were on big fat things, one had hard luggage, one had soft saddle bags and the other was just fat ... my bike recognition skills only extend to what I currently own and what I lust after ;)

Lol. Ditto to your comments. Safe riding

[James Deuce]

It's not an alternative line of thought. You delivered it in the hectoring tones of one who suspects that someone is doing it wrong.

[aotearoasteve]

I was just reading up on the new CBTA assessment system for licencing, and noticed the following excerpt in the course guide (Page 9):


Progression
Explanation:
Rider is maintaining progress in traffic flow whenever it is safe to do
so.
Requirements:
• Rider does not filter or lane split when unsafe to do so.
Lane splitting - relates to moving through the traffic travelling in the
same direction (that is in motion) by travelling between the lanes.
Filtering - relates to moving through traffic travelling in the same
direction (that is stopped) by travelling between the lanes.

if a failure is defined by "when unsafe to do so" - this implies that it’s perfectly legal behaviour "when safe to do so".
If course this itself is subject to interpretation, however I feel that having it mentioned here is a good step forwards.

General CBTA info: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/cbta.html?r=1#Wellington
Course guide: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/docs/cbta-course-guide.pdf

[swbarnett]

The deal is I'd like to hear from Bykey cop /scumdog nodman etc to get the legal definition of what we can and can't do.
Please make sure it's clear where they operate. The attitude of an Auckland cop may vary widely from those in the lower south.

[FROSTY]

Please make sure it's clear where they operate. The attitude of an Auckland cop may vary widely from those in the lower south.
Concidering this thread was started nine years ago I'd say things mighta changed a bit :facepalm:

[Juniper]

Bare in mind that it's up to the individual cops nature.

From what I understand legally we are allowed to filter as it is moving past stationary cars (as says in the road code somewhere)
Splitting is down to the cop. They can do you for overtaking on the left. As that is illegal. But in saying that they let us get away with it as long as you are not being stupid. And that was told to me by a bike cop in uniform.

It's the same as when you get a ticket. If they ping you at 122 in a 100km zone they can do you for exactly that. As that was the speed they got you at. HOWEVER depending on that police officers mood they might just do you at 119 to save you from that extra set of demerits. And my friends had that happen while I was on the back.

Be nice to your cops if they are lenient on you. But if not just take it. You were in the wrong.

Another mate was done for speeding and he didn't have his L plate on. The cop have him the ticket for the speed but let him off for the L plate. So I'd take the ticket and say thank you very much sir. Otherwise he might just do you for the L plate too.

[swbarnett]

Concidering this thread was started nine years ago I'd say things mighta changed a bit :facepalm:
I came to this thread from an update email that said it was new. It wasn't until after I'd posted that I realised it wasn't. I tried to delete the post but it wouldn't let me.

[Sis]

I got my AMA (AMerican Motorcycle Association) magazine the other day.
There was an article on Lane splitting written by David Kinaan retired 2012 as the supervisor of the California Highway Patrol Academy Motorcycle Training Unit.

I have attached it (and hoe you can read it)
Interesting reading and I have found that passing traffic only 10 mph faster is about right. You have to allow for the riding on the right and make the switch to left. I really picked up on the cops wanting to be able to lane split for traffic or emergency reasons. If lane splitting was to be made illegal, even the cops wouldn't be able to do it. And just maybe that is the real reason, lane splitting has been left alone here too.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/asset.php?fid=266719&uid=5449&d=1395037319

[Berries]

If lane splitting was to be made illegal, even the cops wouldn't be able to do it.
What, like parking on a motorway?

[newbie2012]

It's not an alternative line of thought. You delivered it in the hectoring tones of one who suspects that someone is doing it wrong.

no intent of hectoring or pre-judgement

[newbie2012]

It's not an alternative line of thought. You delivered it in the hectoring tones of one who suspects that someone is doing it wrong.

No intent to hector or pre-judge. Seriously.

Where I was coming from - I tend to split up to 40 then pull in, as I'm uncomfortable at much higher speed (plus my brain can't process any more and remain aware of what is happening around me) . Quite a few riders will split at faster speeds than me and make better speed through the traffic. I'll often wave other riders past me each morning.

So, what speed do other riders think is reasonable for splitting ?

[pzkpfw]

...

So, what speed do other riders think is reasonable for splitting ?

In general I'll split up to within around 10km - 20 km of the speed limit, then just go with the traffic. So if the motorway has it's 60 km limit on, if the traffic is doing 50 km I'll just slot in with the flow. Or if it's got the 100 km limit on, I might just slot in to traffic doing 80 km or more.

From the other direction, I won't go more than 10 or 20 km faster than the traffic. So if it's doing 50 km in 100 km area, I'll probably do 60 km or so; certainly not 100 km just because that's the limit!

Disclaimer: I have to take my eyes off the road in front to see my speedo, so while splitting I don't watch it all. So my speeds are estimates.

[gjm]

This is kind-of an extension of the splitting discussion... Anyone who has used any two-lane highway for any period of time will know there are those who sit in the right hand lane at 95-97km/h, and have absolutely no intention of moving into the left hand lane. They will stay there (for example) from outside Rangiriri through to Huntly, regardless of whether there is any traffic in the left lane.

Is it illegal to pass on the left?

[Gremlin]

Is it illegal to pass on the left?
Pass in a separate lane on the left. Legal.

Pass in the same lane on the left. Illegal.

[Ender EnZed]

Is it illegal to pass on the left?

Not in NZ.

[gjm]

Pass in a separate lane on the left. Legal.

Pass in the same lane on the left. Illegal.


Not in NZ.

I thought it was legal - just checking.

[soopa]

I've had a learner for a couple of months now and just had a minor incidient. It's probabaly my fault but just want a few my opinions. Came up to a intersection on a red light, filtered through to first car. The light changes green as I'm just behind the passenger door of the first car and thats when I made contact with my left handlebar to his right mirror. It seemed to me that the gap closed as soon as both cars either side of me moved out and I got stuck in between I'm in the process of getting some camera footage of the incident from the traffic lights.

[Juniper]

I've had a learner for a couple of months now and just had a minor incidient. It's probabaly my fault but just want a few my opinions. Came up to a intersection on a red light, filtered through to first car. The light changes green as I'm just behind the passenger door of the first car and thats when I made contact with my left handlebar to his right mirror. It seemed to me that the gap closed as soon as both cars either side of me moved out and I got stuck in between I'm in the process of getting some camera footage of the incident from the traffic lights.

Hmmmm I'm thinking its a mixture of you being legally at fault and bad luck.

Moving past stationary cars: Legal
Cars start moving: Classes as splitting.

That's happened to me a few times and its a case of knowing the lights (like seeing when the other ones are about to go red, or knowing when these ones went red) and when it does catch you out either pin it ahead of them or indicate and pull into a lane. I've found probably 85% of the time a car will let you slide in front of them.

[soopa]

Hmmmm I'm thinking its a mixture of you being legally at fault and bad luck.

Moving past stationary cars: Legal
Cars start moving: Classes as splitting.

That's happened to me a few times and its a case of knowing the lights (like seeing when the other ones are about to go red, or knowing when these ones went red) and when it does catch you out either pin it ahead of them or indicate and pull into a lane. I've found probably 85% of the time a car will let you slide in front of them.

Yep I did try go ahead of him as soon as it turned green, however as I accelerated thats when the gapped closed on me. Mind you I was going like 5km/h when the lights changed. Just hoping that footage can see what actaully happned!

[caseye]

Yep I did try go ahead of him as soon as it turned green, however as I accelerated thats when the gapped closed on me. Mind you I was going like 5km/h when the lights changed. Just hoping that footage can see what actaully happned!

The moral of this story?
Don't still be there when they begin moving, you don't have to sprint out of the blocks but doing 5kph when potentially between cars is a bad idea.
Ride for a while longer, get confident on your bike, know what it and you can do before you start trying splitting or filtering.
Then, maybe you'll become an old rider.

[rustyblade]

I got stopped by the po-po, the fuzz, the five-oh, the cozzers, the rozzers, the one-time blah blah the other week.

~55 through some cars here and there on SH1 going north, Gent on a BMW police bike was NOT happy with me, bit different from england here!

Taught me - ~35 is the max to go, if the cars go faster find a space and muscle in.

since then my bike has generally started cooking herself in the slowness generally.

Apparently he wasn't happy with the standard of my riding - but if my standard was bad then I'd be DEAD!
advanced biker course and 20 years of experience count for nothing apparently.
Props to mr copper for not ticketing me, respec'.

Who's up for the AKL TRAFFIC 900 SPECIAL STAGE SPLITTING MOTORCYCLE RALLY 2014 ?!

[swbarnett]

- but if my standard was bad then I'd be DEAD!
If this were true then a fair proportion of Auckland's car drivers would be dead also.


advanced biker course and 20 years of experience count for nothing apparently.
Correct. You are only as good as your last ride.

[Juniper]

Who's up for the AKL TRAFFIC 900 SPECIAL STAGE SPLITTING MOTORCYCLE RALLY 2014 ?!

oh????????

[TheDemonLord]

Who's up for the AKL TRAFFIC 900 SPECIAL STAGE SPLITTING MOTORCYCLE RALLY 2014 ?!

Pfft, I do that every morning.

Was having a good blast this morning - someone on a Yamaha R1 in front of me and we were both pootling along at 20 kph above the speed of the traffic ;)

[biketimus_prime]

Yeah I also commute into town every morning. It's pretty good usually. Just some people won't move over to give you space to pass sometimes but 9 days out of 10 are excellent. I make an effort nowadays to wave to say thanks (small wave) if people go out of their way to move over and let me through, especially truck drivers are good dudes about making space. It lets them know I realise they're making an effort for me and also lets those around them know what good behaviour is around bikes. I figure people like being rewarded or recognised for their good deeds, eventually as more people see me waving, they will also make an effort to watch out and move over for lane splitters in order to experience me waving at them and making them feel good. :cool:

[Berries]

I figure people like being rewarded or recognised for their good deeds, eventually as more people see me waving, they will also make an effort to watch out and move over for lane splitters in order to experience me waving at them and making them feel good. :cool:
Tui ad right here?

[caseye]

Tui ad right here?

I actually think that he's right, if enough of us did wave our thanks and only moved when the room was made, we'd all be accepted more readily by car drivers.
Pity is so many bike rides think their shit doesn't stink and do exactly what they want when the........... U no the rest already.
Minority spoiling it for the majority.

[swbarnett]

I actually think that he's right, if enough of us did wave our thanks and only moved when the room was made, we'd all be accepted more readily by car drivers.
Spot on. I, for one, wave for every vehicle that makes room when I can.

[TLJimmy]

I've been lane splitting for 29 years without incident - especially coming up to roundabouts - majority of drivers cant seem to anticipate whats going to happen, and consequently there are often long, unnecessary que's. I ride with 2 fingers on the brake and clutch, and look at the cars ahead, and the drivers rather than indicators at roundabouts. Of course you wave if a car gives you room - its courtious and takes no effort - bikers cop enough flack - you mayaswell smooth the way where you can.

A cop saw me lane splitting yesterday, smiled and pointed at his speedo - I was doing just under 60. So there is at least one reasonable copper out there:clap: The road code says you can overtake where there are double yellow lines, as long as you do not cross them. To me that is condoning lane splitting - and is what I will say if plod pulls me up. (unless they've changed the rules - they seem to upgrade them every-so-often without advertising the fact).

[yevjenko]

Spot on. I, for one, wave for every vehicle that makes room when I can.

Seconded

sent from my phone (so scuze auto correct typos)

[oneofsix]

Spot on. I, for one, wave for every vehicle that makes room when I can.

I even wave to the ones that make space just because they can't follow the road and have even given a friendly wave to the one or two that have realised too late what I was doing and missed the opportunity to shut the door just to make them think :lol:

[Juniper]

Spot on. I, for one, wave for every vehicle that makes room when I can.

Also to the ones that indicate to change lanes, but then see you coming so stop and pull back to let you pass.

I have stopped traffic for a car before. He was trying to change lanes and the guy in the lane next to him wasent letting him through so I pulled infront and slowed down to let the car move in. Then continued on my way.

[swbarnett]

Also to the ones that indicate to change lanes, but then see you coming so stop and pull back to let you pass.
Indeed.


I have stopped traffic for a car before. He was trying to change lanes and the guy in the lane next to him wasent letting him through so I pulled infront and slowed down to let the car move in. Then continued on my way.
I've lost track of the number of times I've pulled back into the lane for the express purpose of stopping it so someone can come out of a side street or driveway.

[5150]

Lane splitting? No worries mate :)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9IMEs1ApdGo/Tlq7ZmXWkqI/AAAAAAAAGXs/vz59NPkn4_k/s1600/IMG_1020.JPG

[f2dz]

I have stopped traffic for a car before. He was trying to change lanes and the guy in the lane next to him wasent letting him through so I pulled infront and slowed down to let the car move in. Then continued on my way.

I used to do the same but only when people were trying to get out of side streets. That was until almost being rear ended 3 times due to people not seeing my brake lights or an arm up. Now I never consider it, no matter how heavy traffic is.

Pulling into lanes on the motorway to slow down traffic for some random car seems a little dangerous to me, especially if it's in slow moving rush hour traffic

[swbarnett]

I used to do the same but only when people were trying to get out of side streets. That was until almost being rear ended 3 times due to people not seeing my brake lights or an arm up.
Just keep one eye on your mirror. I've had this happen and just gave it up until next time. No big deal.

[biketimus_prime]

Tui ad right here?

Not a Tui ad, I seriously make an effort to wave in the hopes it'll spread good behaviour amongst drivers :)

[yevjenko]

Not a Tui ad, I seriously make an effort to wave in the hopes it'll spread good behaviour amongst drivers :)

Same, but I also wave when I make a mistake too

sent from my phone (so scuze auto correct typos)

[MrKiwi]

This sounds like a sensible approach, what are your views, should we do something similar in NZ?

www.roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/motorcyclists/lanefiltering/index.html (http://www.roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/motorcyclists/lanefiltering/index.html)

[BigAl]

Sounds far too sensible to be used in NZ.

[willytheekid]

...most of us already DO this in New Zealand :yes:

[Ribit]

Sensible.
Is there a problem here with current laws or practices that justify a change?

(Cyclists get the shitty end of the stick on roads. they have to ride next to parked cars and the kerb where the movie says its dangerous...)

[caspernz]

...most of us already DO this in New Zealand :yes:

Yeah of course.

But doing it according to the letter of the law in NZ is quite a challenge, and thus open to enforcement.

Be nice to see the rules simplified/relaxed in NZ. I like the idea shown in the vid.

[pzkpfw]

...
Motorcyclists must only lane filter when travelling less than 30 km/h
...
Motorcyclists caught moving between traffic at over 30km/h face heavy fines and three demerit points under a new offence called ‘lane splitting.
...

They are allowing filtering, not splitting.

So - stuff that!

This new law gives from one hand but takes away with the other. If implemented here, it would prevent what we call splitting, except for the situations where the traffic is very slow. Takes away half the advantage of commuting on a bike.

[Erelyes]

I think a point was made in the 'other' thread is that drawing attention to the practice is probably not worthwhile, since the practice is currently a grey area here in NZ. If the authorities were to do anything they would more likely than not just ban it outright, flow of traffic or alleviation of rear-end risk be damned.

[awayatc]

When was the last time , or the first time for that matter legislation ever changed in our favour?

All you could possibly receive is a price tag for our "infringement notice" automatons

[caseye]

I'd be happy with this as a law!
Long as the components were enforced evenly, ie: No car driver to deliberately close a gap.
Riders don't do stupid speeds when filtering.
Splitting traffic at speed is one of the things that gives us all a bad name with joe bloggs car drivers, scares them silly and creates unnecessary angst.

[gjm]

Looks a bit too sensible to be implemented by any governing body. It'd need to be picked up, promoted and widely publicised by a significant body representing motorcyclists interests...

Now, where can we find one of those? ;)

[pzkpfw]

I'd be happy with this as a law!
Long as the components were enforced evenly, ie: No car driver to deliberately close a gap.
Riders don't do stupid speeds when filtering.
Splitting traffic at speed is one of the things that gives us all a bad name with joe bloggs car drivers, scares them silly and creates unnecessary angst.

So you're happy to split only where both you and the cars are doing less than 30 km/h?

[Akzle]

i dont pay much attention to policy, i just do what the fuck i want.

[caseye]

So you're happy to split only where both you and the cars are doing less than 30 km/h?

Does this mean that you want to reserve the right to filter/split at any speed, you perceive to be safe?

If traffic is moving at 30 K I will and do filter,in town and on the motorway.If traffic is moving at anything over 50 K on open roads and M/ways I usually just pootle along and take my legal passing opportunities as they come.

I see on a daily basis, riders splitting traffic that is moving at 70-80 kph,at much higher speeds than the traffic is moving at.
This is completely illegal and it is why car drivers are getting more and more pissed off with "all" motorcyclists, not just the numpties that do this and there are more and more of these numpties with L plates on who think this is the norm.
Inexperienced in the most part and not only ignorant of the law but also actively appearing to be defying it.

[swbarnett]

Does this mean that you want to reserve the right to filter/split at any speed, you perceive to be safe?

If traffic is moving at 30 K I will and do filter,in town and on the motorway.If traffic is moving at anything over 50 K on open roads and M/ways I usually just pootle along and take my legal passing opportunities as they come.

I see on a daily basis, riders splitting traffic that is moving at 70-80 kph,at much higher speeds than the traffic is moving at.
This is completely illegal and it is why car drivers are getting more and more pissed off with "all" motorcyclists, not just the numpties that do this and there are more and more of these numpties with L plates on who think this is the norm.
Inexperienced in the most part and not only ignorant of the law but also actively appearing to be defying it.
Nothing wrong with splitting higher speeds, within reason. Where it becomes a problem is too great a speed differential.

[Urano]

seems to me a perfectly reasonable approach...
maybe they have someone with a QI higher than 40 somewhere in public offices...
lucky them.



Does this mean that you want to reserve the right to filter/split at any speed, you perceive to be safe?
If traffic is moving at 30 K I will and do filter,in town and on the motorway.If traffic is moving at anything over 50 K on open roads and M/ways I usually just pootle along and take my legal passing opportunities as they come.

+1
passing "BETWEEN" two cars at speed is a very stupid thing to do.
it's different if the cars are slotted unevenly: then, if there's enough space you can pass one and connect the pass for the next.
but nearly no one do it with grano salis...

[Berries]

passing "BETWEEN" two cars at speed is a very stupid thing to do.
It is all relative. What is stupid to you may be safe to someone else and what is safe to you might seem stupid to someone else. Passing between two cars at speed was safe to me on busy UK motorways but I wouldn't do it on the dual carriageways down here.

Just don't complain when it goes wrong even if you are acting withing the rules, as will be the case in NSW. Just because there is a law change won't mean cars won't change lanes without indicating, it won't mean pedestrians won't walk between lanes of traffic. It will give the poorly skilled but righteous rider something else to hammer the 'cagers' with though when they make a mistake.

If it legitimises current practice fair enough, I filter through moving traffic every day. If it encourages others to do the same and they aren't aware of the particular risks then I cannot see how it could be a good thing. Might as well encourage more people on to bikes so the road toll goes up and they can finally kill them off for good. As motorbikes are so incompatible with the Safe System approach this has to be the end game if TPTB are really serious.

[swbarnett]

seems to me a perfectly reasonable approach...
As far as it goes, yes.

What I don't like is that what they call lane splitting will now more than likely be targeted.


passing "BETWEEN" two cars at speed is a very stupid thing to do.
Depends what you call "speed" - 40kph? 60? 120?

It's the speed differential that can be an issue.


it's different if the cars are slotted unevenly: then, if there's enough space you can pass one and connect the pass for the next.
but nearly no one do it with grano salis...
Many years ago I slalomed from one end of Auckland's southern motorway to the other. The bike was never upright for more than the instant when changing lean direction.

[pzkpfw]

... passing "BETWEEN" two cars at speed is a very stupid thing to do.
it's different if the cars are slotted unevenly: then, if there's enough space you can pass one and connect the pass for the next.
...

I usually feel (am) safer in the reverse situation. Where there are gaps between the cars within a lane, and the cars in different lanes are staggered, the cars can do dodgy lane-changes.

Where the cars are beside each other in the lanes, there is a chance they'll squeeze the gap if they have bad lane discipline, but it's much much less likely that they'll do a quickie lane change. They may not notice the bike splitting up from behind, but they do more likely see the car next to them.

Every week I see a bike have to avoid a car that darts across in front of them. I've never seen a car bang into the car beside them.

The slalom thing is fine, but less safe, in my opinion, than just splitting up between lines of congested traffic.

[Big Dog]

I usually feel (am) safer in the reverse situation. Where there are gaps between the cars within a lane, and the cars in different lanes are staggered, the cars can do dodgy lane-changes.

Where the cars are beside each other in the lanes, there is a chance they'll squeeze the gap if they have bad lane discipline, but it's much much less likely that they'll do a quickie lane change. They may not notice the bike splitting up from behind, but they do more likely see the car next to them.

Every week I see a bike have to avoid a car that darts across in front of them. I've never seen a car bang into the car beside them.

The slalom thing is fine, but less safe, in my opinion, than just splitting up between lines of congested traffic.

This morning I got pinched a couple of times. Both times by fancy cars driven by older women texting on cellphones.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Akzle]

This morning I got pinched a couple of times. Both times by fancy cars driven by older women texting on cellphones.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

i fucking love texting old wimmen.
Especially if they send me up-skirts while theyre driving.

[Gremlin]

I usually feel (am) safer in the reverse situation. Where there are gaps between the cars within a lane, and the cars in different lanes are staggered, the cars can do dodgy lane-changes.

Yeup, same here.

[buggerit]

I usually feel (am) safer in the reverse situation. Where there are gaps between the cars within a lane, and the cars in different lanes are staggered, the cars can do dodgy lane-changes.

Where the cars are beside each other in the lanes, there is a chance they'll squeeze the gap if they have bad lane discipline, but it's much much less likely that they'll do a quickie lane change. They may not notice the bike splitting up from behind, but they do more likely see the car next to them.

Every week I see a bike have to avoid a car that darts across in front of them. I've never seen a car bang into the car beside them.

The slalom thing is fine, but less safe, in my opinion, than just splitting up between lines of congested traffic.

+1, speed differential is more important than actual speed within reason too .

[Urano]

I usually feel (am) safer in the reverse situation. Where there are gaps between the cars within a lane, and the cars in different lanes are staggered, the cars can do dodgy lane-changes.
Where the cars are beside each other in the lanes, there is a chance they'll squeeze the gap if they have bad lane discipline, but it's much much less likely that they'll do a quickie lane change. They may not notice the bike splitting up from behind, but they do more likely see the car next to them.


fair reasoning.
but i still don't agree. :)
true, if two cars are beside each other it's unlikely they'll squeeze.
but take a look at this situation: two cars paired are often between 1 and 1,50 mt apart. a bike is large something around 60 cm, so it gives you about 20 to 40 cm per side of gap between you and each car.
now, let's say both the cagers would proceed PERFECTLY STRAIGHT (and you know it'll never happen...), do you know how quickly you'd do those average 30 cm should any perturbation occur to you at speed?
what if between the cars shows up a pothole? what if the tarmac between the two lanes is uneven, or has any junctions, and this destabilize your ride?
you have 30 cm of margin.
at low speed you can react and try to save the situation, at high speed it could be gone south well before you had even the time to realize what happened, and this is not dependent on the speed differential with the cars, but only on your speed.

and after all, why?
if the traffic is flowing at speed it means it isn't stuck. wait 20 secs more and make a safe takeover.


to be clear: never said slaloming is intrinsically "safe" (as safe as motorbiking could be...). i said that done with the brain on it will leave you more space to keep the situation under control...

[James Deuce]

Fuck me, this is boring.

[pritch]

Cheer up James.

The fish hook in the NSW rules is the bit that says you are only permitted to filter if it is safe. In the event that an accident occurred that would be proof that the filtering was unsafe. Even if it was caused by a cell phone chatting post-menopause pessimist taking upskirt photos for Akzle's titllation.

[rastuscat]

When was the last time , or the first time for that matter legislation ever changed in our favour?s

When it became legal for motorcyclists but not cars to use bus lanes.

[haydes55]

When it became legal for motorcyclists but not cars to use bus lanes.


Also LAMs scheme is definitely in our favour, new CBTA sounds better as well.

[Big Dog]

fair reasoning.
but i still don't agree. :)
true, if two cars are beside each other it's unlikely they'll squeeze.
but take a look at this situation: two cars paired are often between 1 and 1,50 mt apart. a bike is large something around 60 cm, so it gives you about 20 to 40 cm per side of gap between you and each car.
now, let's say both the cagers would proceed PERFECTLY STRAIGHT (and you know it'll never happen...), do you know how quickly you'd do those average 30 cm should any perturbation occur to you at speed?
what if between the cars shows up a pothole? what if the tarmac between the two lanes is uneven, or has any junctions, and this destabilize your ride?
you have 30 cm of margin.
at low speed you can react and try to save the situation, at high speed it could be gone south well before you had even the time to realize what happened, and this is not dependent on the speed differential with the cars, but only on your speed.

and after all, why?
if the traffic is flowing at speed it means it isn't stuck. wait 20 secs more and make a safe takeover.


to be clear: never said slaloming is intrinsically "safe" (as safe as motorbiking could be...). i said that done with the brain on it will leave you more space to keep the situation under control...

By that logic I shouldn't take a dump either in case a plane crash lands on my house.
Eliminate the risks you can, minimise the risks you can't, try to get enough experience / training to spot the difference.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[James Deuce]

Still bored. :wait:

[Maha]

Gets better as you scroll down...

'Cyclists should always check twice for motorcycles.' :lol:
They don't even check for pedestrians/red lights or trucks, so why would they comply with this? :rolleyes:

[Urano]

Eliminate the risks you can


exactly.
that maneuver on a road of cars that are movin' on quickly is a useless risk.
i'd eliminate :)

[Jase H]

Waiting at the traffic lights not that long ago I overheard a conversation between another biker and a motorcycle cop. The biker was asking about the legalities of lane splitting. The cop was saying that it was Ok to go past stationary traffic, as it could be argued you're passing parked cars. However, as soon as the traffic starts moving, you need to move in to line with the traffic.

Ignoring the extreme views/ hype such as "I don't think anyone should do this because it's not safe", or "I do what I want and I don't care", can any cop/ lawyer/ sensible authority comment on what is actually allowed here? Personally, I think the motorcycle cop's answer is actually a sensible approach.

[Berries]

Sensible is not legislated for and the next cop you meet might have a different view. See section 2.6 of this (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/rules/docs/road-user-2004.pdf) and then realise that it can be interpreted in several ways by the man with the hat.

[swbarnett]

exactly.
that maneuver on a road of cars that are movin' on quickly is a useless risk.
i'd eliminate :)
What's useless is subjective (as is what "quickly" means). Each rider has to make up their own mind as to what is and what isn't for them.

[awayatc]

the motorcycle cop's answer is actually a sensible approach.

a very rare encounter.......

sensible approach by infringement notice issuers definitely not the norm.........

[Big Dog]

exactly.
that maneuver on a road of cars that are movin' on quickly is a useless risk.
i'd eliminate :)

In my experience (however unscientific) it is safer to lane split than to sit in line and drivers without a a tonne of steel in their peripheral vision are a lot unpredictable.

Times "contacted" by another vehicle in the 10 years I have lived in or near Auckland:
Splitting = 0
Threading / weaving = 0
Sitting in traffic behaving = 6-10.

Times emergency braking in the last 2 years:
Splitting = 5-10
Threading = 5-10 ( much smaller sample, very rare I do this in traffic.
Sitting in traffic behaving = 20-40.

For me it is a daily judgement call based on the speed of traffic, weather and my own fitness for purpose. I don't tend to split or weave when very tired due to shorter reactions. This is because if there is a gain to be had by taking control of the situation I do. If there is not I try to have a little faith.

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Berries]

Ignoring the extreme views/ hype such as "I don't think anyone should do this because it's not safe", or "I do what I want and I don't care", can any cop/ lawyer/ sensible authority comment on what is actually allowed here? Personally, I think the motorcycle cop's answer is actually a sensible approach.
People shouldn't forget that the road rules were written for cars. The debate on here always revolves around those grey areas where the small size of the bike means it can be in places that were never considered in the law. This covers filtering, splitting and overtaking between a car and a solid yellow line. Legally possible yes, but the rules were not written specifically to allow motorbikes to do it.

[TheDemonLord]

I myself tend to weave alot - Especially when people are in the overtaking lane, sitting at 95 trying to 'overtake' the traffic in the left hand lane that is doing 94...

[James Deuce]

OMFG. Still going.

[Big Dog]

OMFG. Still going.

You would find this thread less boring if you stopped reading it...



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[PrincessBandit]

Everybody has their own idea of what is safe and what is unsafe; much depends on individual skill and road nous.
I've never had a problem with other vehicles deliberately blocking my way ahead, in fact the rare uncomfortable moments for me have been from other riders splitting behind me at speed.

As for riders who feel the desperate need to split or filter when traffic is OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG doing only 70 - 80 kph on the motorway, meh it's their business to mop up any bo-bo's they make. I just make sure I'm not in the firing line.

[James Deuce]

you would find this thread less boring if you stopped reading it...



Stupid phone / tapatalk, apologies in advance.

it keeps hassling me on tapatalk!!

[Big Dog]

it keeps hassling me on tapatalk!!

You can unsubscribe.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[Hawk]

hope this isn't posted else where

from Ride Forever web site with support from NZ Police and NZTA. So I guess if you are pulled for lane splitting and you are within these guidelines, " sorry officer but according these guideline released by NZ Police and NZTA ..................." have a printed copy with you. It may save you a ticket.

[rastuscat]

hope this isn't posted else where

from Ride Forever web site with support from NZ Police and NZTA. So I guess if you are pulled for lane splitting and you are within these guidelines, " sorry officer but according these guideline released by NZ Police and NZTA ..................." have a printed copy with you. It may save you a ticket.

Dear Lord.

Here we go again. There's no such thing as lane splitting in the legislation. No such thing as filtering either. We choose to use those terms, but they aren't mentioned in the law.

The section of law that deals with those things is the Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004, Rules 2.6 to 2.11.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM302188.html

Have a read. They make things fairly clear.

[Ender EnZed]

I suspect he was intending to link this document. (http://www.rideforever.co.nz/assets/Uploads/PDFs/ACC7009-RIDEFOREVER-Infosheet-FA.pdf)

[swbarnett]

Dear Lord.

Here we go again.
Did you bother do go look at the Ride Forever web site before you decided to mouth off?

I suggest you have a look at the link in the post above and come back with your thoughts when you're more informed about the guidelines mentioned.

[Gremlin]

Did you bother do go look at the Ride Forever web site before you decided to mouth off?

I suggest you have a look at the link in the post above and come back with your thoughts when you're more informed about the guidelines mentioned.
You missed the point. A nice document that is anything but the legislation is worth fuck all when defending a ticket, or arguing a point. Yes, that document is referencing legislation, and saying what it means... but it's not legislation.

[swbarnett]

You missed the point.
I don't think so. The point of the post is that the whole legal quagmire surrounding "lane-splitting" has been clarified. RC replied to it in a manner that is flippant and implies that he's commenting without even having read the document.


A nice document that is anything but the legislation is worth fuck all when defending a ticket, or arguing a point. Yes, that document is referencing legislation, and saying what it means... but it's not legislation.
Agreed. But when it's endorsed by both NZTA and the NZ Police it has more weight than all the discussion on here combined. It may not be legislation in and of itself but it certainly does clarify which legislation applies to what is colloquially called lane-splitting.

No, just like the road code, this document won't help in court. But the legislation it points to will (assuming you're on the right side of it).

[russd7]

I don't think so. The point of the post is that the whole legal quagmire surrounding "lane-splitting" has been clarified. RC replied to it in a manner that is flippant and implies that he's commenting without even having read the document.


Agreed. But when it's endorsed by both NZTA and the NZ Police it has more weight than all the discussion on here combined. It may not be legislation in and of itself but it certainly does clarify which legislation applies to what is colloquially called lane-splitting.

No, just like the road code, this document won't help in court. But the legislation it points to will (assuming you're on the right side of it).

2.6General requirements about passing other vehicles
"(b)the movement is made with due consideration for other users of the road; "


kinda ambiguous and open to interpretation really, it could well be argued that lane splitting is not in due consideration of other road users.

[Ocean1]

2.6General requirements about passing other vehicles
"(b)the movement is made with due consideration for other users of the road; "


kinda ambiguous and open to interpretation really, it could well be argued that lane splitting is not in due consideration of other road users.

Sure it is. I consider them to be losers in the morning race to work.

[swbarnett]

2.6General requirements about passing other vehicles
"(b)the movement is made with due consideration for other users of the road; "


kinda ambiguous and open to interpretation really, it could well be argued that lane splitting is not in due consideration of other road users.
Fair point.

I hate laws like this. What it really says is that the legislators were to lazy to come up with a reasoned definition of exactly what this means.

[Jase H]

2.6General requirements about passing other vehicles
"(b)the movement is made with due consideration for other users of the road; "


kinda ambiguous and open to interpretation really, it could well be argued that lane splitting is not in due consideration of other road users.

It could also be argued that you could lane split provided you gave consideration to other road users and didn't put them out.

As you said - ambiguous. Can be argued either way.

From what I'm seeing so far, as long as:

You don't put anyone else out;
You give to anyone who wants to move lanes or is turning;
Traffic is congested (can be ambiguous - define "congested");
You keep to the speed limit;
You go no more than 50m (I read this in one of the legistations);

It's Ok to lane split.

A little subjective, which may explain why some cops are Ok with it and some aren't.

And, for anything I've got wrong/ anybody doesn't agree with, cue the "constructive criticism". ;)

[Wayne N]

2.6General requirements about passing other vehicles
"(b)the movement is made with due consideration for other users of the road; "


kinda ambiguous and open to interpretation really, it could well be argued that lane splitting is not in due consideration of other road users.

My first post to the forums here. I'm a kiwi who has been living and riding in the UK for the past 15 years. It is certainly not ambiguous over here:

Rule 88 of the Highway Code (2015) under rules for motorcyclists states…‘Additionally, when filtering in slow-moving traffic, take care and keep your speed low'

Rule 151 advises car drivers in slow moving traffic to ‘be aware of cyclists and motorcyclists who may be passing on either side’

And, Rule 211 states: 'It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering
through traffic. Always look out for them before you emerge from a junction; they could be approaching faster than you think. When turning right across a line of slow moving
or stationary traffic, look out for cyclists or motorcyclists on the inside of the traffic you are crossing. Be especially careful when turning, and when changing direction or lane. Be sure to check mirrors and blind spots carefully.'


Unfortunately it is not so clear if there is an accident (or RTC as they like to call them over here). In almost all cases partial fault or contributory negligence by the motorcyclist will be argued by the other vehicles insurance company. It is a lottery who will 'win' and it is very seldom that 100% blame is apportioned to the other vehicle driver :(

Is it not possible to get something similar to the UK Highway Code written into the NZ Highway Code? At least it would make the filtering question less ambiguous .....

[Gremlin]

Is it not possible to get something similar to the UK Highway Code written into the NZ Highway Code? At least it would make the filtering question less ambiguous .....
I think general consensus is careful what you wish for. They could easily go the other way and make it illegal.

[Wayne N]

I think general consensus is careful what you wish for. They could easily go the other way and make it illegal.

I take your point ;) but wouldn't they have to actually have to change the law to do so (as they have in Germany)? I thought I recalled reading in this thread that someone in the NZ Police stated that it was not illegal to filter although subject to various overtaking rules.

I don't know how the NZ Road Code applies these days but in the UK this is how it is works:

Many of the rules in The Highway Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words ‘MUST/MUST NOT’. In addition, the rule includes an abbreviated reference to the legislation which creates the offence.
Although failure to comply with the other rules of The Highway Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory wording such as ‘should/should not’ or ‘do/do not’.

The rules I quoted in the post above are not legal requirements. There is no UK legislation that states filtering is or is not allowed. It is simply that that by having these rules in the Road Code there is no ambiguity (and therefor inconsistency) when it comes to enforcement.

[Gremlin]

The rules I quoted in the post above are not legal requirements. There is no UK legislation that states filtering is or is not allowed. It is simply that that by having these rules in the Road Code there is no ambiguity (and therefor inconsistency) when it comes to enforcement.
There are no reference at all to filtering/splitting and it effectively falls into passing.

In summary (as there are a few things) it is legal to pass a moving vehicle on it's right hand side within the same lane, but if you're on the left side of the vehicle then it must be stationary (ie, not moving). So on the motorway slipping down the right side is all fine... but move into the right lane and pass the cars on their left and you've gone from legal to illegal (Passing on the Left) in a couple of cm.

[Swoop]

Is it not possible to get something similar to the UK Highway Code written into the NZ Highway Code? At least it would make the filtering question less ambiguous .....

Those rules you posted are simple and well thought out.
The chances of something similar happening here are zero. The reason why: because it hasn't been thought up and enacted in the state of Victoria (Aus) first. Our bureaucrats suck their dick, and only their dick.

Weirdly, Melbourne has a sensible bike parking policy. Go figure?:scratch:

[Juniper]

A mate of mine who works for NZTA watching the cameras has said that the police are targeting people who are splitting at 80km+ through slow traffic.

It's the bike cops that are the ones looking out for these people.

And TBH more power to them, splitting at 80km through 30-50km traffic is a bit ballsy. I'm not saying I'm innocent, but I do have my moments of stupidity lol!!

[Welly-Ray]

Have they taken any action against those whom they target at?

[Juniper]

Have they taken any action against those whom they target at?

Yep I've seen a few bikers been pulled over by bike cops on the northern. Not for a couple of weeks but I did quite a lot a few weeks ago.

[Latte]

A mate of mine who works for NZTA watching the cameras has said that the police are targeting people who are splitting at 80km+ through slow traffic.

It's the bike cops that are the ones looking out for these people.

And TBH more power to them, splitting at 80km through 30-50km traffic is a bit ballsy. I'm not saying I'm innocent, but I do have my moments of stupidity lol!!

From experience (and I concede others may find it different) the speed difference between splitters and the lanes of traffic isnt the risk, it's the difference of speed between the lanes of traffic, causing people to shoot across to get into a gap (focussing on avoiding the car behind and timing the gap, also not indicating until the last minute to avoid the gap being closed up etc).

An example of this is northbound on the harbour bridge, the splitters Ive seen collected all seem to be just after the St Mary's Bay Onramp, as L1 is almost stopped and L2 is moving, drivers are intent on getting into the faster lane.

This doesn't take into account Driver perception, and thats what will end up having splitting outlawed/banned/whatever. So I try to keep it to +30 and 50 max.

[Wayne N]

Weirdly, Melbourne has a sensible bike parking policy. Go figure?:scratch:

Maybe we need to copy that over here! It is a total shambles - every town/city has a different policy. For example: In Liverpool it is illegal to park your bike in marked parking spot even if you have a 'pay and display' ticket attached. You are supposed to park in designated 'motorcycle parking' spots. Where are these? If you are from out of town, you would never know. There are no directions signposted. The city council who vigorously enforce this say that you should look on their web site for the location of these spots. There are not many spots - half a dozen or so over the whole city. So if you are from out of town and riding into Liverpool, as many will be over the next week for the IOM ferry, you are supposed to look at the LCC web site first to find a parking location!! OTH, you can ride in the bus lanes.

If you have just come across from Manchester, the opposite applies: You have to use the 'pay and display' spots and you'll get booked for using the bus lanes! :headbang:

Sorry, totally off-topic but bike parking touches a raw nerve!!:mad:

[Ocean1]

Maybe we need to copy that over here! It is a total shambles - every town/city has a different policy. For example: In Liverpool it is illegal to park your bike in marked parking spot even if you have a 'pay and display' ticket attached. You are supposed to park in designated 'motorcycle parking' spots. Where are these? If you are from out of town, you would never know. There are no directions signposted. The city council who vigorously enforce this say that you should look on their web site for the location of these spots. There are not many spots - half a dozen or so over the whole city. So if you are from out of town and riding into Liverpool, as many will be over the next week for the IOM ferry, you are supposed to look at the LCC web site first to find a parking location!! OTH, you can ride in the bus lanes.

So that's where Wellington got it from...

[Wayne N]

A mate of mine who works for NZTA watching the cameras has said that the police are targeting people who are splitting at 80km+ through slow traffic.


I suspect that you'd get booked over here for doing the same thing. Although I do see it every day, I personally wouldn't split lanes at that speed. There is just no margin for error. It takes just one car to swap lanes in front of you without looking ........ Once the traffic is moving at around 40kph+, I'll stop filtering and just go with the traffic flow until it slows down again and then I'll filter again.

I'm certainly not 'holier than thou' though. In my younger days I took a lot more risks. I recall getting booked for filtering on the Hutt road into Wellington back in the late 70's. The charge was 'riding in a manner dangerous...' or something similar. Mandatory disqualification for 6 months. Luckily, I was going overseas the following week and already had my international license :msn-wink:

[Wayne N]

So that's where Wellington got it from...

Is it the same in Wellington? I was there last week and saw my old bike parking spot on Lambton Quay was still there??

[Ocean1]

Is it the same in Wellington? I was there last week and saw my old bike parking spot on Lambton Quay was still there??

Aye. No bikes in car parks. Designated free bike parks, but not enough, and not where anyone wants to park.

I can only presume those in charge of such things don't ride and get upset at seeing a bike taking up only half of a car park, paid for or not.

Mind you, when I've been where you can park in car parks cars often try to use the other half of your park...

[swbarnett]

A mate of mine who works for NZTA watching the cameras has said that the police are targeting people who are splitting at 80km+ through slow traffic.
The important point here is "through slow traffic". When splitting1 there are a number of things that must be kept at the forefront of your mind. These are my top three in no particular order:


Speed differential between yourself and the traffic. Anything under about 30kph is fine in my book. Even traffic doing 200kph could be safely split if you keep the differential relatively low. It's the reference frame that matters, not how fast it's moving2.
Speed differential between lanes - if this gets too high then it becomes impossible to keep your speed low relative to the slower lane.
Mind the gap. Be VERY wary when passing a vehicle with no matching vehicle in the lane to the other side of you.


There are a number of other things that need to also be taken into consideration but these are the main three.




1Doing a nearly daily commute of 100km return on Auckland's motorway this is something I have just a little bit of experience with

2This is why it's possible to play table tennis on a moving train.

[Erelyes]

Aye. No bikes in car parks. Designated free bike parks, but not enough, and not where anyone wants to park.

I can only presume those in charge of such things don't ride and get upset at seeing a bike taking up only half of a car park, paid for or not.

Mind you, when I've been where you can park in car parks cars often try to use the other half of your park...

Come to Dunedin. The rule of thumb is

- Bikes allowed in Pay and Display spaces. Moreover, if a group of bikes is travelling and they all park in one space, they only have to buy one pay and display receipt for the one space. However riders travelling separately must each buy their own receipt.

Receipt doesn't have to be displayed - if you don't and you get booked, you just come in with your proof of payment you get off.

Course we still get scooter riders that try their damndest to spoil it for everyone by parking in spaces already occupied by a car. You can tell because they are perched right on the white line, not anywhere near the middle of the space. This despite there being a motorcycle park every other block in the CBD.

[Swoop]

Designated free bike parks, but not enough, and not where anyone wants to park.
Easily solved with a pot of paint and a wooden template. Even faster with an aerosol can (but the paint will not last).

I've merilly sprayed lines for bike parking in an area and that is now loaded to capacity with bikes and scooters.
If anyone is worried about doing this, simply wear a Hi-Viz "cloak of invisibility" and you will be completely ignored as you go about your painting.

[Ocean1]

Easily solved with a pot of paint and a wooden template. Even faster with an aerosol can (but the paint will not last).

In exchange for access to the vague benefits of a visit to the city? Nowhere near easy enough.

Fuck me with the centre of most towns starting to look decidedly ghost-like you'd think the last thing they'd be doing is discouraging visitors.

I've started flying out of Paraparaumu wherever possible for exactly similar reasons.

[BMWST?]

There are no reference at all to filtering/splitting and it effectively falls into passing.

In summary (as there are a few things) it is legal to pass a moving vehicle on it's right hand side within the same lane, but if you're on the left side of the vehicle then it must be stationary (ie, not moving). So on the motorway slipping down the right side is all fine... but move into the right lane and pass the cars on their left and you've gone from legal to illegal (Passing on the Left) in a couple of cm.
You can pass on the left if you are in a seperate lane as well
Re the speed differential,the higher the more risky,as people just dont expect vehicles to apear from no where.As a reference the next time you are in town and there are people walkin by,stop and observe how fast people pass by.The fastest of them is going 6 km hr

[gjm]

A study at the University of Berkeley comes up with the blindingly obvious - lane splitting is safe, so long as you're careful.

Actually, it says a lot more than that.

I've uploaded a copy of the report here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByeM4uevgDe8UlhvU0l6Z0tYekE/view?usp=sharing).

[Berries]

Dunedin style.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CQ6wOMWkMg0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Erelyes]

Dunedin style.

Like.. A... Glove...

[Mike.Gayner]

What was dangerous about that? Even if the car has been side-by-side with the trailer/van there would have been tons of room.

edit: Fuck me just looked at that person's Youtube history. They just drive around posting "dangerous driving" and the number plates of said drivers. Fucking little wanker busy-body self appointed road sheriff.

[Berries]

edit: Fuck me just looked at that person's Youtube history. They just drive around posting "dangerous driving" and the number plates of said drivers. Fucking little wanker busy-body self appointed road sheriff.
Did you see him pull right at the end of the passing lane while towing a trailer to force the other car over the double yellows? Wanker. Would add comments if I knew how to. He obviously lives close by and I probably pass him on the way to and from work. I will keep him on favourites just in case I make an appearance.

[Swoop]

Dunedin style.

Interesting to see the amount of "right lane, fucked if I'm using the left lane", cock monkeys down that way.

[Tazz]

Did you see him pull right at the end of the passing lane while towing a trailer to force the other car over the double yellows? Wanker. Would add comments if I knew how to. He obviously lives close by and I probably pass him on the way to and from work. I will keep him on favourites just in case I make an appearance.

Keep an eye out for a white 4x4? being drivin by someone who looks like they haven't had a hot shower in a while, as hinted by this riviting tale.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M__bG7n-afQ


Interesting to see the amount of "right lane, fucked if I'm using the left lane", cock monkeys down that way.

I flicked through a few vids. In every one they are blocking the right lane. The vids are short so I wouldn't be surprised if they are brake checking people/aggravating beforehand to get others to pass so they can catch something on their wee camera.

[rastuscat]

The vids are short so I wouldn't be surprised if they are brake checking people/aggravating beforehand to get others to pass so they can catch something on their wee camera.

Yup. There's a rash of eggs running around trying to find something to film so they can post it on their YouTube pissing contest page.

If nothing of consequence happens, they wind someone up to get something to happen.

Look them up, they work for a company callee Knobz'R'Us

Just sayin

[nelubian]

I've searched for this in posts but couldn't find.
Can anyone clarify: is it legal to filter the stationary traffic through the cyclist lane?

[Big Dog]

I've searched for this in posts but couldn't find.
Can anyone clarify: is it legal to filter the stationary traffic through the cyclist lane?
I'm afraid you will need to consult your local bylaws and not others.

Nationally no.
Some councils allow via a bylaw.
Worse some allow by bylaw to some specified locations.

Once upon a time the cycle lanes past MOTAT and through Grey Lynn allowed. On the other hand post super city I have had conflicting reports.

Mind you most of the cycleways there have been replaced by bus lanes.

Sent via tapatalk.

[haydes55]

You can filter through a cycle lane for 50m if you are turning left.

Just don't get caught.

[MarkH]

You can filter through a cycle lane for 50m if you are turning left.

Just don't get caught.

I've filtered passed stationary traffic using a footpath, also works best if you don't get caught.

[haydes55]

Ursela Carlson (Spl?) is hosting Road Madness on TV3 tonight. Special episode on motorbike crashes. She Just said that lane splitting was actually totally legal. Surely they have some legal backing to be able to say that on national TV with authority. No mention of staying left of the lane markers, they actually showed a clip of a rider riding to the right of the line when she says it's legal.

Side note, I remember hearing a few years back that Ursela Carlson used to ride a GN250:scooter:

[Holy Roller]

Ursela Carlson (Spl?) is hosting Road Madness on TV3 tonight. Special episode on motorbike crashes. She Just said that lane splitting was actually totally legal. Surely they have some legal backing to be able to say that on national TV with authority. No mention of staying left of the lane markers, they actually showed a clip of a rider riding to the right of the line when she says it's legal.

Side note, I remember hearing a few years back that Ursela Carlson used to ride a GN250:scooter:
From the NZTA WEBSITE for the CBTA competency test
Makes interesting reading

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/21/cc29a5a0976534b7b4db1ee2c1f89202.jpg

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

[MD]

I watched Road madness this week. Yeah,some of the riders were asking for trouble- splitting too fast and tailgating other bikes. But hey, I'm probably equally guilty of that at times.

She sure had it in for bikes though. Quite a negative take on everything. I disagreed with her moaning about a bike ovetaking cars on a slightly winding open road, looked Ok to me until I noticed the rider had a pillion who was only in a t-shirt and had no gloves - IDIOTS both of them.

[swbarnett]

The problem as I see it is the perception of other road users and their unwillingness to admit that they are completely clueless when it comes to motorcycles. I know that some of the stuff I do while splitting looks bad when in fact it's perfectly safe. Without being inside my mind at the time no one but me is qualified to make that judgement.

The perception of others is not a reason to adjust one's behaviour. If we did that we'd spend our whole life worried about what other people think and achieving nothing.

[jonnyk5614]

The overtake on the winding road was, nevertheless, completely illegal (being on double yellows).

On the plus side, we can now go "but TV3 said it was fine" whenever anyone tells us off :D

[Swoop]

The overtake on the winding road was, nevertheless, completely illegal (being on double yellows).

People need to remember that it is completely legal to overtake on double yellow lines.
You must not cross over the yellow lines, however.

[rastuscat]

The problem as I see it is the perception of other road users and their unwillingness to admit that they are completely clueless when it comes to motorcycles.

The perception of others is not a reason to adjust one's behaviour. Unless you want people to have a bit more respect for us as a group of motorcyclists.

If you want to just keep alienating other motoring groups, don't change your behaviour.

I've added a few words for you. Just puts a different view.

[swbarnett]

I've added a few words for you. Just puts a different view.
To give context to my reply this is what was added:

Unless you want people to have a bit more respect for us as a group of motorcyclists.

If you want to just keep alienating other motoring groups, don't change your behaviour.

So I should never do anything that's seen as "a stupid thing to do" by the clueless public at large?

That rules out Sir Ed. With that thinking he'd just be this guy from NZ that nobody's ever heard of.

One cannot please everyone all the time - It's just not possible. The only thing we can do is act as we see fit in a manner that harms no-one and hang the way some blind idiots perceive it.

[jonnyk5614]

People need to remember that it is completely legal to overtake on double yellow lines.
You must not cross over the yellow lines, however.

Totally agree - the guy was well over the yellows though!

[nelubian]

Hi, at the picture below:
1. Red line is a motorcycle track
2. Blue car moves to the right lane without indication unexpectedly
3. Blue car hits the motorcycle in the pink circle

http://s4.postimg.org/l5wimm70d/lane.png

Question is: who is guilty and why from the legal point of view?

[haydes55]

Hi, at the picture below:
1. Red line is a motorcycle track
2. Blue car moves to the right lane without indication unexpectedly
3. Blue car hits the motorcycle in the pink circle


Question is: who is guilty and why from the legal point of view?

The motorcyclist was drunk, looking at the bikes path...

The overtaking vehicle must make sure the overtake can be done safely blah blah blah.

Any lane change requires 3 seconds of indication.

You cannot overtake a vehicle on the left side, within their lane.

Who is legally liable is a grey area. Both parties could end up with a ticket, insurance is another dilemma.

If traffic was stop, start, and you couldn't see the gap open, didn't see the car start to move, then you were splitting too fast, or weren't paying attention.

Not saying the motorbike is at fault, just saying it could have been avoided.

[swbarnett]

Hi, at the picture below:
...
http://s4.postimg.org/l5wimm70d/lane.png

Is it just me or is your picture broken?

Edit: It's me. That'll teach me to surf at work...

[nelubian]

Not saying the motorbike is at fault, just saying it could have been avoided.

Couldn't. The motorcyclist was drunk. So what about the insurance and legislations?

[jamuels]

Question is: who is guilty and why from the legal point of view?

I KNOW - you go do it and tell us all about the court case, cause that is the only place you will get the legal point of view.
Who knows someone may sponsor you?

[jonnyk5614]

Biker can overtake on the left, if traffic is stationary.

"2.8 Passing on left
(1) A driver must not pass or attempt
to pass on the left of another
vehicle moving in the same
direction except in accordance
with this clause.
(2) In any case in which the
movement referred to sub clause
(1) may be made,—
(a) the 2 vehicles must be in
different lanes; or
(b) the overtaken vehicle must be
stationary or its driver must
have given or be giving
the prescribed signal of that
driver’s intention to turn right;"


Biker can overtake on the right, with due regard and consideration

"2.7 Passing on right
A driver must not pass or attempt to
pass on the right of another vehicle
moving in the same direction when—
(a) approaching or crossing an
intersection unless—
(i) the roadway is marked in lanes
and the driver can make the
movement without the driver’s
vehicle encroaching on a lane
available for opposing traffic;
or
(ii) in any other case, the driver
can make the movement
with safety and with due
consideration for users of the
intersecting road; or"


Driver must indicate for 3 secs before changing lane.

"A driver who intends to turn or move to the right or to draw out from a kerb on the left side of the vehicle must signal for at least 3 seconds either—
(a)by means of an approved signalling device; or
(b)if an arm signal can be clearly seen from both the front and the rear of the vehicle, by extending the right arm directly outwards in a horizontal position."



Driver in the wrong but how fast were you going????

[caspernz]

Question is: who is guilty and why from the legal point of view?

I KNOW - you go do it and tell us all about the court case, cause that is the only place you will get the legal point of view.
Who knows someone may sponsor you?

Yes I'd love to know any such outcome. I highly suspect a lot will hinge on how the accident report was written up, and the attitude of the individual doing the write-up.

[nelubian]

Biker can overtake on the left, if traffic is stationary.

"2.8 Passing on left
(1) A driver must not pass or attempt
to pass on the left of another
vehicle moving in the same
direction except in accordance
with this clause.
(2) In any case in which the
movement referred to sub clause
(1) may be made,—
(a) the 2 vehicles must be in
different lanes; or
(b) the overtaken vehicle must be
stationary or its driver must
have given or be giving
the prescribed signal of that
driver’s intention to turn right;"


Biker can overtake on the right, with due regard and consideration

"2.7 Passing on right
A driver must not pass or attempt to
pass on the right of another vehicle
moving in the same direction when—
(a) approaching or crossing an
intersection unless—
(i) the roadway is marked in lanes
and the driver can make the
movement without the driver’s
vehicle encroaching on a lane
available for opposing traffic;
or
(ii) in any other case, the driver
can make the movement
with safety and with due
consideration for users of the
intersecting road; or"


Driver must indicate for 3 secs before changing lane.

"A driver who intends to turn or move to the right or to draw out from a kerb on the left side of the vehicle must signal for at least 3 seconds either—
(a)by means of an approved signalling device; or
(b)if an arm signal can be clearly seen from both the front and the rear of the vehicle, by extending the right arm directly outwards in a horizontal position."



Driver in the wrong but how fast were you going????

The speed was 10kmh. Mine case wasn't exactly like this, and it was resolved friendly. But I started speculating on the case, because it seems to me pretty typical.
According to your extractions motorcycles "overtake" within the same lane. I've found determinations of "passing" and "overtaking" on the NZTA web site (Appendix 3E from 2007 (https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/appendix-3e-passing-overtaking-policy/docs/passing-overtaking-appendix-3e.pdf))
It looks like if the motorcycle's wheels were on the right lane then motorcycle was really overtaking, BUT right lane car within the right lane, which was stationary all the time.
And technically the blue car (even if it indicated) is wrong in this situation anyway. But what moment and which position is taken to consideration is unclear. And how is considered that the motorcycle (when filtering) constantly changes lanes?

[jamuels]

Nice diagram by the way.
My take on it is I will always lane split in slow traffic as I want to get home a lot quicker than those in their cars, not recommended but I have weighed up all the pros and cons and if I was not to then I might as well take my car.
Yes I have had a slight altercation, broke the other motorists wing mirror ( Van ), they did change lanes without indicating or looking, didnt come off bike, hurled abuse and carried on - never saw them again.
My only advice if you do it is to have your RIGHT indicator on - so you can claim you were overtaking on their right and makes you more visible to those that look in thier mirrors.
Accept the ticket if you get one.
Accept the fact that everyone will cut you off, pull out on you and U turn in front of you. You will not win they have more mass than you.
Had one guy hog 2 lanes so I couldnt lane split - moved over to the far left and went down there, he realised where I was and pushed me into the emergency lane by swerving into me to try and cut me off.
Must have been having a bad hair day. Got past and gave him a friendly wave.:Punk::bleh:
Lane split and get home quicker or maybe not at all - your choice.

[Gooz]

Nothing new under the sun, but got pulled over by MB cops yesterday at 5 pm (Auckland SH1 on-ramp, from Wellesley St E). Got the 'new sheriff in town' talk and that there will be zero tolerance for any filtering at a cost of $150 going forward. Seems a bit at odds with the last one I got a couple of months ago (cop car on SH1 around Takapuna, going South), that suggested I stay at less than 30 km/h when traffic slows down, but I'm guessing there is either a new enforcement doctrine or new staff?

[Big Dog]

They just had a class of recruits graduate. Related?

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[swbarnett]

Nothing new under the sun, but got pulled over by MB cops yesterday at 5 pm (Auckland SH1 on-ramp, from Wellesley St E). Got the 'new sheriff in town' talk and that there will be zero tolerance for any filtering at a cost of $150 going forward. Seems a bit at odds with the last one I got a couple of months ago (cop car on SH1 around Takapuna, going South), that suggested I stay at less than 30 km/h when traffic slows down, but I'm guessing there is either a new enforcement doctrine or new staff?
Do you mean filtering (past stationary traffic to the front of the queue) or lane-splitting?

[Gooz]

Do you mean filtering (past stationary traffic to the front of the queue) or lane-splitting?

He spoke about filtering, but I'd assume he meant lane-splitting as passing stationary traffic should be legal, although it might be hard to argue the difference on a motorway unless it is at a city-wide standstill. (He also mentioned something about it taking him 18 months to get certified for filtering, which I assume means passing moving traffic as a motorbike cop?)

[rastuscat]

They just had a class of recruits graduate. Related?

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Recruits don't get to ride patrol bikes.

[Big Dog]

Recruits don't get to ride patrol bikes.
I did wonder why he got pulled by Milton Bradley cops.



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[Moise]

He spoke about filtering, but I'd assume he meant lane-splitting as passing stationary traffic should be legal, although it might be hard to argue the difference on a motorway unless it is at a city-wide standstill. (He also mentioned something about it taking him 18 months to get certified for filtering, which I assume means passing moving traffic as a motorbike cop?)
So if it's not legal, how can they do it? Or is it only done in emergency situations with lights and sirens?

[swbarnett]

So if it's not legal, how can they do it? Or is it only done in emergency situations with lights and sirens?
Probably. In which case they can't claim to be half as safe as a rider that does it every day.

[willytheekid]

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/8da8ef_71748bb75a274e0d89f0a9f9dcfc52db.jpg_256

:laugh:


ps..."18 months to get certified for filtering"...really??...to learn how to filter!...no bloody wonder Rastuscat left

[Gooz]

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/8da8ef_71748bb75a274e0d89f0a9f9dcfc52db.jpg_256

:laugh:


ps..."18 months to get certified for filtering"...really??...to learn how to filter!...no bloody wonder Rastuscat left

Adding fuel to the flames: http://motorbikewriter.com/victoria-police-lane-filtering/

[Moise]

It's legal in most Australian states. As usual, we are way behind.

[swbarnett]

It's legal in most Australian states. As usual, we are way behind.
What they're talking about is filtering, not lane splitting. Filtering (past stationary traffic) is already legal here.

[Moise]

What they're talking about is filtering, not lane splitting. Filtering (past stationary traffic) is already legal here.
Thanks, I thought both were illegal here.

[swbarnett]

Thanks, I thought both were illegal here.
From what I've gathered (backed up by bits of legislation that have been posted). Filtering past stationary traffic is legal. Lane-splitting is legal as long as you stay fully within the lane of the vehicle on your left (good luck with that).

[MarkH]

What they're talking about is filtering, not lane splitting. Filtering (past stationary traffic) is already legal here.

Are you sure that is what they are talking about?


Road Policing Assistant Commissioner Doug Fryer says the bikes will be used in areas with high volumes of traffic where they will be able to filter through slow and stationary vehicles.

Or are you just assuming everyone uses the term the same way that you do?

[swbarnett]

Are you sure that is what they are talking about?
Well, I was. When this was made legal for the first time in Aus everything I read talked about filtering to the front of the queue at intersections.


Or are you just assuming everyone uses the term the same way that you do?
I actually wasn't clear what the term meant until I read the info provided as mentioned above.

Having looked at the the actual rules it's no absolutely clear but the definition of filtering below from the NSW transport web site does suggest it is what I'm talking about.


"Lane filtering is when a motorcycle rider moves alongside vehicles that have either stopped or are moving slowly (less than 30 km/h)".
The video that is above this also seems to support this.

[Moise]

There is nothing in the Vic rules that requires the traffic to be stationary. But the motorcycle can't travel at more then 30 km/h. Quite how the police could measure that speed is beyond me, but it would be pretty obvious if it was well above 30.

Someone else can read the rules for the other states!

[J.A.W.]

There is nothing in the Vic rules that requires the traffic to be stationary. But the motorcycle can't travel at more then 30 km/h. Quite how the police could measure that speed is beyond me, but it would be pretty obvious if it was well above 30.

Someone else can read the rules for the other states!

Actually the Vic rules provide for overtaking on the left of a vehicle in the same lane - to be in stationary traffic only ( unless the car is slowing & making a right turn).

[Daffyd]

Interesting that they've introduced lane filtering through stationary traffic to apprehend speeding motorists. Sitting still too fast perhaps?

[cheshirecat]

He spoke about filtering, but I'd assume he meant lane-splitting as passing stationary traffic should be legal, although it might be hard to argue the difference on a motorway unless it is at a city-wide standstill. (He also mentioned something about it taking him 18 months to get certified for filtering, which I assume means passing moving traffic as a motorbike cop?)I was despatch rider in London for a few years and there was a phrase for newbies "gone by lunchtime". You don't get paid for having an accident and lanesplitting/filtering is an essential skill, especially 10/12 hours a day 5 days a week winter and summer. One could figure out which car was about to turn right 100 meters ahead before or if they used their indicators. If you want to live it's not a question of going fast, rather keeping moving and getting to the front at lights.

[Tazz]

One could figure out which car was about to turn right 100 meters ahead before or if they used their indicators.

This is inevitably coming.



http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/9b/9b518d95a2fa2c4745bfb9172c55d89f2a49d26019796982a6 3309b2a915d1ed.jpg

:D

[GrayWolf]

Well, I was. When this was made legal for the first time in Aus everything I read talked about filtering to the front of the queue at intersections.


I actually wasn't clear what the term meant until I read the info provided as mentioned above.

Having looked at the the actual rules it's no absolutely clear but the definition of filtering below from the NSW transport web site does suggest it is what I'm talking about.


The video that is above this also seems to support this.

NOT above 30kph. THAT, RIGHT THERE, is the reason we get friggin hammered for lane splitting, I lost count ??????? ago, how often i see bikes cutting through, lane splitting, on the Hutt Motorway when traffic is doing 70-80kph anyway. I'd be pulling them over and dishing out a 'toll' for stupidity as well.

[swbarnett]

NOT above 30kph. THAT, RIGHT THERE, is the reason we get friggin hammered for lane splitting, I lost count ??????? ago, how often i see bikes cutting through, lane splitting, on the Hutt Motorway when traffic is doing 70-80kph anyway. I'd be pulling them over and dishing out a 'toll' for stupidity as well.
What's important is the speed differential. Splitting 70kph traffic at 100kph done properly is just as safe as splitting stationary traffic at 30kph1. For the same reason it's possible to play table tennis in a moving train2.



1Safer in fact as you're not likely to get car doors opening at 70kph.

2As long as the train is moving smoothly at a constant speed.

[Mike.Gayner]

Same reason I don't panic that my Air New Zealand fettuccine is travelling at 900km/h as I'm shovelling it into my mouth.

[Runty]

Same reason I don't panic that my Air New Zealand fettuccine is travelling at 900km/h as I'm shovelling it into my mouth.
I'd only panic if that same fettuccine was doing 900km/h when its exiting from my arse

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[5ive]

I'd only panic if that same fettuccine was doing 900km/h when its exiting from my arse

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk


I'd only panic if you were the person serving it to him.

[Big Dog]

NOT above 30kph. THAT, RIGHT THERE, is the reason we get friggin hammered for lane splitting, I lost count ??????? ago, how often i see bikes cutting through, lane splitting, on the Hutt Motorway when traffic is doing 70-80kph anyway. I'd be pulling them over and dishing out a 'toll' for stupidity as well.
That didn't stop the dude in very new looking gear on a very new looking bike who had clearly taken Sons of Anarchy as gospel from lane splitting past us as we sat on 100 (GPS speed) on Sunday.

Abject terror in his eyes, wobble in his ride and a lack of wear on his leather indicate that I may not be being too quick to judge.

In truth if we hadn't moved left he would have hit us. Ditto another car to the right.
Safe? No. Lucky? Yes.

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[GrayWolf]

What's important is the speed differential. Splitting 70kph traffic at 100kph done properly is just as safe as splitting stationary traffic at 30kph1. For the same reason it's possible to play table tennis in a moving train2.



1Safer in fact as you're not likely to get car doors opening at 70kph.

2As long as the train is moving smoothly at a constant speed.

I disagree with that, and know tim {UK Popo instructor} did as well..... rule of 'thumb' we were given, agreed 10-15mph [ 20km] speed differential, but oncetraffic reached 30mph/50km, dont lane split.
Rational?? Once traffic is 'moving' at a reasonablespeed, motorists are likely'to be 'less observant'?? in side mirrors, and more importantly, if they decide to lane dive, the car reacts to steering input so much faster it is unlikely YOU will have time to react. So No, I'd never advocate lane splitting above what I was told by a man I'd consider 'expert'.

[Moi]

...For the same reason it's possible to play table tennis in a moving train2.

2As long as the train is moving smoothly at a constant speed.


Must try that next time I'm travelling on a Frecciarossa...

[pzkpfw]

I disagree with that, and know tim {UK Popo instructor} did as well..... rule of 'thumb' we were given, agreed 10-15mph [ 20km] speed differential, but oncetraffic reached 30mph/50km, dont lane split.
Rational?? Once traffic is 'moving' at a reasonablespeed, motorists are likely'to be 'less observant'?? in side mirrors, and more importantly, if they decide to lane dive, the car reacts to steering input so much faster it is unlikely YOU will have time to react. So No, I'd never advocate lane splitting above what I was told by a man I'd consider 'expert'.

That's why I always feel safer when the traffic is busier. No gaps means no lane diving.


I'll admit to using lane splitting (in the past) to "do the speed limit"; rationalising to myself that as long as I'm "just" going up to the speed limit, it's all OK. I've been in traffic doing 80 and split past doing 100. Nowadays I've calmed that down a bit. If the traffic is 60-70 or faster, I normally get in line and don't split.

Does lead to interesting situations. I've split down the gorge, and had bikes in front of me pop between cars to let me past - then been passed by those same bikes when we get down to the flat-straight parts of the motorway when the traffic is faster and I've gotten in line (and this has happened a few times now, with the temporary 70 km/h limit).

[swbarnett]

Once traffic is 'moving' at a reasonablespeed, motorists are likely'to be 'less observant'?? in side mirrors,
If I'm lane splitting I look out for myself and don't expect anyone else to (as is always the case when I'm on the road) so this doesn't really factor in.


if they decide to lane dive, the car reacts to steering input so much faster
I worked out the geometry on this. You are right. For a given angle of travel relative to the lane direction (when a vehicle changes lanes) the sideways speed is directly proportional to the car's forward speed i.e. double the car's forward speed and the lane change will happen twice as fast. Of course it also follows on from this that the greater the angle the faster the sideways speed.

It does seem that things are not quite as relative as I'd first thought.


it is unlikely YOU will have time to react.
For a lane splitter that is blithely barreling along with little or no situational awareness I would agree. However, like all things (including riding in the first place) a rider needs to know what's going on around them in order to stay alive. A vehicle is extremely unlikely to lane dive if there is no gap to dive into. This means that going between two vehicles is relatively safe as long as the rider is aware of the "attitude" of both vehicles. What you describe becomes a problem where there is a gap to dive into. This is one of the core principles of safe lane-splitting - "Mind the gap". When splitting I will move into the gap rather than continue on a straight line and put myself right next to the vehicle that is the main threat in this circumstance.

The above I can attest from personal experience. I have come VERY close to being taken out by a lane diver. This taught me to respect the gap in no uncertain terms. Since then I've not had one near miss.

[Big Dog]

That said I have seen a number of lane changes where the driver is so focused on getting past the car in front the didn't see the b train beside them.

A couple of times I have had to occupy the space between two trailers and get on the horn because the tin top in a hurry either didn't look at all or assumed there was only one trailer.

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[swbarnett]

That said I have seen a number of lane changes where the driver is so focused on getting past the car in front the didn't see the b train beside them.
While I've not had this sort of thing I have made the deliberate decision to not split past a particular pair of vehicles because I could not tell what they were about to do.

My father drummed into me the first principle of driving (any vehicle) - "If in doubt, DON'T"

[Big Dog]

Amen to that

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[Swoop]

Once traffic is 'moving' at a reasonablespeed, motorists are likely'to be 'less observant'?
As opposed to the regular case of blindness at any speed (this includes 0kmh, too)?

Is the stupid/blind factor increasing as we gat closer to x-mas? I'm using the airhorns much more these days.

[Topes]

Goodmorning All

I read in a couple of comments around people being told that you should only be doing XX kph (talking about in NZ here), but reading the lecture and extracts from the act, it says say within the speed limit for the area aka posted speed limit (100k's on a motorway).

Yes, Yes, common sense prevails and you ride to the conditions, but if I read some of the comments correctly are we being told by the Police (in some cases) that you can only do a certain speed?

The reason I raise this is because I wonder how many new / returning riders like myself who are learning this skill at an uncomfortable slower speeds impact on confidence when riding because they feel they have to stick to a certain speed, or I'm talking completely out of my arse.

I've been through the Rider Forever courses which provided a great base for riding again on courses with new and experienced riders checking their skills and complimented that with a Hampton Down's track day to work on my counter steering and understand myself and my bike.

I've attached the Ride Forever information sheet on splitting filtering below for your perusal.

http://www.rideforever.co.nz/assets/Uploads/PDFs/ACC7009-RIDEFOREVER-Infosheet-FA.pdf

Cheers
Topes

[yevjenko]

Goodmorning All

I read in a couple of comments around people being told that you should only be doing XX kph (talking about in NZ here), but reading the lecture and extracts from the act, it says say within the speed limit for the area aka posted speed limit (100k's on a motorway).

Yes, Yes, common sense prevails and you ride to the conditions, but if I read some of the comments correctly are we being told by the Police (in some cases) that you can only do a certain speed?

The reason I raise this is because I wonder how many new / returning riders like myself who are learning this skill at an uncomfortable slower speeds impact on confidence when riding because they feel they have to stick to a certain speed, or I'm talking completely out of my arse.

I've been through the Rider Forever courses which provided a great base for riding again on courses with new and experienced riders checking their skills and complimented that with a Hampton Down's track day to work on my counter steering and understand myself and my bike.

I've attached the Ride Forever information sheet on splitting filtering below for your perusal.

http://www.rideforever.co.nz/assets/Uploads/PDFs/ACC7009-RIDEFOREVER-Infosheet-FA.pdf

Cheers
Topes
Just because it's under the speed limit doesn't mean you can't get pinged with dangerous driving

[Topes]

Yeah I get that really questioning around the actual speed limit vs what people are being told.


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[Ender EnZed]

Yeah I get that really questioning around the actual speed limit vs what people are being told.


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There is no official speed limit for lane splitting as distinct from the regular speed limit on any given bit of road. But you're many times more likely to get pulled over for a telling off and/or ticket for dangerous overtaking or similar if you're splitting at 100km/h than if you're splitting at 50km/h.

[Puffin' Billy]

I'm coming across a lot of cagers who ,while in the "fast lane" and in traffic, hug the left hand side of the lane making splitting impossible. This is specifically Aucklands southern motorway but i assume it happens everywhere else.
What are they doing? Are they just sub par drivers or are they purposely trying to make my life difficult?

I'm curious to know how you guys deal with this. Do you honk or give em some redline angst? Maybe you just say "fuck wits be fuck wits" and pass when the opportunity arises?

Would I be a fuckwit if i let them no i was less than impressed with their caging skills?

[Lelitu]

Would I be a fuckwit if i let them no i was less than impressed with their caging skills?

yes, yes you would. It's completely pointless, and does nothing but piss them off.
That never helps any.

Might make you feel better, certainly won't make them more helpful next time.

[Puffin' Billy]

I'm not dis-agreeing but i figure these people know what they're doing so it's unlikely to ever win them over.
Perhaps letting them know it's a fuckwit move by putting some heat on them MIGHT get a change in attitude.

The stupid thing is despite their efforts I still am long gone by the time they've travelled 100m, which is why i currently let sleeping dogs lie.

It does irk me that they no-doubt feel smug and righteous while doing it though.

[Lelitu]

I'm not dis-agreeing but i figure these people know what they're doing so it's unlikely to ever win them over.
Perhaps letting them know it's a fuckwit move by putting some heat on them MIGHT get a change in attitude.

The stupid thing is despite their efforts I still am long gone by the time they've travelled 100m, which is why i currently let sleeping dogs lie.

It does irk me that they no-doubt feel smug and righteous while doing it though.

they already know it's a fuckwit move, or are "trying to save you from your own stupidity"
Not worth stressing out about, just pass and move on.

In welly, the lanes are wide enough that there's usually still loads of room even when someone does pull hard left/right in their lane.

[rastuscat]

yes, yes you would. It's completely pointless, and does nothing but piss them off.
That never helps any.

Might make you feel better, certainly won't make them more helpful next time.
Folk forget that sometimes. They get so caught up in their own little self importance they burn other road users' attitude toward us all.

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[Maha]

I'm coming across a lot of cagers who ,while in the "fast lane" and in traffic, hug the left hand side of the lane making splitting impossible.

So why don't you pass on the right when you come across that situation?

[TheDemonLord]

I filter passed those guys on the back wheel....

Wheelies make sure that I don't clip my Wing mirrors....



But in all seriousness, I normally wait for them to meander back to the other side of the lane and then get passed, most of the time I don't even need to wait, just time it properly.

When there are two trucks however, that is when it gets interesting.

[swbarnett]

I hope you realise that they're perfectly within their rights to keep left within their lane? In fact that's exactly where they should be. If anyone is out of place it's the ones to the right of the lane.

Lane splitting is a privilege and my no means a right. First and foremost courtesy to other road users is required. Be thankful when a car driver leaves you room. If they don't then just wait in line or find another gap.

[iYRe]

I hope you realise that they're perfectly within their rights to keep left within their lane? In fact that's exactly where they should be. If anyone is out of place it's the ones to the right of the lane.

Lane splitting is a privilege and my no means a right. First and foremost courtesy to other road users is required. Be thankful when a car driver leaves you room. If they don't then just wait in line or find another gap.

^^

The road code say to stay as far left as possible. The problem isnt the people who are keeping left, its the idiots who are too far right. Right?

[Gremlin]

I'm coming across a lot of cagers who ,while in the "fast lane" and in traffic, hug the left hand side of the lane making splitting impossible. This is specifically Aucklands southern motorway but i assume it happens everywhere else.
What are they doing? Are they just sub par drivers or are they purposely trying to make my life difficult?
Overtaking on the left is actually illegal and carries a $150 fine...

[Maha]

Overtaking on the left is actually illegal and carries a $150 fine...

But but, if you have your right indicator going at the time of said manoeuvre, then technically you are overtaking the car on your left, which is legal.

[swbarnett]

^^

The road code say to stay as far left as possible. The problem isnt the people who are keeping left, its the idiots who are too far right. Right?
Exactly. If all the traffic kept left in their lane there'd be plenty of room (most of the time) to legally lane share to the right.

However, the real problem is self important riders that think they have a right to split no matter what.

[nzspokes]

Exactly. If all the traffic kept left in their lane there'd be plenty of room (most of the time) to legally lane share to the right.

However, the real problem is self important riders that think they have a right to split no matter what.

As long as you are not speeding the Popo wont pull you over anyway.

[swbarnett]

As long as you are not speeding the Popo wont pull you over anyway.
Agreed. I do it every day.

What urks me is the lack of courtesy shown sometimes. From both sides.

[Gooz]

For those who might have missed this article (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11594979) by Paul Charman.

It definitely won't end the discussion, but Carey Griffiths does have some authoritative insights (currently the ACC motorcycle guy, previously 30 years in the police much of it in road policing).

[Berries]

It definitely won't end the discussion, but Carey Griffiths does have some authoritative insights (currently the ACC motorcycle guy, previously 30 years in the police much of it in road policing).
Neither Carey or his BMW are narrow enough to filter.

[nzspokes]

For those who might have missed this article (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11594979) by Paul Charman.

It definitely won't end the discussion, but Carey Griffiths does have some authoritative insights (currently the ACC motorcycle guy, previously 30 years in the police much of it in road policing).

That article is not biased at all.:facepalm:

[Swoop]

"Above all, riders should get some training to avoid bad habits sure to get them into trouble one day."
So, ACC is going to offer up some training to filter and lane-split better?

Choice Bro!

[Gremlin]

But but, if you have your right indicator going at the time of said manoeuvre, then technically you are overtaking the car on your left, which is legal.
Not quite. Lets say you have a 3 lane motorway (they're always numbered from the left to right). All vehicles are moving and you're in lane 2, passing a car in lane 2 on its right, and in the same lane. Legal and an overtake (but there is also provision about having the space to be clear when completing the overtake).

All vehicles are moving and you're in lane 2, passing a car in lane 2 on its left and in the same lane. Yes, you are overtaking the car in lane 1, but you're also passing on the left in lane 2, and that's not legal, subject to $150 blah blah etc. Same thing (and more commonly) applies to lane 2 vs 3.

When cars are stationary, then you can pass on either side within the same lane, legally.