I've been thinking...

[PrincessBandit]

My wife has serious musical talent,it's just ''in'' her.She can play any instrument she picks up,and just knows the theoretical side of music inside and out.She can sight read unknown music,and transpose it to her clarinet as she goes.Yet if you ask her to just ''play'' something she cant,she needs the written stuff.Her brothers all play....but she can't ''jam'' with them,doesn't know how to do it.She was taught how to ride at a riding school,and is technically a good rider,and yet it all seems to be mechanical to her - she can't ''jam'' on a motorcycle.

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That sounds very familiar to me. I am classically trained (in music) and teach my chosen instruments as my occupation. I can sightread anything on any of them, play pretty well (don't like to blow my own trumpet - except that is one thing I don't actually play) but the limited "jamming" ability I have has been gleaned from long long years of playing and experience, not lessons in how to do it. It's not a natural talent thing for me, but it doesn't really bother me. We all have our different areas of specialising, and I'm happy with mine.

Relating that to biking, I am perfectly happy with the way I ride. That is not to say I don't feel there's room for improvement at all, in the same way any decent musician is always striving to improve regardless of their current ability. But I don't see the need for me to "push the boundaries" or achieve "milestones" that some seem to have as goals e.g. getting knee down, managing to pull a wheelie or stoppie. I'd be only too happy to have "lessons" in order to improve my very average riding skills, yet if I keep riding and gaining experience (good and bad) I will also learn my own lessons and that's sufficient for me at the moment.

[Ixion]

No,because we are ALL motorcyclists...y'know,that warm glowing family feeling.Are they some sort of bottom feeding scum and not worthy of your superior attention just because they ride a dirt bike? I don't see why I should pay for some wannabe sportsbike rider riding well beyond his ability on public roads either....but he rides a bike...so,he's one of us eh?

It's not so much a matter of 'paying'. If one is a taxpayer, one pays one way or other. The problem is that ACC say "there are only X number of registered motorcycles, and Y (big ) number of injuries. Gosh motorcycles are dangerous. Better have some more rules regulations and redtape for them". But, the Y number includes all the off road accidents. The X number doesn't. If they added in the offroad bikes the injury rate looks much better. And of course , all the RR&R fall on the road bikes, not the off roaders.

They need to count the off roaders.

[newbould]

It's not so much a matter of 'paying'. If one is a taxpayer, one pays one way or other. The problem is that ACC say "there are only X number of registered motorcycles, and Y (big ) number of injuries. Gosh motorcycles are dangerous. Better have some more rules regulations and redtape for them". But, the Y number includes all the off road accidents. The X number doesn't. If they added in the offroad bikes the injury rate looks much better. And of course , all the RR&R fall on the road bikes, not the off roaders.

They need to count the off roaders.

Or uncount the off roaders hospital bills.

[The Stranger:Me]

I don't see the problem - they are motorcycle accidents,caused by people riding motorcycles.So it gets put on motorcycle registration...um,that's where it needs to go.I'm paying for all the dickheads that crash motorcycles - it doesn't matter what or where they ride,I'm still paying for them.Take responsibility for motorcycling - the whole deal,because it's ALL us.

All good - except the off road riders frequently don't pay for registration and thus avoid ACC contributions.

So as a result. ACC take the cost of motorcycle related accidents and divide it by the number of registered motorcycles then inform us that we need to cough up more cause we are so bad.

So yes great lets all of us take responsibility, couldn't agree more this will require registering of all off road and farm bikes too. I'm all for it. Lower costs and more accurate accounting of ACC costs will follow.

Not sure if NZ is similar to Ausie, but I have seen stats indicating that in excess of half the bikes sold in aus are off road. I would sure appreciate a 50% reduction in my ACC reg component.

[Mom]

All good - except the off road riders frequently don't pay for registration and thus avoid ACC contributions.

So as a result. ACC take the cost of motorcycle related accidents and divide it by the number of registered motorcycles then inform us that we need to cough up more cause we are so bad.

So yes great lets all of us take responsibility, couldn't agree more this will require registering of all off road and farm bikes too. I'm all for it. Lower costs and more accurate accounting of ACC costs will follow.

Not sure if NZ is similar to Ausie, but I have seen stats indicating that in excess of half the bikes sold in aus are off road. I would sure appreciate a 50% reduction in my ACC reg component.

Here are the latest statistics from LTNZ (2007 mind you) showing the number of registered motorcycles in NZ.

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/sta.../table-31.html

So have you got any bright ideas how we find out how many off-road riders there are? I did some stuff on licenses too and have the data for the number of what class 6 there are, I think I even have the numbers of disqualified somewhere

Just thinking out loud here, should a levy be imposed at purchase then on all bikes that goes towards the ACC costs of ownership.

I think I might have to go and find some accident statistics

[Motu]

Off road bikes used to be registered,any bike sold,or brought into the country had a plate.I've had several MX and trials bikes that had plates - made it much easier to ride them on the road.The change came in around 1995 when the VIN came in.Of course the plate was constant,registered or unregistered,it always had a rego plate....unregistered for 10 years? Just go in and pay for rego,instant legal.The good old days eh?

Anyway - I look at off road as the biggest riding school in the country,if they are out there riding,they are far better riders for it....we all benifit....but some like to moan about it.

[Mom]

Off road bikes used to be registered,any bike sold,or brought into the country had a plate.I've had several MX and trials bikes that had plates - made it much easier to ride them on the road.The change came in around 1995 when the VIN came in.Of course the plate was constant,registered or unregistered,it always had a rego plate....unregistered for 10 years? Just go in and pay for rego,instant legal.The good old days eh?

Anyway - I look at off road as the biggest riding school in the country,if they are out there riding,they are far better riders for it....we all benifit....but some like to moan about it.

Wonder if I can get sales info from the distributors? I am sure we used to get a sales by make and model thing back when I was selling. Probably long since got by the wayside.

[98tls]

Anyway - I look at off road as the biggest riding school in the country,if they are out there riding,they are far better riders for it....we all benifit....but some like to moan about it.

Absolutely,nothing i can add really,says it all.

[The Stranger:Me]

Anyway - I look at off road as the biggest riding school in the country,if they are out there riding,they are far better riders for it....we all benifit....but some like to moan about it.

Yes a great riding school, though they also produce a great many injuries.
I must say, very generous of you Motu offering to pay for the free loaders, I could use a hand with my ACC, but somehow, I expect you would moan about paying that.

[98tls]

Yes a great riding school, though they also produce a great many injuries.
I must say, very generous of you Motu offering to pay for the free loaders, I could use a hand with my ACC, but somehow, I expect you would moan about paying that.

From my experience someone whos played around off-road before hitting the road is a way better bet than a first timer on a GN wobbling about in the direction of the next accident.

[The Stranger:Me]

From my experience someone whos played around off-road before hitting the road is a way better bet than a first timer on a GN wobbling about in the direction of the next accident.

I whole heartedly agree with you on that. All riders would benefit from some off road experience.

[Qkkid]

I whole heartedly agree with you on that. All riders would benefit from some off road experience.

I dont have a MEafter my KB name but i agree

[98tls]

I whole heartedly agree with you on that. All riders would benefit from some off road experience.

Theres the added benefit of learning to listen to your old man ie when i was 9 i was plodding about off-road on an SL125 Honda,the old man bought a brand new TL250 trials bike,he caught me eyeing it keenly and a "Oi..no fucken way" comment was yelled my way,it was all to much and next thing im on the thing in the paddock across from the house.All was good until as most 9 year olds do i guess i took it all to far and went racing up a bank got airborne then crashed to the ground with a set of 4 stroke single cooling fins branding my inner thigh for a good few secondsafter managing to get myself from under it i look across to the house to see the old man laughing it up.

[slofox]

If I may hark back to Mom's original post regarding natural talent and training:

In my experience, both as a teacher and as a learner, I am aware that neither one nor the other of those qualities works alone. You need both - some talent and some training - to be good at anything. It is often said that success is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration. My experience would back that up.

I have been riding on and off for over forty years. I have had gaps of some time without owning a bike, but have always thought of myself as a biker.
I don't know how much natural talent I had to start with and I have no idea how "good" I am now. But I have learned a helluva lot about riding throughout the years. I am still learning. A lot of what needs fixing, I am aware of, being focused on self diagnosis - not just in riding I might add. If I can't work out what to do to fix a problem, then I will seek advice, be it from a book, an article, this forum or an instructor. But I won't just ignore a problem and hope it goes away. About six months ago I did an advanced rider's course here and sure enough, Ward picked up exactly what I was concerned about and made some very sound suggestions which I still work on six months down the track.

The other thing about training your talent is patience. You don't need to be the ace today - tomorrow is soon enough. Or the day after that or the day after that. Rushing things doesn't work. Practice takes time. And time takes patience.

My partner and I dance (ballroom) at a competitive level. We have been at this for over ten years together and we still have to train five nights a week to be even acceptably good, let alone to be top dogs. Even Augusto Schiavo, when he was world professional champion (best dancer I ever saw incidentally) had trainers. Nobody ever knows it all. If you want your talent to be fully realised, you need training. Ongoing training.

The learning curve never ends.

[Motu]

Yes a great riding school, though they also produce a great many injuries.

Go to a Charity ride - say 700 riders,and yes there will be some injuries....Scott would know the figures if he can be bothered with this thread.Compare it to a KB Coro Loop....20 odd riders and a BTV.