If your job was to reduce road deaths what would you do?

[PirateJafa]

Mount a spike in the middle of the stearing wheel, I Gaurantee all drivers slow down

Oooo, eating a good kebab whilst driving. I like your thinking.

[oldrider]

Ask yourself this question:

If there were no rules or laws at all, how much differently would you ride your bike from the way you ride it now?

For myself, there would be very little change!

I endeavour to ride as safely as I can now, for my bike, for me and my passenger and with consideration for other road users ETC.

Speed is regulated in accordance with the above.

Currently are regarded as another roadside hazard to observe, avoid and negotiate safely past, mainly because they work for unrealistic employers! You and me!

[Slyer]

Ask yourself this question:

If there were no rules or laws at all, how much differently would you ride your bike from the way you ride it now?

For myself, there would be very little change!

I endeavour to ride as safely as I can now, for my bike, for me and my passenger and with consideration for other road users ETC.

Speed is regulated in accordance with the above.

Currently are regarded as another roadside hazard to observe, avoid and negotiate safely past, mainly because they work for unrealistic employers! You and me!

I would ride about the same in most places and faster in some like the motorway.

[Hinny]

Available evidence shows increasing speed limits results in lower road tolls.
Vigorous policing of speed limits and increased use of speed cameras result in higher road tolls.
Given this evidence I think there is a fairly simple remedy.

[Tony]

Available evidence shows increasing speed limits results in lower road tolls.
Vigorous policing of speed limits and increased use of speed cameras result in higher road tolls.
Given this evidence I think there is a fairly simple remedy.

Hinny can you quote a source reference for these interesting comments?

[Tony]

I am guessing that one of the problems is that many drivers are not alert to what is going on around them on the road.

I think one of the problems is that drivers are numbed at the wheel of modern cars. If your driving on the open road in a modern vehicle you pretty much only have to steer the thing and do the occassional braking and accellerating.

When I ride my bike I am constantly kept attentive by debri on the road, car drivers antics, my vulnerability and the need to find the right cornering line that I need to keep attentive.

I've done a fair mileage in the last two days driving a 7 tonne truck. I realised that it's also easy to stay alert driving this vehicle. To get it through corners at open road speed and maintain momentum (because lost speed takes so long to get back and I don't want to hold up other drivers) I need to actually 'drive' the vehicle through corners.

What do I mean by 'drive' through corners? I need to pick the best line. I need to brake in the best possible place. I need to transfer weight to the front wheels at the moment I begin turn in to get the best turn in, etc.

In modern cars I don't need to do any of this and I don't need to watch way up the road, etc. This means I can let my mind drift on to other things not associated with driving.

Let's mandate 165 crossplys on all cars.

[Ixion]

'S'obvious, really, idden it?

If you want to reduce road deaths, when there's a crash, just drag the victims off the road into the bushes and let them die there. Ain't a road death then, is it?

[sAsLEX]

I would hold someone accountable for the absolute crap standard of road surfaces we have in New Zealand.

I would create a minimum standard/utilise a standard for all roads built/repaired.

I would not utilise road side barriers that have been banned elsewhere in the world.

I would not yellow line for the sake of it, as they are there to indicate a hazard that might no be apparent, not to reduce the road toll as they are blanketely used today.

I would refocus the anti speeding focus and spending.

[cold comfort]

Hinny can you quote a source reference for these interesting comments?

"Scared to Death, The Anatomy of a Very Dangerous Phenomenon" by Christopher Booker and Richard North. Australian stats showed a paradoxical INCREASE in road traffic crash/death with the introduction of speed restriction/policing.

[sAsLEX]

"Scared to Death, The Anatomy of a Very Dangerous Phenomenon" by Christopher Booker and Richard North. Australian stats showed a paradoxical INCREASE in road traffic crash/death with the introduction of speed restriction/policing.

Raising of the speed limit on some US roads also resulted in few crashes and deaths.

But lets not let the facts get in the way of a policy they have been spouting for years.

[Hinny]

Of the 40 states that raised the limit in the USA there was a three to one reduction in the road toll.
This reduction was not mirrored in those states that kept to 55mph.
There are a myriad of reasons suggested as to why this perceived paradox occurs.

Tony's comments on the attention needed to drive a truck could be the same sort of thing that keeps drivers attentive when driving faster.

Of note is the Australian Northern Territories experience.
The imposition of a speed limit and active policing of that limit with cameras and the Speed Kills policy adoption. Result: a 50% increase in road deaths.

It is inappropriate speed for the conditions that causes crashes.

Trucks are involved in a huge proportion of fatal crashes and they wreck the roads.
The adoption of a 52 ton limit for trucks will lead to massive public expenditure for private gains.
Another dopey policy adoption?

[The Stranger:Me]

Australian stats showed a paradoxical INCREASE in road traffic crash/death with the introduction of speed restriction/policing.

I know how to fix that. Lower the speed limits an increase policing, that'll fix it.

[Mikkel]

Ban automatics.

Make speeding an offense only if it creates a hazardous situation.

Install red-light runner cameras. (instant disqualification for running reds - or at least 75 demerits)

Remove subjective charges such as careless, reckless and dangerous driving. Or at least shift the burden of evidence onto the prosecution.

Colour all grit fluourescent green. Deploy street sweepers to clear grit once ice hazards has passed.

Enforce medication of repeat drink drivers with antabus.

Introduce a proper licensing system instead of the current joke. Require all current license holders to resit their tests inside a 2 year period. A fail and it's back to school if you want to retain your license.

Introduce real consequences for operating a vehicle without WOF or registration and for operating a vehicle which you are not licensed for.

Expropriation of vehicles if unable to pay fines incurred while operating them.

Abolish the silly give-way rule. (You know which one I am talking about... evidence enough.)

Mandatory day-time running lights.

Mandatory 3rd party insurance. (If you think yourself infallible you are an idiot and needs managing - if you don't you already have 3rd party insurance.)


...and I'm just getting started. There's heaps of things that could be done and plenty of them that would be easy enough to implement as well. Driver training is at the root though - but it is not easy to fix properly.

[Tony]

"Scared to Death, The Anatomy of a Very Dangerous Phenomenon" by Christopher Booker and Richard North. Australian stats showed a paradoxical INCREASE in road traffic crash/death with the introduction of speed restriction/policing.

You and Hinny are just talking B.S?

I decided to take up the challenge and read up a little on your source.

I discovered this brief synopsis on the source you quote http://www.kwengineering.org/TeleCameras.pdf.

So, Ok maybe there is some truth in what you are saying.

In some of the recent research I did into the 70km/h learner restriction I discovered that there appears to be no road safety research being conducted in N.Z.

Do a search on "road safety research" in google within N.Z. to see what I mean.

Yes I found the road safety trust, and I found that they offer funds for research ...but where is the research that is the result of this? The closest thing we have to reserach is the "Down with speed document" which quotes from overseas research.

The police have a statistics department but it doesn't appear to use these as a foundation for commencing research. I also discovered that the police are shockingly bad at statistical collection (and a lot of the information they collect is never even entered into a database!) so statistical analysis is consequently all but impossible in many areas

At the best of times statistical anaylyses is fraught with problems. For example statistics have been used to show that there is no evidence that riders who opt to attend voluntary practical defensive driving courses have a lower fatality result than riders who do not attend these courses. However what reporters of the quoted statistics don't show is that the people who opt to go on these course fall predominently into the demographic of 15-25 year old adrenalin seeking males.

Raw statistics and research are two very different things.

Everyone on this thread has some road saftey ideas that they really believe in just like the ideas our law makers and ministers have. But genuine road safety needs to start with research ... not a request by Steven Joyce for submissions from uninformed people (like you and me and the police, etc).

I have come to the conclusion that traffic safety policy and the associated laws are politically inspired rather than inspired by a real desire to reduce fatalities and injuries.

I feel that the opinions of members of this forum are of no value as this forum is not read by any of our policy or law makers. Posting your ideas here may be a waste of time.

I get the feeling that many (most) of the police I have been discussing road safety issues with in the last 12 months have long since given up and don't believe that they can have a genuine role/effect in lowering road injuries and fatalities.

You need to post your ideas on a traffic safety discussion forum. Is there such a thing in New Zealand? The safeas forum web site (http://www.safeas.govt.nz/) that the government initiated but has now locked/closed was probably the closest thing we had to a public and open online forum.

[James Deuce]

However what reporters of the quoted statistics don't show is that the people who opt to go on these course fall predominently into the demographic of 15-25 year old adrenalin seeking males.

Done any courses? Not trackdays I mean, but actual courses. They fall into two camps. People traversing the licensing programme and a small number of people, usually 30s to 50s, brushing up on their skills.

NZ's democratic system is based on the Westminster Parliamentary system and despite the Bill of Rights and what people would like to believe, indivduals have no rights and no influence on Government, other than at election time.

They don' need no steekeen research. They know best.