So motorcycle deaths are overrepresented

[Ixion]

OK It's a blatent lie. Based on MoTs own published stats for 2008

Check page 48 , which shows "Probable cause of crashes " (fatality and injury).

Yes, "Too fast for conditions " (note that this is NOT the same as 'Speeding' those vehicles might all have been within the speed limit, and a significant proportion certainly will be) is shown as 34% as per the Herald article. But that's only SECOND place , behind "Lost control" (40%).

And for all crashes , including injury, "Too fast for conditions" (15%) only scrapes into fifth place. Behind 'Failed to give way' (24%) , 'Lost control' (23%), Inattention (21%) , and 'Did not see other party' (20%).

No prizes for guessing who usually gets skittled in the 'Failed to give way', Inattention, and "SMIDSY" crashes.

And those MoT figures come from the CAS system, which reflects the police assignment of cause.

Since the Police crash investigations are not centred around finding the actual cause (like air accident investigations) , but rather around finding something to give someone a ticket for, one may reasonably expect that speeding would be overrepresented anyway.

[The Stranger:Me]

Unfortunately it doesn't take away from the fact that motorcycle deaths are actually over represented.

Sure the stats aren't pretty, but at what point do they get off saving me from myself? Yes it's a risk (riding a motorcycle), but it's mine to take, fuck off and leave me to it.
Now if I'm killing others, well they got a right to save them from me.

I would like to see stats for how many innocents were taken out by a motorcyclst and compare that to cars.

Despite their conjuring and smoke and mirrors accounting system a death has no monetary value, neither does a life. If a life has monetary value, how come China doesn't have the highest standard of living? Were it so simple the govt would be encouraging us to procreate furiously. Even in death there is a monetary silver lining - undertakers need work too.
They can't use that as justification for meddling in my life.

Fuck off and leave me to kill myself however I damn well please!

[Matt Bleck]

I wonder if single vehcile accidents may be caused in part by the fact that we have shit road surface/conditions?

[Blackbird]

I wonder if single vehcile accidents may be caused in part by the fact that we have shit road surface/conditions?

And equally shit forward observation skills?

[YellowDog]

Herald on line: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10598593.

The normal bland assertions without decent stats to analyse root cause. Even so, it seems to me that almost no-one in officialdom is prepared to come out and say that driving standards (skills) in the shape of situational awareness need to be raised across the board, whether it be car or bike owners. Until that's done IMHO, any other initiative will merely be window dressing.

Rant over

Yes I do agree. All we seem to get is constant moaning and no understanding of the problem or what to do about it.

Just saying that the problem is 'SPEED' is not enough.

Stopping a motorcyclist doing 120mph on a straight piece of road with no other traffic around is not addressing the problem.

A motorcyclist doing 50kph around an unmarked tight blind bend is not illegal however it is far more likely to result in a serious injury. I'm thinking about the guy on a motorbike I had to avoid killing on the Paremoremo road last week. The bend was too tight and he had to drift into my lane by so far that he almost left the road. I swung my car into his lane to aviod the collision.

I do wish that the authorities would put some effort into identifying what it is that causes accidents and then do something about it.

When a motorcyclist is murdered by an ignorant or drunken car driver, why does this impact negatively on motorcyclists? It happens a lot.

[Katman]

Based on MoTs own published stats for 2008

Check page 48 , which shows "Probable cause of crashes " (fatality and injury).

Can't open the link for some reason but do those figures include all motor vehicle accidents? If so, I'd be more interested how 'too fast for the conditions' ranks for 'motorcycle only' accidents.

Fuck off and leave me to kill myself however I damn well please!

If the rest of us didn't have to suffer the backlash of that happening, I might be prepared to agree with you.

[MarkH]

Not that I'm naive enough to expect a positive outcome but I actually dashed off an email to Steven Joyce this morning, simply because by doing nothing, nothing will change.

Good on you for taking the time to put your voice (so to speak) forward. I would say one thing about the cost of better driver training for new drivers - tough! It isn't like it costs close to as much here as it does in Germany.

I think if a teenager wants a drivers license then he/she should just put up with the cost of some decent quality courses that teach useful things to help keep everyone on the road a bit safer.

[tomobedlam]

Bugger off. Depends on the individual.
I had a full m.c licence at 15 + 6 weeks. And so did most of my peers at the time. Nothing scary about that.
OTOH There are people who've been driving on a full licence for years that I'd be nervous about.

Ok so what system and series of test do you propose to use to test the individual at 15 to see if they have they should have a full licence.

The reason I say that a 17 year old with a full licence (car or motorcycle) is scary is that frontal lobe of the brain is not fully developed until the early twenties. This is the part of the brain that helps you decide whether or not you should see how fast your new nsr250 can go down a suburban street or whether you should drive you and your car load of friends over the center of the roundabout instead of around it. Hence why insurance gets a bit cheaper when you turn 25. That said driver education can help with this, especially stuff that focuses on risk management, hazard identification and eye scanning (where you are looking). Teaching vehicle control by itself increases risk as people think they are better drivers and drive faster.

[MSTRS:Me]

I don't disagree with what you say. Just that no matter what age you place on eligibility for doing anything, some will measure up and some won't. It's always been that way, and I see nothing to make me think different of today's youth.
Training is good, but you'll still only make a small difference, because rider/driver behaviour can so often be a mood-thing.

[PirateJafa]

Can't open the link for some reason but do those figures include all motor vehicle accidents? If so, I'd be more interested how 'too fast for the conditions' ranks for 'motorcycle only' accidents.

You'll need to save it and open with Adobe Reader.

Here's the injury stats though. Pity that they didn't provide the same analysis for each group of road users as the did for the sum total.

[Waxxa]

a couple of comments...

the Labour Govt. made a target of 300 road deaths per year and it seems the National Govt. is going with this target as well.

Problem: population is growing=more vehciles on the road (average 2 or more vehicles per household)=more accidents, more fatalites. The Govt needs to revise this figure to a percentage of carnage equating to the increased vehciles on the road (so instead of sticking to the 300 target, you have say 5% as a target) and be realistic about future growth on our roads.

Motorcyclists are over represented at the moment because of all the 'Weekend Wannabe Bikers' that may have had a full bike license for '20+' years but have now come back to bikes which outperform the machines that they rode back '20+' years ago and within weeks or months have an accident, get injured or killed. And there are recent posts on KB stating exactly this scenario from those riders that have crashed themselves...and you know who you are.

Possible solution: re-license (if you haven't ridden for say 3years) , cc restriction for a time period.

As a road using 'group' we must also take our share of personal responsibility in the way we ride as individuals too in that we ride within our selves and machine capabilities and if you have a pillion along, well, now you have someone elses' life in your hands and to keep that in mind.

[Quasievil]

Motorcyclists are over represented at the moment because of all the 'Weekend Wannabe Bikers' that may have had a full bike license for '20+' years but have now come back to bikes which outperform the machines that they rode back '20+' years ago and within weeks or months have an accident, get injured or killed. And there are recent posts on KB stating exactly this scenario from those riders that have crashed themselves...and you know who you are.

My 1972 tc100 had a throttle that you could hold open or close, the speed changed accordingly, Im fairly sure this concept still exists on modern bikes (certainly mine it does), how would re licensing someone with a brain change this.

[Katman]

You'll need to save it and open with Adobe Reader.

Still can't open it for some reason but...........

If those stats are for all motor vehicle accidents can we assume that Ixion is just putting his (or should I say BRONZ's) particular 'head in the sand' spin on things?

[monkeymcbean]

Sure the stats aren't pretty, but at what point do they get off saving me from myself? Yes it's a risk (riding a motorcycle), but it's mine to take, fuck off and leave me to it.
Now if I'm killing others, well they got a right to save them from me.

I would like to see stats for how many innocents were taken out by a motorcyclst and compare that to cars.

Despite their conjuring and smoke and mirrors accounting system a death has no monetary value, neither does a life. If a life has monetary value, how come China doesn't have the highest standard of living? Were it so simple the govt would be encouraging us to procreate furiously. Even in death there is a monetary silver lining - undertakers need work too.
They can't use that as justification for meddling in my life.

Fuck off and leave me to kill myself however I damn well please!

As a doctor quoted to me, some people smoke for pleasure, some people ride motorbikes.....this satisfied me no end.
Im sure it could be said for people who are over weight and have heart issues etc etc.

[Ixion]

Pity that they didn't provide the same analysis for each group of road users as the did for the sum total.

They did .