So, wodda we going to do about? It's down to us

[Ixion]

So, ACC want to put up our levies.

It's not fair and it's not justified

And we are going to fight them all the way

No doubt about that

But- crunchy time here, the reality is that the fundamental problem, and the one that gives the ACC the ability to attack us, is that we, collectively are falling off our bikes far too often. And smashing ourselves up far too much

When we go to see the Minister, and even more later when we really start fighting (it's all just gentle tickling until the 17th), we need more than "Wah, it's not fair we don't want to pay".

We need some solidly based initiatives that we can put forward to seriously keep bikes upright. Maybe not just things e do, things that we can say that other road users ought to do count also. Maybe things we need to do ourselves.

But they need to be more than airy fairy ideas. They need to be solid, researched, feasible ideas.

So. if your 16 year kid came along and said "Mum, Dad, I'm going to get a motorbike". You love him (gawd knows why, no 16 year old kid is loveable, but somehow parents manage it). You don't really want to see him mangled on a slab.

So, if you were dictator , what would you do to give him a better chance of staying alive?

And bear in mind please that it's not possible to change human nature. Idiots will continue to be idiots. And it's not always the other guy's fault.

Sensible ideas please.

I'll extract what is worthwhile from the train wreck and put it into the manifesto social group.

[kave]

Better training and stricter licence requirements. Licence testers should hold motorcycle licences or the whole process is a joke.

[MSTRS:Me]

More gear requirement. I wear all the gear etc, to mitigate severity of injury. Why should I 'subsidise' the plonker in t-shirt, shorts and jandals?

[crazyhorse]

Well, all you gotta do is look at the Stuff.co.nz website and take notice of the amount of road deaths in the last couple of days, to realise that they are all cars (haven't seen any bikes, so if I'm wrong, sorry).

Teenagers are even more likely to get smashed up in cars than on a bike. Reason, you ask? Well, they either ride alone enroute somewhere, or ride with groups - normally slightly older people, who are not idiots when there are young people around, and encourage all the good behaviour on rides. ( I sure did)

My kids both ride bikes, and have cars. I would much rather my son goes on the bike than in his car - it has too much power, and he likes to show off to his mates etc. And they can take passengers, who encourage the "lets go faster" or they drink while he drives etc.

I encourage kids to have bikes

[k2w3]

A 1/2-day basic rider training session on small bikes or scooters should be mandatory for ALL driver licence applicants, like the verbal and written tests are mandatory.

[Marmoot]

Stricter license requirements, increase licencing age to 17, driver test for every license extension, driver licensing every 5 years instead of 10, compulsory defensive riding course (theory and practical) before going full license.

[Ixion]

Would we (the biker community generally) wear a professional trainer requirement? So many hours of professional (ie paid for) training to get a licence.

At present any random can buy a bike , do the BHS, which a myoptic crippled granny could pass , and wobble around until he can pass the R test. May never have spoken to anyone who knows how to ride? Let alone had anything that could really be called training.

Just floating the idea mind, not saying I support it.

Motorcycle test by motorcyclist is a given

But bear in mind, all this makes it harder for new riders to get started. make it too hard and they just sya 'stuff this I'm getting a car"

or do you mean tougher licence tests for everyone. In which case are we as motorcyclists willing to lead the way ?

[mister.koz]

This may make me even less popular

Amongst other things my suggestions to ACC were:
change the licensing:

• Extend the learner and restricted licence periods
• Defensive driving and advanced driving should be a required part of the licensing scheme.
• Require more training for all licence holders
• Require that people sit a practical test every couple of years to keep their licence - some people really shouldn't be on the road
• Require that motorcyclists wear more than an approved helmet
• - Helmet - perhaps closed face
• - Jacket - with armour
• - Gloves - with armour
• - Boots - with armour

I came off a few weeks back [my fault, greasy road, not paying attention & following too close] I hit the road somewhere between 80km/h & 60km/h if I wasn't wearing good gloves, jacket and boots (all armoured) I would have broken a few body parts. Because I was wearing my gear all I got was a couple of bruises.

I think the biggest problems on the road are: lack of ability, apathy, ignorance and arrogance. All but the last one could be improved by training and awareness.

How many 40+ year old drivers who have never written a road code indicate badly?

How many people buy a road code every year and re-hash their knowledge?

[Marmoot]

From road safety: reduce the use of loose seal as road renewal method, reduction of blind corners, tighter control over alcohol-influenced drivers, harsher penalty to drink driving (crush the car after 3 repeat offense).

[Ixion]

A 1/2-day basic rider training session on small bikes or scooters should be mandatory for ALL driver licence applicants, like the verbal and written tests are mandatory.

But if someone has never ridden a pushbike or a manual transmission car that half hour is going to be pretty mechanical. Learning clutch and balance and stuff. Probably come away thinking that motorbikes are REALLY hard to ride, but with no insight into the issue swe face on the road.

[The Stranger:Me]

Insist that all diesel vehicles have a flap in the filler neck of the tank (as many holdens do standard) to act as a one way valve so when numpties forget to put the cap on we don't get the blame?

[Varkp]

To quote from the "The Dominion Post" dated Thuesday 3 November 2009, page A3 "Wellington toll hits decade high" bullet point 3

"A cyclist is 30 times more likely to be injured then someone in a car"

and they don't pay a cent toward acc levies ....

I WANT a reduction in my motorcycle levies as i find it VERY unfair to subsidise the pedal cyclists.

[mister.koz]

PS my licence suggestions are across the board, including cars, bikes and international drivers etc etc

I once got beeped and waved at by a camper van because they thought I was on their side of the road... bloody tourists!!!

[mashman]

Tougher penalties for getting it wrong... irrespective of age... If you're old enough to drive, you're old enough to suffer the consequences... crushed cars, jail time, testicular electro shock therapy for men and 20 minutes with the ugliest biker in the world for women (that'll last a lifetime)... Lack of personal responsibility is a killer on the roads...

[The Stranger:Me]

Would we (the biker community generally) wear a professional trainer requirement? So many hours of professional (ie paid for) training to get a licence.

Age old question - does training translate into safety?
The govt don't believe so. So how you going to sell this one?