Chance to have another go at the POPO

[Ixion]

Very technically difficult to do that on older vehicles, in a way that can't easily be bypassed.

If one wan'ted to be a devil's advocate one could suggest that if all NZ vehicles were governed to a max speed of (say) 120kph, and limited to (say) 50bhp for bikes and 100bhp for cars; except cop vehicles, then that would do it,and also probably have some beneficial effects on the road toll.

I'd VERY strongly oppose such a regime, but it's a slippery slope once you start down it.

[miloking]

I did. I boiled it down to the basics. Which are (in my eyes), police doing their job to protect the public, driver fails to pull over (chooses to ignore the laws required of them). Police persue said driver (could be anything from a little old lady who had an extra brandy at her friends to a child rapist with a boot load of 7yr olds). Driver fails to stop, crashes and dies. How can the police be to blame for that? Should they just have got his rego plate and waited until he disposed of the bodies and hope he opens his mail, or still lives at that address? Should the police have backed off until they received an evaluation of the driver?

Or should the driver just have pulled over when requested?

As much as we don't like certain road laws. As much as we think some police are arseholes. As much as we talk shit onlne about what wankers the police are but wouldn't say boo to their faces (does this sound like someone you know of?). As much as we think the laws don't apply to us, they do. You break them, that's your choice. But be prepared for the police to do their job, which is apprehending those that pose a risk to the general public. Sure, in an ideal world pursuits would always end with the criminal with his swagbag and mask apprehended and no one else involved/injured/killed. But in an ideal world there would have been no criminal in the first place...

Do you realy believe that rapist with boot load of 7yr olds will pull over because he is scared of some tougher penalty? So you are realy just targeting that old lady that had bit more brandy than she shouldnt...and we are back to square one.
Real offenders will never stop running until they are all dead or in jail!...and no amount of "tougher penalties" or "revisions of pursuit policies" is going to change that.

So real question is ARE YOU willing to risk lives of innocent people to pursue these serious offenders...till they crash and die and potentionaly take few people with them? Collateral damage in name of "justice" right?

I think its wrong!

BTW kill switch to stop cars? Every new technology can be bypassed/hacked..its only designed by people in the end.

[onearmedbandit]

Do you realy believe that rapist with boot load of 7yr olds will pull over because he is scared of some tougher penalty? So you are realy just targeting that old lady that had bit more brandy than she shouldnt...and we are back to square one.
Real offenders will never stop running until they are all dead or in jail!...and no amount of "tougher penalties" or "revisions of pursuit policies" is going to change that.

So real question is ARE YOU willing to risk lives of innocent people to pursue these serious offenders...till they crash and die and potentionaly taking few people with them? Collateral damage in name of "justice" right?

I think its wrong!

Where did I say I advocated tougher penalties for fleeing drivers? But I will say that if you are breaking the law while in your vehicle you should expect to get pulled over, and if you choose not to then you are the one endangering the public. Simple.

[miloking]

Go on then have another go at the POPO for pursuing a cage driver.

One more chase, one more death.

Whose fault is it, the POPO or the perpetrator?

NEITHER...

POPO is just following directions of scaly gentlewoman (thanks Ixion )

PERPETRATOR is just retarded and doesnt want to lose his car/bike/licence/job/money/freedom (so its almost understandable why he runs..so much at stake for price of so little)

WHO is at fault are people (politicians) that created pursuit policies, harsh punishments for traffic offences, harsh punishment for running (irony, i know but lots of people will impulsively start to run and then its hard to stop knowing you are going to jail anyway)...so all this made running worth while.

[Indoo]

harsh punishment for running .

And what harsh punishment would this be?

[The Stranger:Me]

It all stems from youngsters not respecting authority. That is the issue that needs fixing.

Be careful what you wish for.
Youngsters should challenge authority. That is a part of an evolving society. If youngsters don't challenge we wind up with a society like the aborigines in Ausie - 200,000 yrs of doing everything the same until the white man came along.
It would be nice if they respected it whilst doing so, but that's not always possible.

[miloking]

Where did I say I advocated tougher penalties for fleeing drivers? But I will say that if you are breaking the law while in your vehicle you should expect to get pulled over, and if you choose not to then you are the one endangering the public. Simple.

no you didnt say that, i re-read the whole thread properly and it was someone else...so my bad for quoting your post.

anyway, tougher penaties are not a solution...

And i understand the "if you break the law, expect to be pulled over" and "if you run its YOU who endangers public" ...but the problem is it doesnt matter if the responsibility is yours or popos..

Innocent people died that had nothing to do with chase and they shouldnt have been put in that position by neither "runner" or popo....(not in this case i know but lots of passengers and people in other cars were killed before)

And since popo actualy has some responsibility towards protecting public they need to be the ones to stop the chase...if its too dangerous, and their training should tell them exactly at what point that is...

[miloking]

And what harsh punishment would this be?

$10000 and 3 months in jail... i believe? is that correct...

[Genestho]

NEITHER...

POPO is just following directions of scaly gentlewoman (thanks Ixion )

PERPETRATOR is just retarded and doesnt want to lose his car/bike/licence/job/money/freedom (so its almost understandable why he runs..so much at stake for price of so little)

WHO is at fault are people (politicians) that created pursuit policies, harsh punishments for traffic offences, harsh punishment for running (irony, i know but lots of people will impulsively start to run and then its hard to stop knowing you are going to jail anyway)...so all this made running worth while.

Bullshit, it begins and ends with 'you' if you don't respect the laws, when you screw up - man up - don't make excuses, and don't make it everybody elses problem.

More serious offenders are risking and taking lives - without pursuits, a cop could've stopped the drunk that killed my man, I'd have also had two friends alive as well.

Seven deaths out of how many succesfull pursuits? Anybody got that number?

And no - I'm not advocating harsher penalties here - just to make that clear.

[onearmedbandit]

True. Apportiating blame doesn't fix the problem. Remote cut-off devices, that fixes the problem. (Before you think I'm advocating those, I'm definitely not. But they would be the only way to eliminate runners. And even then the guy could get out of the car and run into a river holding a 5yr old hostage and kill them both.

[bogan]

no you didnt say that, i re-read the whole thread properly and it was someone else...so my bad for quoting your post.

anyway, tougher penaties are not a solution...

And i understand the "if you break the law, expect to be pulled over" and "if you run its YOU who endangers public" ...but the problem it doesnt matter if the responsibility is you or the popo..

Innocent people died that had nothing to do with chase and they shouldnt have been put in that position by neither "runner" or popo....

And since popo actualy has some responsibility towards protecting public the need to be the ones to stop the chase...if its too dangerous, and their training should tell them exactly at what point that is...

you haven't thought it through, if the cops don't try to catch you when you run, why wouldn't you run? in fact, if you take off or replace the plate why would you bother with the laws at all?

How bout creative penalties, 3 strikes law, but instead of crushing your car you are sterilised and car sold or crushed too for good measure, selective breed the scum out of society (a stike accumulates from any criminal conviction btw). Or another outside the box solution, if you run, the cops choose the place and take you out, less innocent bystanders hurt that way.

[miloking]

Bullshit, it begins and ends with 'you' if you don't respect the laws, when you screw up - man up - don't make excuses, and don't make it everybody elses problem.

More serious offenders are risking and taking lives - without pursuits, a cop could've stopped the drunk that killed my man, I'd have also had two friends alive as well.

Seven deaths out of how many succesfull pursuits? Anybody got that number?

And no - I'm not advocating harsher penalties here - just to make that clear.

YEAH i agree..it begins and ends with "me" the runner...but innocent people can still get hurt regardless of who is at fault! So are you happy to sacrifice those lives to get the the "speeder" or drunk or even the rapist behind bars?

[CookMySock]

Youngsters should challenge authority. That is a part of an evolving society. If youngsters don't challenge we wind up with a society like the aborigines in Ausie - 200,000 yrs of doing everything the same until the white man came along. It would be nice if they respected it whilst doing so, but that's not always possible.

Fully agree here. I think it's important to not overtly hold youngsters to authority - it just makes them angrily back up against the wall and stand up to you no matter what happens - that's not a good thing.

I admit it's hard showing "authority" to kids and not being rough about it, but there has to be a way, unless we'll create a society full of hard-nosed assholes who respect no one, least of all themselves. How will the law handle those people?

Steve

[OnCam]

i didnt read from the beginning, but i think its both police and speeding drivers fault.. the speeder is putting his and public lives at risk, breaking the speed limit.. yet the police are encouraging the situation (or "trying to stop it") by now becoming involved you have 2 high speeding cars, flashing lights or not the physics of driving doesnt change nor does human error, now we almost all know that death or a huge accident is the outcome of some pursuits, see it all the time.. but yes there is the chance to evade an yes occasionally ive heard of the people being caught, some have even been let off with a warning with from the horses mouth "i thought you were a drug dealer hence the speed" (black zx6r clocked at 135kph) NO SHIT! an was let off with a slap on the wrist after he tried to gap it down a no exit road an lost them for 15mins hiding out.. so some cops are chasing even just to give a warning WTF.. i know of another one like this also

there needs to be another way, i think they are doing a good thing by reducing the costs of fines an increasing the demerits though, but chasing and pursuing is another level of experience way out of the general police experience, so many variable factors that come into driving a car at full pace.. these police (humans) not bloody greg murphy +9999 do not practise racing on a track, from what i know some cone work is done in training an some basic pursuit manouvers but doesnt involve streets with real people cars traffic intersections etc

correct me if you know a cop who can actually drive the balls off those commodors SAFELY around a real environment, i dont mean in top speed/in a straight line

[imdying]

What they don't get, is how they are at risk. All kids think they are invulnerable - it's just how they are wired.

Nah mate, you're right about kids being kids, but kids being kids means they'll just drive without a license, they already do!