Shell Helix Ultra

[Pixie]

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

[Pixie]

I use Diesel oil in my bike.... But that doesn't have the friction modifiers that some car oils have. These additives can cause clutch slippage in wet clutches.

see the above-diesel oils are better quality

[Pixie]

You CAN use certain car oils as Motu says, you just have to have the nous to identify which car oil is OK and which is not


My 2 cents

The site I posted above explains the CI and SAE rating codes

[Pixie]

The gears ''chopping up'' the oil strands always gets dragged out - but the BMC Mini came out in 1959,when 99% of bikes used a separate oil in the gearbox,and they were in production for 40 yrs,no oil related problems,and the oils in 1959 were crap compared with todays oils....and now we have short chain synthetics,that's the whole point of synthetics,greater shear strength....so what's wrong with them in your bike? Clutch slip from synthetics? - I'd say the clutch was stuffed...but it's easier to blame the oil eh?

The article I read explains it as the VI improvers get degraded.
The Viscosity Index improvers is what makes an oil multigrade eg.20w40
The base oil has a viscosity of 20w and the VI improvers do their magic as the oil heats up and it becomes 40w.When the VI improvers get buggered you're left with dirty 20w.This is why the viscosity drops.
A straight 50w oil does not lose it's viscosity by much as it ages,but it does not lube well at start up.
Diesel oils have more expensive VI additives that survive longer

[Motu]

And that's one of the reasons you want as narrow a spread on a multigrade as possible,even though they are synthetic those 5-50 synthetics span too much,you want 10-30 or 10-40.

[Brian d marge]

If you bear with me for a while I will find my info ,,,, I am sure the oil ones give better filtration at the expense of airflow ....which in a million mile motor
when I find the stuff I am looking for I will post it ,, sorry it was a while since I did anything with airfilters

Stephen

I know where the link is ...just cant access it ..we were talking about this very same issue of airfilters and oil longevity ...on another group i belong to anyway someone posted a link .. from one of the oil companys or something like that ..anyway ..its in Yahoo groups ...so when you try to do a seach all it does is a basic search ,,,and other than trall through every post ,,,which I will do .....as I will keep it ...( if anything out of this thread it got me off my arse to organise my computer and save info ...instead of relying on my memory ........which is ssorry what was i saying?? oh yet tea time ,,,nurse will be here soon !)

Some in the intrest of unsupported evidence ,,the court finds Napa paper the best all round element !

thanks ,,,for at least getting me to do something about my computer !!!

Stephen

[Silage]

OK we are now clear that there are good and cheap alternatives to buying motorcycle oil so long as it doesn't have friction modifiers.

Can someone name one synthetic, one semi-synth and one mineral (diesel) oil of say 10w40 or 15w40 viscosity that is available in NZ and that meets the above criteria. Yes I am too lazy to get off my chuff and look myself, but I am also quite nervous about this and would take some notice from those who have actually used non-motorcycle oils rather than just pulling a bottle off the shelf and missing the "contains friction modifyers" small print.

[Motu]

Try Fuchs,they are a European company and don't make oil for the American market,so are unlikely to use friction modifiers.Silkolene is one of their companies,who make motorcycle oils - Pro 4 is the full ester synthetic,and they do a semi synth too.Titan is their range of automotive oils,and I use a PAO synthetic in my diesels that is able to be used with oil change intervals of up to 80,000km.Serious stuff.

[T.W.R]

okay, I was in Kmart and 'browsing' the oil section and picked up some Shell Helix Ultra , Is this okay for my bike ??? (wet clutch), I should have got a bike specific oil but will it really matter (clutch slip,Gear Engegement)??????

Cheers

car oil is car oil , bike oil is bike oil. different characteristics; motorcycle oil has anti foaming agents car oil hasn't.
if your up for the shell flavour go for ASX ( semi synthetic) or VSX ( full synthetic)
if your wanting to put additives to maintain viscosity SLICK50 is about the most reliable

[Motu]

if your wanting to put additives to maintain viscosity SLICK50 is about the most reliable

Lucky I didn't have a drink in my hand when I read that,I woulda spilt it on my nighty.Slick 50 in a bike -

[The Stranger:Me]

Have seen a comparison by independent testers. Honda paper elements came out on top as far as filtration goes. Believe it or not.............................This link relates to cars but tells the same story- http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm
Sure K&N have better flow but I know what I'd rather have on a dusty, gravelly back country road.

Edit-Clarified a few things

I use K&N in the bike. Both power and fuel economy have increased using the K&N. The fuel economy has increased significantly and the old paper cartridge filter had only done 2500km and looked quite clean

Yesterday myself and my son drove down to Lower Hutt and picked up a car he purchased on Trademe. Performance was well down on what I had expected from this new purchase. We stopped at Waiouru and I had a look around for what could be causing this. On inspecting the airfilter we found that the standard filter had been replaced with a K&N cartridge.
It was absolutely choked with dust, much of it was filled to top of the fins with crap. The airbox on the dirty side had a lot of dust and debris in it.
On the clean side the airbox was clean, and on the clean side of the filter no dirt was apparent at all. So even though there was a massive restriction and surely a large negative pressure on the clean side there was no dirt dust or debris evident on the clean side.

So ok, this experience is not a definitive test, however, how much filtration is necessary?
As a kid I used to run motors a lot without airfilters and have seen no detrimental effects. Not saying there are none but just because a filter takes out more crap does it make it inherently better for the engine or prolong engine life more?

[The Stranger:Me]

if your wanting to put additives to maintain viscosity SLICK50 is about the most reliable

WTF. Surely you jest?

[Ixion]

I use K&N in the bike. Both power and fuel economy have increased using the K&N. The fuel economy has increased significantly and the old paper cartridge filter had only done 2500km and looked quite clean

..
As a kid I used to run motors a lot without airfilters and have seen no detrimental effects. Not saying there are none but just because a filter takes out more crap does it make it inherently better for the engine or prolong engine life more?

It makes a difference if it is carbs or FI. FI systems that use air flow meters to measure air flow are often sensitive to filter changes - both in terms of the air flow itself, and in terms of a filter allowing more small particles through, which build up on the hot wire of hot wire AFMs and stuff them up. I learned this from the Alfa forums, cos it is a notorious gotcha on Alfas. Put pod filters on and 1000k later your AFM goes poof.

[The Stranger:Me]

I learned this from the Alfa forums, cos it is a notorious gotcha on Alfas. Put pod filters on and 1000k later your AFM goes poof.

That proves nothing
All alfas go poof about every 1000km anyway.

[The Stranger:Me]

Have seen a comparison by independent testers. Honda paper elements came out on top as far as filtration goes. Believe it or not.............................This link relates to cars but tells the same story- http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm
Sure K&N have better flow but I know what I'd rather have on a dusty, gravelly back country road.

Edit-Clarified a few things

You are not seriously claiming that this test has any validity what so ever are you.

I saw this a lot when reviewing mecidal studies. So many of them have glaring flaws and yet they still get published.

Whilst he does say that this is low bubget and he has tried to control what he can and not worry about what he can't, it is still no excuse to publish crap.

And a quick tip. Don't believe everything you read on the Internet. Anyone can publish anything they want on the Internet, doesn't make it right.

The problem with this "test" is this statement

Each test filter was used in the same car, on the same roads for 500 miles

He also says there is a lot of dust where he lives and offers to send photos of his wheels to prove it. Most of the dust on my wheels is brake dust, however, moving right along.

There really is no control for either atmospheric conditions or volume of air passed by each filter. His guess that it was an ideal time when testing the K&N is just that and could be way out. The amount and size of particles in the atmosphere could be affected by a bloody volcano half a world away. Also we have no way of knowing that engine speeds and air volumes were consistent for each test.

He may be correct in that the K&N may have the worst filtration, however his test in no way proves that or anything like it.
All it proves is that he has not actually conducted a test of the filtration capabilities of air filters.