Newbie Advice

[The Stranger:Me]

Get your arse to a BRONZ Ride Right Ride Safe riding course as soon as possible, like the this Sunday the 19th.

[Str8 Jacket]

But as a knee jerk reaction to any given situation or a first line of defence forget it.

For sure. When Im riding around town and see a cager that may pull out in front of me, at an intersection or car park or u-turns (the list goes on) I instinctively (sp?) rest my hand over the brake lever just so im ready to stop if I have to. The horn is more of an OI! but never a preventative measure for avoiding an accident. I always ride like someones out to get me, that way im aware of almost everything thats going on around me.

[Ixion]

Cage is equally as likely to hit the brakes without horn, when he belatedly does see you. You can't assume he'll keep moving just because you don't tootle him. In fact, your argument supports tootling him, because if it reliably makes him stop, that makes him more predictable. And of course , you are not *only* tootling - you are doing all else that is necessary.

And if you can avoid him without drama then you don't need horn or finger - just drive around him (front or back), or change lanes, or duck into that driveway - the small change of riding that we deal with every day.

The horn is also useful to confirm your presence. The cage has stopped at the give way. You are still a fair distance off, but travelling fast. He sees you , hesitates, you know exactly what is going through his mind - "Have I time to get out before that motorcycle". A good loud tootle will confirm his thinking "No - shit he's in a hurry - have to wait" . A horn blast will make people think you are moving faster - which is a good thing.

[The Stranger:Me]

Another example of the effectiveness of a horn.

We are travelling up a twisty hill whilst doing the coro loop on Saturday.
There is a truck in front with roofing material on it, CaN2, then myself then bugjuice.

Me spies a lump of 4x4 dunnage slipping out of the strap on the truck and it is going to fall off right in CaN2's path of travel.

I sat on the horn and gradually slowed down. I had the horn on for about 10 seconds before the dunnage fell. Fortunately as it did so it fell to the road in about the left wheel track and she was in the right wheel track. Quite lucky really as it was on the RHS of the truck.

She hadn't seen the timber, was watching for an over take op. She looked back to see why I was in strife and making such a racket. Reality is she may have been looking forward and seen it if I wasn't tooting.

[Ixion]

And conversly - last week, going along, minding my own business, and woz all this - lottsa bits of wood (firewoody sorta wood) all ova road. Whaa. Carry on , avoiding wood ,round corner in front is car pulling trailer , loaded with , yep , firewood.And there's another bit falling off. Overtake car, tootle melodiously, cager jerks into consciousness, I point back to his trailer and down to the road, he pulls over and in the mirror I see him redistributing stuff. Without horn, he'd never have noticed me, or my signal.

(EDIT: Never much point tootling from behind though, they can't hear you)

[The Stranger:Me]

In fact, your argument supports tootling him, because if it reliably makes him stop, that makes him more predictable.

So you are saying that reliably making him stop smack in front of you is preferable to maybe he/she stops in front of you?

How the hell do you figure that?

Presumably this is because you are better prepared for your death?

You would rather the accident was a sure thing, than a maybe, different stroke I guess.

[pritch]

Ok, so a horn might not be the first thing I would mention but it seems to be the topic du jour . I did think it important enough to throw the OE item away and fit a pair of FIAMMs early in the piece. These guys were good to deal with:

http://ridesafer.com/store/category/5wlf/Horns.html

The FIAMM Dual HF 90 horns are much louder than the stock but still sound like a motor bike, I'd really prefer to make a noise like a big rig.

Air horns, however, can take a lot of space although the Stebel Nautilus is apparently authoritatively loud and is at the same time compact. US riders are reporting good results and if I was replacing a horn today I'd have a look at these.

http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/2137/

[The Stranger:Me]

So let me get this straight.

The thead is entitled "Newbie Advice" and I am arguing about the ONE piece of advice you would give a new rider according to the first post.

I am not saying the horn should never be used. I am saying that it is not the most important thing. I am saying that it can produce unpredictable results.

My concern is that there is some dopy newbie out there reads some of the shit they see on KB and actually believes it.
I doubt there are many newbies that are sufficiently dopey as to think the horn is their saviour, even if that position is being extolled by some seemingly experienced riders.

[In The Breeze]

Best advice I can give a newbie is this: Rely on nothing but your wits

[Ixion]

So you are saying that reliably making him stop smack in front of you is preferable to maybe he/she stops in front of you?

How the hell do you figure that?

Presumably this is because you are better prepared for your death?

You would rather the accident was a sure thing, than a maybe, different stroke I guess.

Actually, on reflection, your arguement is proceeding from a wrong premise. Why on earth would you be tootling him AFTER he is front of you? Time is long gone for that, you need to tootle him BEFORE then, while he is still back wherever he came from. Horn is a WARNING signal, means "Hey, don't do what you are thinking of, I'm here"

And yes, I'd rather he reliably stopped where-ever, than unpredictably moved one way or other. Stopped, he's just a static obstacle. No different to a tree or rock. Off roaders navigate round those all the time - they'd have a much harder time if the rocks and trees were moving randomly about (might be fun though )

Why do you assume that having the cage reliably stop in front of you means certain accident/death ? He has stopped. So you have more choices. You can go behind him. You can go in front of him (cos he's stopped). You can stop (cos you *did * slow down, way back when you first noticed him, right? Prepared for the eventuality that he'd pop out in front of you. Or you can remove yourself to one of the safe palces you mapped out when you first noticed him.

Only reason you'd be hitting him is if you never saw him in the first place (either because you weren't watching or because he wasn't able to be seen- happens). And if you never saw him, you wouldn't tootle him either , right.

So tootling is a WARNING. To use to PREVENT people coming out in front of you. If they still do, you (riding defensively) slow down or stop , or do whatever else works.

Works for me, for 40 odd years.


FWIW, I wouldn't say that the horn is the NUMBER ONE thing for a newbie to know about. But I don't think that's what Mr Skyryder said. He said he'd give ONE tip - not necessarily the most important.

[DMNTD:Me]

Best advice I can give a newbie is this: Rely on nothing but your wits

Green bling awarded

[pritch]

they'd have a much harder time if the rocks and trees were moving randomly about (might be fun though )

Be more fun as a spectator :-)

[Zed]

Been meaning to post this for some time but the slagging I copped on another thread has prompted this now rather than later.

Firstly, you deserved every bit of slagging you received on that other thread! A fellow rider had an accident and you were totally unsympathetic and proceeded to make him feel terrible by telling him what he did was wrong!!

Ok so you have one piece of advice to give to a new rider. Just one, not several.

What would that be.

Easy, that would be to be very careful who's advice you take when it comes to motorcycling, because there are a lot of know-it-alls out there offering BAD advice!

[buellbabe]

My advice is to assume that everyone else on the road is an idiot and that they WILL do stoopid things when least expected... so... expect it!
RE: the Horn isssue? Well of course I know where my horn button is! And its blimmin loud! I travel the Southern Motorway everyday and use it as a "don't do it bucko" warning to those drivers that seem to be in a little world of their own!And a blast from my horn doesn't make the driver swerve erractically but it does make them aware that maybe they should be using their mirrors AND... heaven forbid.. perhaps check over their shoulder...

[The Stranger:Me]

Actually, on reflection, your arguement is proceeding from a wrong premise. Why on earth would you be tootling him AFTER he is front of you? Time is long gone for that, you need to tootle him BEFORE then, while he is still back wherever he came from. Horn is a WARNING signal, means "Hey, don't do what you are thinking of, I'm here"
.

Personally I wait for someone to do something wrong before actually taking evasive action. So using the scenario of car about to pull out, as I am approaching I check that the driver is looking and try to make eye contact, I check the cars wheel to see if it moving or starts moving, which way is it pointed, if the car starts to move, what are the options. If anything looks amiss I will reduce speed and or cover the brake, thus reducing reaction time, and yes I may even cover the horn.

No wonder there are so many fucked up cagers around with you riding around tooting at them just in case they do something wrong. Interesting approach though, I supose it cuts down on his/her average 2 second reaction time, more than enough to get smak in fron of you from a standing start.

FWIW, I wouldn't say that the horn is the NUMBER ONE thing for a newbie to know about.

Well we are making progress aren't we? Cause shit that is what I have been saying too.