Auckland Road Tax - Lets Do Something About It!

[Hitcher]

You mean take a 50% pay cut, live in a grass hut and shag our sisters. Like the rest of Appalachian NZ.
We pay good money for the right to whinge.

Be careful what you say, or I may be forced to gouge out your eyes with my sixth finger...

And you haven't, as yet, paid any more than the rest of New Zealand. So at the moment our rights to whinge are equal.

[RantyDave]

It'll stuff Aucklands economy

You should ask some Londoners about whether or not it's a good idea.

Public transport is not up to the required standard to facilitate this

Well, yes, London does have appreciably better public transport and they put a ton of money into buses when the congestion charge thing hit.

Aucklanders will start moving to Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin etc

Yeah, well this is probably actually part of the idea. Look, I do feel your pain and certainly I can't see a congestion charge working without some other way of moving people from A to B - be that a bus service that actually works; trains; or just letting people blat about on their bikes ... I mean commute to work in an orderly fashion. But given the success the congestion charge has had in completely revolutionising what it's like to live in London, I think you're looking at a real uphill struggle to get it stopped completely.

So, y'know, pick your battles. Free bike parking for instance

Dave

[Hitcher]

Uh, no you don't. Or, at any rate, Auckland contributes more to yours than you contribute to Auckland's.

Don't play per capita games with me, sunshine. That argument would only be true if the tax was allocated on the same basis. It isn't. There is currently a specific loading for Auckland's congestion problems that while gathered from all motor spirits purchasers in New Zealand, only gets spent in Auckland.

[clint640]

I have no problem with bikes being taxes on a pro rata basis with cars.

I.e. if the average car has one person in it, and the average bike has 1 person on it - any costs accrued by that person being in town will be the same - charge the same.

MDU

But it's a CONGESTION charge. Bikes don't cause traffic congestion & therefore should be free or cheaper. Applying a congestion charge to motorbikes is like applying a fucking tax to virgins.

Cheers
Clint

[The Stranger:Me]

Don't play per capita games with me, sunshine. That argument would only be true if the tax was allocated on the same basis. It isn't. There is currently a specific loading for Auckland's congestion problems that while gathered from all motor spirits purchasers in New Zealand, only gets spent in Auckland.

Yeah for come on Ixion, don't let the facts cloud things here.

[Ixion]

Don't play per capita games with me, sunshine. That argument would only be true if the tax was allocated on the same basis. It isn't. There is currently a specific loading for Auckland's congestion problems that while gathered from all motor spirits purchasers in New Zealand, only gets spent in Auckland.

But the OVERALL take from motorists is still negative to Auckland. Nothing to do with per capita . Just the dollars in, versus dollars back. Per capita only affects it in that the REASON Auckland contributes so much is it has so many people (and so many cars, trucks, bikes). More people, more vehicles, more dollars contributed.

So the take from the non-specific-loading taxes is heavily subsidised by Auckland - ie Auckland puts more into the general pool than it gets back. The specific loading for Auckland helps redress that imbalance somewhat, but not completely. So overall, Auckland still pays more than it gets.

Think about it, all those roads in the South Island with one farm every 50km. The tax take from the locals sure isn't paying for them to be maintained let alone built. Arguably some extra is contributed by tourists but still nowhere nearly enough to cover the costs of the South island network (and maintainance costs there are higher because of snow and ice damage).

The shortfall has to be made up somewhere, and Auckland is where it comes from.

Instead of the specific loading it would have been simpler just to reallocate the overall take. But the politiucans didn't want that one, because it would make the percentage for their own area reduce. Parish pump politics.

[popelli]

"Stop moaning, pay the fucking tax or go and live somewhere else."

given that most of the tax in nz is paid by people / business's in /around Auckland Auckland like it or not is subsidising the rest of the country

the best way to fix this stupid tax is

DON'T £$%ING PAY IT

television licence got dropped because nobody paid it

poll tax in england was dropped because nobody paid it

if everybody is so soft and stupid to comply and pay it then it will go ahead, the only way to stop it is to refuse to pay it

[gixermike]

The congestion charge in london does has some benefit, but is not the panacea that some of you seem to think. It just pushes the majority of the traffic outside of the congestion charge zone, so the suburban streets are more heavily trafficked than ever.
The centre is nice for politicians / toursits and whoever is actually there daytime, but the ring outside is worse as people skirt the charge zone...and the price is gonna change from £5 to £8 soon (12 to 20Nz$). There is now a second rush hour after 630pm when the charge ends, a everyone dashes through the centre...which is still quicker than queing around the outside.

The smaller businesses inside the zone have real problems as the costs for delivery are sooooo high now, and customers just don't go there. People who live there also get screwed...paying the charge for basically any journey they do.
just glad I work in a scummy bit of london away from the charge and live out in the countryside.

mike

[Flatcap]

The congestion charge in london does has some benefit, but is not the panacea that some of you seem to think. It just pushes the majority of the traffic outside of the congestion charge zone, so the suburban streets are more heavily trafficked than ever.
The centre is nice for politicians / toursits and whoever is actually there daytime, but the ring outside is worse as people skirt the charge zone...and the price is gonna change from £5 to £8 soon (12 to 20Nz$). There is now a second rush hour after 630pm when the charge ends, a everyone dashes through the centre...which is still quicker than queing around the outside.

The smaller businesses inside the zone have real problems as the costs for delivery are sooooo high now, and customers just don't go there. People who live there also get screwed...paying the charge for basically any journey they do.
just glad I work in a scummy bit of london away from the charge and live out in the countryside.

mike

This is what will happen here - good input Mike

I can see myself being forced to pay to move about my own suburb in the near future

[popelli]

The congestion charge in london does has some benefit, but is not the panacea that some of you seem to think. It just pushes the majority of the traffic outside of the congestion charge zone, so the suburban streets are more heavily trafficked than ever.
The centre is nice for politicians / toursits and whoever is actually there daytime, but the ring outside is worse as people skirt the charge zone...and the price is gonna change from £5 to £8 soon (12 to 20Nz$). There is now a second rush hour after 630pm when the charge ends, a everyone dashes through the centre...which is still quicker than queing around the outside.

The smaller businesses inside the zone have real problems as the costs for delivery are sooooo high now, and customers just don't go there. People who live there also get screwed...paying the charge for basically any journey they do.
just glad I work in a scummy bit of london away from the charge and live out in the countryside.

mike

despite all this it raises so much revenue that all cities in England now want to introduce this tax

also this is a very regressive tax, it hits all people regardless of social position and ability to pay except for the self employed who can charge it against their business and claim tax relief

may be a better solution would be to change town planning and locate some factories and business's on the north shore

[Bonez]

[*]Aucklanders will start moving to Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin etc ( PAY ATTENTION NON-AUCKLANDERS!)

Old news. It's happening already...................

[MisterD]

may be a better solution would be to change town planning and locate some factories and business's on the north shore

Have you ever been to Albany? It's just a big business park....the sooner SH20 is finished and people heading North can bypass the city, the better.

[Dai]

A number of years ago in the UK they tried implimenting toll on motorbikes at such places as the Dartford Tunnel and the Severn Bridge.

The motorcyclists all arranged to meet at these places in full wet weather gear.

No one carried the right change and everyone queued.

Imagine the scene.

The bike puls up, the rider dismounts the bike, puts it on side stand, takes off their gloves and helmet. Then they undo their coat to reach into their pocket to get the ten pound note to pay the toll. The rider then reverses the process after getting his/her change.

The next bike pulls up and repeats the process.

What happened at those two places mentioned? Thousands of bikes showed up on a wet day. Traffic backed up for miles. They all queued at every pay booth.

The next day there were no more toll charges for motorcycles.

Dai

[Wenier]

A number of years ago in the UK they tried implimenting toll on motorbikes at such places as the Dartford Tunnel and the Severn Bridge.

.....

The next day there were no more toll charges for motorcycles.

Dai

Now that is funny, good way to change a rule.

But think about it, the only reason they want this toll is to get the road built faster. The rest of the country is still paying tax on their fuel and some of it is contributing to your road but they cannot put a huge tax on to cover the whole cost.

Therefore they have come up with the toll idea, I wouldnt have a problem with it even if i lived in Auckland as long as the toll is removed once the road is built. They could do it for the Transmission gully road to cause that keeps getting put off.

[Hitcher]

Have you ever been to Albany? It's just a big business park...

And the rest of Auckland isn't a big business park?