Why the 'U' turn?

[jrandom]

The riding along, and indicating right before smoothly doing a u turn, all in the same movement, without going to almost a complete stop on the left...

The road code, if I recall correctly, stipulates coming to a stop and indicating for three seconds before initiating a U-turn.

So that's how I'd play it on a bike during a test.

[Ixion]

For example?

(Not being a smart arse, just want to find out everything I can). Generally I consider myself a safe (nana like) rider, and so I don't want to fail because of some lack of skills that I don't even know about.

I've done a practical full car test in the last five years, so know all about spotting hazards and doing head turns etc.

Well, a U turn (a moving one) calls for quite a few capabilities to be shown pretty much simultaneously. To get it right you need to have road positioning; situational awareness; hazard identification; road code knowledge; balance skills sorted; clutch and machine controls well developed; turning and countersteering on the ball. And a few others. As well as handling things like indicating, shoulder check , etc. And you have to do all of those within a few seconds.

So, odds are, unless at least most of them are so well practised that they are completely automatic, something will be fluffed.

It's quite easy to demonstrate that you can handle clutch control when that is ALL you have to concentrate on. But add all those other things and it needs to be so well practised that you don't need to think about it.

I think any newbie, after a few hours on a bike, can usually manage to start off and ride away in a staright line. But get them to try a U turn and they'll be so busy trying not to stall , fall off or put a foot down, that they'll completely forget about signalling., Or something.

So I think it tells the tester that those vital skjills are not merely things you know how to do, but are so ingrained that in a genuine emergency you won't need to have to THINK about them.

[vifferman]

Throttle control, confidence, balance, avoidance of target fixation, looking through your turn instead of wherever the bike is pointing, and situational awareness. All rolled up in a nice little 20kph bundle.

Yes indeed. Although for "throttle control", I'd subsitute "throttle / clutch / rear brake control", at least on your average sprotsbike, where a run-of-the-mill u-turn involves balancing the right amount of propulsion against the appropriate speed, while looking over your right shoulder. And "balance" may at times (for a really tight u-turn) require you to resort to applying lots of 'body english', while pushing the bike down into the turn. All this, as you said, while being aware of what's going on around you, not slipping over on the patch of diesel, and coping with overheating in your riding suit because the examiner has spent too long faffing about before you left.

[Ixion]

...

ahh I am probably just bitter because the test I had to do was way harder than the NZ one - after riding a 400 through rush-hour traffic for about two hours a day for two years, I still had to sit the test 6 times before I passed:

,,,
Oh yeah, you also have to memorise the test course too.

Bloody hell. I'd have no chance, I'd take a wrong turn for sure.

S'interesting. My test , many many years ago, was quite short and simple. Just ride up a hill , round a car park, up another hill. And a U turn and a couple of emergency stops. But I reckon maybe most people nowdays would fail.

When I arrived the snake said "Oh , yeah, I've seen you riding around". oh shit. Is that good or bad? But i reckon it must have been good, cos some candidates, he'd make them ride around the neighbourhood while he followed on the snakemocycle. But he didn't do that with me.

Just said, "Ride up that hill over there (the snake centre was next to a sports field). Then ride round the car park at the top. I'll be standing on the path half way up watching you. Then come back down the hill, and when I raise my hand you do a fast stop.If you do that OK I'll tell you what to do next"

Uh, OK. Sounds easy eh? Yeah except that the hill and the carpark were all gravel. Rough , rutted gravel, cut up by the wheels of Ford Zephyrs and Vauxhall Veloxes. Ever done an emergency stop downhill on gravel ?

Anyway, that done to satisfaction, next bit. "Ride along the road, through the intersection and up the (steep but sealed) hill on the other side. I'll be standing on the roadside. Stop beside me , and restart on the hill.Carry on up the hill and half way up , do a U turn, no stopping, feet up , and return.
As you go past me , another emergency stop". He watched the valve on the wheel for the hill start. Slightest backward movement, fail.

Now the U turn was a bit tricky. Cos it was a U turn, half way up a steep hill. And you had to give hand signals !. Ever tried hand signals (no indicators on bikes back then )? Left hand, stop signal, grab clutch to change down, signal, grab clutch, signal.Right hand, signal right turn, grab throttle (half way up a hill, remember!), Signal. Grab throttle, Rinse lather repeat. At the same time as all the other stuff.

Reckon many learners would pass nowdays (especially the gravel bit) ?

[Ocean1]

Ever tried hand signals (no indicators on bikes back then )? Left hand, stop signal, grab clutch to change down, signal, grab clutch, signal.Right hand, signal right turn, grab throttle (half way up a hill, remember!), Signal. Grab throttle, Rinse lather repeat. At the same time as all the other stuff.

Reckon many learners would pass nowdays (especially the gravel bit) ?

Had forgotten all about the hand signal thing at test-time.

My test was even briefer, but it also included a U-turn on a hill. Managed it OK on a BSA Bushman but I'm not sure I could, now, on the Buell.

[The Stranger:Me]

For example?

(Not being a smart arse, just want to find out everything I can). Generally I consider myself a safe (nana like) rider, and so I don't want to fail because of some lack of skills that I don't even know about.

I've done a practical full car test in the last five years, so know all about spotting hazards and doing head turns etc.

Throttle control and Looking where you want to be.
Both equally important for good riding at both high and low speeds.
There are other things that can be tried and applied at low speeds which are effective also at high speeds - such as weighting pegs.

[sunhuntin]

Throttle control and Looking where you want to be.
Both equally important for good riding at both high and low speeds.
There are other things that can be tried and applied at low speeds which are effective also at high speeds - such as weighting pegs.

i thought the weights were so you didnt scuff and wear the actual pegs down when cornering [as per smokys thread... ]

i like the idea of taking part in slow races at rallies, where the idea is to cross the line last, without taking your feet off the pegs. i have seen one race which involved guys on harleys. one dropped, and the rider ended up with a shattered ankle.
to "train" for something like that, i often make a run down main street or across a 2 lane bridge when its dead locked, going as long as i can motionless, allowing only throttle and brake tapping to hold my position. i also do it when pulling into the lean too... throttle and brake only, slow as possible. [and its around a tight narrow "s" between the house and garage, so quite tricky]
good fun, and all skills that can be applied to every day riding.

[Ocean1]

i like the idea of taking part in slow races at rallies, where the idea is to cross the line last, without taking your feet off the pegs.

Yup. This guy's almost got it sussed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwEeIOA1-Ck&NR=1

Bit more practice and he might pass...

[MSTRS:Me]

i thought the weights were so you didnt scuff and wear the actual pegs down when cornering [as per smokys thread... ]

Nah. Those weights are to reduce peg vibration. There is a screw in 'hero knob' to take care of the pegdown scuffing.
The weighting of pegs referred to in this thread is your own weight distribution on the bike when doing tight turns.

[Lucy]

Thanks everybody. That all makes sense. I generally feel pretty confident on the GN, but walking speed is not my strong point, so I'd better make sure I do my u turns at speed. Perhaps I'll drop the clutch and skid it around as someone suggested....

I can't wait to get the test over and done with, then at least I'll know for sure if I have any gaps in my skills. Can always do another test if I fail, after having improved my riding of course. But I hope I pass.

Thanks for the explanations.

[Skyryder]

A smooth quick U-turn is the sign of someone who's comfortable with their bike. If you can pull one off with aplomb, you can probably go around high speed corners quite well, too.

I think that's what Der Stranger was getting at.

"Bout where I am coming from too. When a U turn is completed with a little throttle about three quarters into the turn, (the extra power allows the bike to be leaned over with a tighter line ) it looks stunning. It's one of the most difficult manourvres on a bike. No too many can do it.


Skyryder

[sunhuntin]

Thanks everybody. That all makes sense. I generally feel pretty confident on the GN, but walking speed is not my strong point, so I'd better make sure I do my u turns at speed. Perhaps I'll drop the clutch and skid it around as someone suggested....

I can't wait to get the test over and done with, then at least I'll know for sure if I have any gaps in my skills. Can always do another test if I fail, after having improved my riding of course. But I hope I pass.

Thanks for the explanations.

lucy... you need to practise at slow speed as well... the slower the speed, the harder the bike is to control, and youll never know where it may come in handy. the gn being so light is ideal to do this on. thats why i make a point of doing slow speed stuff as much as possible on all my bikes. my current problem spot is the 500, but thats cos im not used to it yet, plus shes harder to control at slow speed due to the height.

[ambler]

When a U turn is completed with a little throttle about three quarters into the turn, (the extra power allows the bike to be leaned over with a tighter line ) it looks stunning. It's one of the most difficult manourvres on a bike. No too many can do it.

I use a lot of throttle all the way thru the turn and control it with the clutch, which is a hell of a lot easier than trying to control speed with the throttle, and guarantees no stalling. On the downside the loud revving can make you look like a newb (until you get to that 3/4 point and zoom off).
"Not too many can do it" depends where you live I guess... I would say 80% of riders here can do it without any trouble, thanks to that strict-ass test.

[Lucy]

Well, I did the test, and passed- yippee. Had to do one u turn, but it was in a much wider street than I was used to so didn't have to think much about it at all in the end.

More of a concern was when checking over my bike before leaving home, I discovered that my 5 day old WOF had escaped from it's plastic cover, and with the issuing garage 30k in the wrong direction from the testing location (which was another 80k) instead of a relaxing ride to the test, getting in the groove, I was rushing and thinking 'I hope I can find somewhere to give me a new WOF label before the test'. In the end I did, and had plenty of time, but it wasn't exactly a relaxing morning. Plus I kept taking off with the side stand down, a habit I had managed to break, but which came rushing back with nerves.

Frankly I would have failed me for it, but he didn't seem to think it was a dangerous mistake and passed me.

Before we did the highway riding part he asked me to 'try and get to 100' (cheeky eh, must know the GN) he also said that I wouldn't get a ticket for going 100k on the test, and said 'in fact you can't get a ticket for anything while you are doing the test' so I said "Oh great, can we go and have some beer?" He laughed, but said 'no'.

Thanks for all the advice. I like KB!

Cheers!

[vifferman]

Had forgotten all about the hand signal thing at test-time.

Phark! So had I. Not summat I was used to - had to practice it special-like, just for the test.
No "cop lurkin' in the bushes" for me - I got a genuine bike cop: "That red bike yours?"
"Yup."
"Meet me in the carpark and we'll go for a blat!"
Perhaps I took him a little literally, and went a tad fast in the 30km/h section. D'Oh!
He commented on that, but didn't fail me. But his whole treatment put me at ease, so I didn't stuff up due to nerves. Unlike the bastid that took me for my car licence; ever tried to do a 3-point turn in an Austin 1800 on a road one and a half car widths wide? Or back into a driveway the width of the car, and at an acute angle to the road?
He obviously thought, "I'll show this blardy 15 year-old he's not ready for the road!"
But... he was nowhere as scary as my instructor (my father), so he failed in his mission.

The easiest test was the HT. Once I'd got the RUC updated (it was only 5000 miles overdue...) Luckily, this was still MOT days, and the cop saw no advantage being gained in the paperwork involved in fining another Gubmint department...