Countersteering and leaning

[CookMySock]

i agree that testing it out on the straight is the best. it took me a while to figure it out but you kinda automatcl do it a litle bit

Yes it is automatic, but that is a problem in itself. If you get a fright mid-corner what is ALSO automatic is to countersteer TOWARD the corner, thereby tipping the bike upright - now you will not be going around the corner, but straight out of it and up the bank or over the centreline.

It is imperative that you tune your brain into "countersteer with the bars" mode, so that in such an emergency you revert to steering correctly, rather than picking the bike up and steering straight ahead. So steer with the bars everywhere until its completely natural for you - this sets the basis for so many opportunities for you, mainly one of "safe rider", but also opens the door for the birth of a sportbiker, and not just a commuter.

Next thing to play with is placing your body weight slightly to the inside of the corner. Just before the the corner, slide your butt back, and put your chin and torso to the left or right (inside of the corner) of the windscreen (or some other convenient landmark) and DON'T MOVE IT from there, and then countersteer into the corner - don't forget to look up where you are going, not down at the road. Don't "moto GP" hang off the bike (yet), just get used to not pulling your body back in as the bike starts to lean over. This makes sure your body weight is inside the mass of the bike, not outside it.

Why slide your butt back? Your inside arm needs to be in a straight line to the bar so you can push directly FORWARD on it at the same time as the bar comes backward towards you when the bike begins to take the corner. Yes, the bars turn left in a left hand corner, even though you are pushing forward on the left bar.

Don't try going fast doing this. Just putter around as normal, letting it all settle in.

Steve

[Tank]

He is also the fuckwit that forces his kid to ride without any insurance and rides around with his headlight on high beam. Prat.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...33#post1809433

Jezbus DB - no wonder they dont let you become a mentor despite your asking. Getting your kid to ride on the road uninsured because it will make him a better rider - where the hell do you come up with ideas like that???

And where do you get off thinking its OK to HID full beam all the time - dont you know thats dangerous to other road users (like those you are sitting behind??)

[JMemonic]

Hi Pascal and welcome, as you have seen threads here get hijack and mud gets slung fast, counter steering works, no doubt about it, MYGSXF has posted good advice and she should know Jen has done many training courses, you have had some good links to videos posted as well.

Here is a link to the website for the ACC thing that was mentioned, its called ride for ever if you have not already got the DVD then its worth a look at.

[scumdog]

Who said anything about speed & racing here??? this is a noobie asking about countersteering! Keeping your eyes UP & looking to where you want to go, is the most important thing!

True.

And I also 'push' down on the inside handle-bar to get more lean angle, dunno if that constitutes 'counter-steering but it works for me.

[The Stranger:Me]

Here's my 2cents, FWIW: The term "countersteer" was probably thought up by some academic or ACC type person who was not a bikie. I say FORGET the whole idea of countersteering because it just confuses things. Anyone who rides a bicycle [fast] automatically countersteers - you don't have to think about it since it comes naturally even though when it is analyzed or explained academically, it does not seem to make sense.

On an ACC 'ride safe' DVD Aaron Slight was asked to explain countersteering and while I forget his exact words, he dismissed the term "countersteer" and said something like "You simply LEAN into the direction you want to go."

One of the biggest difficulties for beginning bikers is to LEAN far enough so that they do not run wide on a curve. It seems as though you will fall over but you won't (unless you have crap tyres and its wet or you hit sand, etc.). My advice is to choose a corner on a quiet road with no traffic and ample visibility, then practice leaning your shoulder into the curve; do this repeatedly until you can get around quickly while leaning as far as you can without freaking out. You may learn how to do this within a short time but many riders find it takes something like 6 months / 6,000 km to lean properly.

Here is a great video showing how far you can lean. I'd love to see someone ride like this for their Basic Skills exam!!

Take the above advice for what it's worth - 2 cents, no more.

The quickest way to change direction is by countersteering and NOT leaning your body. Period!

Your bike must lean (though you need not) however to effect a turn when in motion. The quickest, most effective way to set up that lean is countersteering.

Leaning your body will complement and assist a turn, and when at or near limits may even be necessary.

Learning to ride by leaning alone is to ignore the safest most effective method of controlling your bike for turns and hazard avoidance.

[CookMySock]

And I also 'push' down on the inside handle-bar to get more lean angle, dunno if that constitutes 'counter-steering but it works for me.

Maybe pushing down might be alright for permanent pootlers who only minimally corner a bike, because they won't have the will power to scrape a peg in a dire situation anyhow, but I don't like it. There is also no path ahead for the motorcyclist to grow, because the technique is fundamentally flawed.

Pushing down does work for small changes in steering, but it's a bad habit to get into, because if you have to swerve hard in an emergency, pushing down will have limited effect, no matter how hard you push. Pushing forward is far more authorative - pushing down is like having a brake that will never work more than half way, so best not to get used to it and do it the proper way instead. But yeah, much willpower, brain reprogramming, and time is required to swerve hard.


Steve

[scumdog]

Maybe pushing down might be alright for permanent pootlers who only minimally a bike, because they won't have the will power to scrape a peg in a dire situation anyhow, but I don't like it. There is also no path ahead for the motorcyclist to grow, because the technique is fundamentally flawed.

Pushing down does work for small changes in steering, but it's a bad habit to get into, because if you have to swerve hard in an emergency, pushing down will have limited effect, no matter how hard you push. Pushing forward is far more authorative - pushing down is like having a brake that will never work more than half way, so best not to get used to it and do it the proper way instead. But yeah, much willpower, brain reprogramming, and time is required to swerve hard.


Steve

My 'push' is at an angle my arm is at normally, so it is kinda down AND forwards, probably more forwards, I found that thinking of it as down was easier than forwards.

Just the wierd way I think I guess...

[The Stranger:Me]

Just the wierd way I think I guess...

No worries Scummy, DB can totally relate to that.

[jrandom]

Maybe pushing down might be alright for permanent pootlers who only minimally a bike, because they won't have the will power to scrape a peg in a dire situation anyhow, but I don't like it. There is also no path ahead for the motorcyclist to grow, because the technique is fundamentally flawed.

Fuck, you're awesome.

Good to see you're not the sort who'll 'only minimally' a bike.

[scumdog]

Fuck, you're awesome.

Good to see you're not the sort who'll 'only minimally' a bike.

Must be them dang pesky 'minimals' that sneak up and put the damn scrape marks on my mufflers and pegs ehh!!!

[jrandom]

Must be them dang pesky 'minimals' that sneak up and put the damn scrape marks on my mufflers and pegs ehh!!!

Is the ground clearance on your Sporty better than the Twin Cam 88 Dyna models?

Cos the clearance on those is just silly. Scritchy, scritchy...

[scumdog]

Is the ground clearance on your Sporty better than the Twin Cam 88 Dyna models?

Cos the clearance on those is just silly. Scritchy, scritchy...

I'm talking about my Superglide T-Sport, the Sporty (CB has it now) was a bit harder to scrape having higher ground-clearance and being narrower - still scraped thought!!

[Ixion]

Just one point: Once you are thoroughly accustomed to bikes, and then occasionally drive a cage, do not try to steer the cage by pushing on the steering wheel to counter steer it (Don't instinctively aim for the lane 1a gap, and not bother to slow down, when the motorway locks up, either) DAMHIK.

[Pascal]

I do not think I am going to get this shit kicking grin off my face. I'd forgotten how much fun this was. And yes, that means I passed my learners. Right now. Right now I'm just looking for any excuse to take it out for another ride. How long does it take to empty 2l of milk down the drain?

"Honey, we need milk for tomorrow! I'm just popping down to the dairy!"

Do you guys ever get off?

(Oh, and thanks for the replies thus far. It's been very educational. I am slowly practicing as suggested)

[PrincessBandit]

I do not think I am going to get this shit kicking grin off my face. I'd forgotten how much fun this was. And yes, that means I passed my learners. Right now. Right now I'm just looking for any excuse to take it out for another ride. How long does it take to empty 2l of milk down the drain?

"Honey, we need milk for tomorrow! I'm just popping down to the dairy!"

Do you guys ever get off?

(Oh, and thanks for the replies thus far. It's been very educational. I am slowly practicing as suggested)

Hey congratulations on your pass!!
Probably the majority of us on here will always look for any excuse to get out on our bikes. Unfortunately for me the bloopermarket and dairy are within easy walking distance from my home so my "excuse" to hop on the bike to get stuff is immediately recognised for what it is!
Welcome to KB; you'll find heaps of advice (some of it great, some of it not really helpful, some of it total shit). Also if you spend much time in here you'll find things can get quite personal in the sledging dept. so try not to take too much personally.
On the countersteering side of it, you will probably find yourself doing it automatically as you get more comfortable with riding and the feel of your bike. Some things are best not "over-intellectualised" or you can end up more confused than you were in the first place!!

Dawn