The turning "right hand" rule - need clarification

[johan]

I have to go through three intersections like the above one on my way to work. I would estimate about 33% of the time drivers understand who has right of way. It's madness.

Here's another good example of how the road engineers completely fail to build a safe intersection on a major road in Wellington. It plain too complex for drivers to work out who has right of way. I hate going through there.

[Badjelly]

Then what would you and your band of "lets dumb it down for the idiots" brigade do??

Oh damn! I just wrote a "bye for now" post. But I have to respond.

Yes you are still stuck in the loop. They're not idiots, they're people who find some things easier to understand than others. They're people who after 30 years still think, somehow, that traffic on the side road should give way to traffic on the main road. Design some road rules that work in the real world, with human drivers, rather than ones that look good on paper!

[yungatart]

Oh damn! I just wrote a "bye for now" post. But I have to respond.

Yes you are still stuck in the loop. They're not idiots, they're people who find some things easier to understand than others. They're people who after 30 years still think, somehow, that traffic on the side road should give way to traffic on the main road. Design some road rules that work in the real world, with human drivers, rather than ones that look good on paper!

How about, instead of changing the rules to accomodate those who can not or will not understand, we make it so much harder and more expensive for those people to obtain a licence in the first place?
How about we have a much harder, more comprehensive driver testing system, zero tolerance to alcohol impaired drivers on our roads, minimum driving age of 18, repeat drunk drivers banned for ever, compulsory defensive driving course for all new drivers, practical driving test every time you renew your licence, enforcement of road rules (as opposed to enforcement of speed laws)?

Well, that is what is done in other parts of the world...must be able to work here...

[ckai]

Damn, I hope this is not a piss take.

No piss take

No, If red is on a stop or giveaway sign then blue has right of way. A turning bay is just that... to give them somewhere to safely wait while giving way to any oncoming straight through traffic.

And usually a T intersection like that is marked with a giveaway or stop sign.

This is what I was after. If it's controlled by way of signs then blue car rocks through. If nothing, treat like a round-about.

It's a tricky one, that you have to "play by ear", that is, see what happens at the time. If you do give way when you actually have right of way, explain to the tester that you were aware of the rules, but didn't assert them because you were exercising caution and the other vehicle gave every indication it wasn't going to give way to you.

Simple idea but good idea. I think a lot of people are scared to explain why they did something on a text when safety was concerned even if it wasn't by the book

Another motorist who has no idea of what they are doing. What is so difficult about giving way to the right? Do you have your hands on backwards?

I had an accident when I was young. It's an absolute asshole using the front break with your toes. The sad thing is, if I was in America they would change the right hand rule to allow for my "condition" and call it the right hand/foot rule.

Good on you for asking for clarification.
But it is really scary to think you have been riding around for approximately six months, with no idea of what to do at an intersection.

Best you learn quick young fella!

Riding 6 months, driving 15 years. Never hand or caused an accident so obviously doing something right.

I do notice that given a situation like the picture, there will nearly always be a sign (giveway or stop) to stop confusion for us mere mortals. I have come across only 2 times when there hasn't been something - round-about type situation, so right hand (foot) rule applies.

Yes it's a simple rule if minor details are cleared up (for me anyway) but obviously something is going wrong if only the minority of people get it. How do people react when traffic lights got out? Mmmmm me thinks education is lacking.

Thanks for the clear up though.

[Ixion]

In turn...

No. If traffic on an "ending road" at a T intersection had to give way to traffic on a "continuing road", I reckon most people would get it. (Given that this is what most people do now anyway.)

I really really doubt that. But feel free to support your statement with evidence from other road-rule transitions overseas.

Yes.

Until they come to a Y intersection. or the 'ending' road at a T intersection is a 'main' road, and the continuing road a smaller ('side') road. Or two 'main' or two 'side' roads intersect.

Please define how a drivers knows if the road he is on is a "main" road or a "side" road?

[Badjelly]

Please define how a drivers knows if the road he is on is a "main" road or a "side" road?

In Victoria there is a rule specifically for T intersections that refers to "ending" roads and "continuing" roads--no "main" or "side" roads. They also have something in there that says a continuous centre line on a road makes it the continuing road. So a Y can get converted into a T with some paint. (Not all that different to our rule that says the traffic following a continuous centre line is effectively going straight. If that's what it says, I find that bit confusing. Obviously I'm stupid. Me and a few others.)

[Owl]

And usually a T intersection like that is marked with a giveaway or stop sign.

Not where I live! Uncontrolled T intersections are everywhere!

[The Stranger:Me]

(Not all that different to our rule that says the traffic following a continuous centre line is effectively going straight. If that's what it says, I find that bit confusing. Obviously I'm stupid. Me and a few others.)

Yeah, I realise that. I didn't think for a minute it was malice.

[Ixion]

In Victoria there is a rule specifically for T intersections that refers to "ending" roads and "continuing" roads--no "main" or "side" roads. They also have something in there that says a continuous centre line on a road makes it the continuing road. So a Y can get converted into a T with some paint. (Not all that different to our rule that says the traffic following a continuous centre line is effectively going straight. If that's what it says, I find that bit confusing. Obviously I'm stupid. Me and a few others.)

Riggght. So now, I have to spot the give way/stop signs , if any ; spot the other vehicles indicators ; AND observe the centre line before and after,on both roads.

Weren't you the one saying it was too hard to check for the signs and indicators. And now you want us to have to inspect the centre lines as well. And what If I can't see the centre line, because I'm in the left hand lane of a busy road?


As opposed to simply saying "Is there someone on my right. Oh yeah, give way to him"

[Marmoot]

When coming up to an T intersection and you're turning right (Blue car) you give way to big red truck. Is this the same case if big red is on a stop or giveway and you are in a turning bay?

1. Look at the lines on the road (stop lines, giveway lines, etc). Lane with 1 line takes priority over lane with 2 lines. Lane with 0 line takes priority over lane with 1 line.

2. If the number of lines are the same, vehicle which can hit you on your right hand side gets the priority.

3. Vehicle size takes priority. Anything bigger than you should be given way, regardless who's at fault.

4. Your mate's sister is normally hot.

[Badjelly]

Riggght. So now, I have to spot the give way/stop signs , if any ; spot the other vehicles indicators ; AND observe the centre line before and after,on both roads.

Weren't you the one saying it was too hard to check for the signs and indicators. And now you want us to have to inspect the centre lines as well. And what If I can't see the centre line, because I'm in the left hand lane of a busy road?

As opposed to simply saying "Is there someone on my right. Oh yeah, give way to him"

To what set of road rules does your last paragraph refer? The NSW rules in the 1970s? Certainly not the ones in effect in NZ at the moment.

At most T intersections it's quite obvious which is the ending road. At some Y intersections this needs to be clarified with some paint on the road (as is already the case in NZ, for slightly different reasons). If you're on the ending road you give way to everyone else (stopping if there is a Stop sign); if you're on the continuing road you don't have to give way to traffic on that road and it doesn't concern you whether there is a Give Way or Stop sign.

As always, you have to watch out for people who fail to give way when they should.

Oh, and by the way...

And what If I can't see the centre line, because I'm in the left hand lane of a busy road?

If there are unbroken lane markings, you follow them. Vehicles moving into your lane indicate and merge in the usual way. If your lane markings end then you have to work out why and act accordingly.

[Badjelly]

1. Look at the lines on the road (stop lines, giveway lines, etc). Lane with 1 line takes priority over lane with 2 lines. Lane with 0 line takes priority over lane with 1 line.

2. If the number of lines are the same, vehicle which can hit you on your right hand side gets the priority.

3. Vehicle size takes priority. Anything bigger than you should be given way, regardless who's at fault.

4. Your mate's sister is normally hot.

How many of those are serious?

[Ixion]

To what set of road rules does your last paragraph refer? The NSW rules in the 1970s? Certainly not the ones in effect in NZ at the moment.

At most T intersections it's quite obvious which is the ending road. At some Y intersections this needs to be clarified with some paint on the road (as is already the case in NZ, for slightly different reasons). If you're on the ending road you give way to everyone else (stopping if there is a Stop sign); if you're on the continuing road you don't have to give way to traffic on that road and it doesn't concern you whether there is a Give Way or Stop sign.

As always, you have to watch out for people who fail to give way when they should.

Oh, and by the way...



If there are unbroken lane markings, you follow them. Vehicles moving into your lane indicate and merge in the usual way. If your lane markings end then you have to work out why and act accordingly.

And this is supposed to be a simplification? Do you really imagine that the people who are too stupid to apply the present rule are going to have a gnats chance of figuring that lot out ?

Oh, and how is your system going to work on gravel roads ?

[Marmoot]

How many of those are serious?

I would say all of them.

[Badjelly]

And this is supposed to be a simplification?

No.

Do you really imagine that the people who are too stupid to apply the present rule are going to have a gnats chance of figuring that lot out ?

There you go again. "The problem with the current road rules is that people are too stupid."

Oh, and how is your system going to work on gravel roads?

T intersections are straightforward. At Y and X intersections you apply the other rules.

I believe they have one or two gravel roads in Victoria. Do you know how well their road rules work there?