The turning "right hand" rule - need clarification

[Ixion]

No.



There you go again. "The problem with the current road rules is that people are too stupid."



T intersections are straightforward. At Y and X intersections you apply the other rules.

I believe they have one or two gravel roads in Victoria. Do you know how well their road rules work there?

No they're not. You're latest theory depends on using centreline markings to determine who gives way. How do you do that on a gravel road?

And "other rules" ? Are you saying that you would have MORE rules still ? My head is already spinning from figuring out whether I'm on a main road, a side road, what the centre line markings are , whether the road is ending or not , let alone stop and give signs. Oh , and the other vehicles. And you have more to go?

I'm glad you admit this is not a simplification. Weren't you the one complaining that the present method is "too hard".

[MSTRS:Me]

I had an accident when I was young. It's an absolute asshole using the front break with your toes. The sad thing is, if I was in America they would change the right hand rule to allow for my "condition" and call it the right hand/foot rule.
.

Sorry to hear that you have some sort of disability. But all vehicles are designed to suit 'normal' people. I sincerely hope that you have adapted your bike to suit your particular needs. If not, then you are a danger to yourself and others by using something that you cannot easily control.
Besides, what has any of that (vehicle control) got to do with not/understanding the road rules?

And as for the posts talking about giving way to the 'main' road....
Do those posters seriously think that there is a majority of drivers out there under the age of 45 who use the above? Where did they learn it?
Yes, it makes sense to do so, but sense doesn't make the rules...and most drivers got their licences under the current regime.

[nodrog:Me]

____________________

[Badjelly]

No they're not. You're latest theory depends on using centreline markings to determine who gives way. How do you do that on a gravel road?

In much the same way as you apply this on a gravel road....

Leaving the path of the centre line at an uncontrolled intersection

If you are leaving the path of a marked centre line at an uncontrolled intersection, you must give way to vehicles following the centre line. This is because vehicles leaving the path of the centre line are legally turning (even though sometimes they might actually be going in a straight line) and therefore, the give way rules apply.

...you don't. There aren't any centre lines on gravel roads so it doesn't apply.

And "other rules" ? Are you saying that you would have MORE rules still ?

Nope. I was referring to the other rules I suggested before, long long ago on another thread. (It was remiss of me not to refresh your memory):

• Give way to right
• Right turning gives way to everyone else (straight ahead and left-turning)
• Traffic on ending road at T intersection gives way to continuing road

To which I should have added

• Give way on give way sign
• Give way on stop sign

I'm glad you admit this is not a simplification. Weren't you the one complaining that the present method is "too hard".

There's no "admit" about it.

You really can't stop conflating simplicity with ease of application, can you?

And can you please try to be a little less shrill? (Eg. "Latest theory", "MORE rules".) I believe the current NZ road rules don't work very well. I believe the reason is more than just "people are stupid". I was challenged to suggest an alternative. I did. I only had to go across the Tasman to find one. It's not the only possible alternative. (I'm inclined to think going back to "Right turning traffic gives way to everyone else. When two vehicles are turning right, courtesy prevails" might work better. I don't think drivers in the 70s were actually more courteous than they are now; on the whole, I think they were less so, because of the lower traffic densities.) Whatever. Constructive discussion is welcome.

[Hitcher]

• Give way on give way sign
• Give way on stop sign

I have never been able to figure out, or have anybody give me a good reason, why there are two different standards for giving way at an intersection. Why can't they all be compulsory stops?

[Badjelly]

And as for the posts talking about giving way to the 'main' road....Do those posters seriously think that there is a majority of drivers out there under the age of 45 who use the above?

It is my impression that a large number of drivers, probably the majority, get the rule we've been talking about wrong. I frequently encounter these people at the top of the street I live on. Sorry, I haven't asked them how old they are. They're not all over 45.

Where did they learn it?

Yeah, that's a puzzle.

[The Stranger:Me]

Yeah, that's a puzzle.

But no worries, we'll change the law to suit.

Whilst we are at it, lets have a new law banning indicators, hell so many people can't use them or use them wrong. And lets face it, they're so bloody hard to see anyway why have them?

[MSTRS:Me]

• Give way on give way sign
• Give way on stop sign

So this is where people get it wrong? I was of the mistaken belief that I had to actually stop at one of those...

(I'm inclined to think going back to "Right turning traffic gives way to everyone else. When two vehicles are turning right, courtesy prevails" might work better.

he insurance industry (and traffic fines gathering industry) will never go for it. This is a blame society now.

I don't think drivers in the 70s were actually more courteous than they are now; on the whole, I think they were less so, because of the lower traffic densities.) Whatever. Constructive discussion is welcome.

Drivers were. As was the rest of the populace. With the odd exception of course. Today's society is almost a mirror in that regard.

[Badjelly]

So this is where people get it wrong? I was of the mistaken belief that I had to actually stop at one of those

You may smirk, but under the infamous NSW road rules in the 1970s, you had to stop at a Stop sign, but you didn't have to give way. I recall sitting in a long, stationary queue of traffic that was giving way to a succession of cars that approached from the right, stopped at a stop sign, then drove on.

The insurance industry (and traffic fines gathering industry) will never go for it. This is a blame society now.

This may be true, unfortunately.

Drivers were [more courteous in the 70s].

I beg to differ. Stopping to let someone into a line of traffic was unheard of in Auckland in the 70s. It's common now. But perhaps that's because I moved to Wellington.

[ckai]

Sorry to hear that you have some sort of disability. But all vehicles are designed to suit 'normal' people. I sincerely hope that you have adapted your bike to suit your particular needs. If not, then you are a danger to yourself and others by using something that you cannot easily control.
Besides, what has any of that (vehicle control) got to do with not/understanding the road rules?

Sorry, sarcasm is the lowest form of humour that I frequently use.

It's interesting, I post a simple request for some clarification on a situation that is, clearly, often misunderstood. I say clearly because there are some "season veterans" that are having a good 'ole discussion about the rules.

Love the shit slinging on this site though...

[Scouse]

When coming up to an T intersection and you're turning right (Blue car) you give way to big red truck. Is this the same case if big red is on a stop or giveway and you are in a turning bay.

Also a good rule of thumb here is that if you are on a motorcycle in the position that the big red truck is in and the blue car does not seem to want to give way, then dont play chicken with blue car in order to argue the point its easyer to just let him go.

[Badjelly]

It's interesting, I post a simple request for some clarification on a situation that is, clearly, often misunderstood. I say clearly because there are some "season veterans" that are having a good 'ole discussion about the rules.

Love the shit slinging on this site though...

Yeah, sorry for playing a part in derailing your thread, mate. Your timing was a bit ... unfortunate.

[MSTRS:Me]

Sorry, sarcasm is the lowest form of humour that I frequently use.

It's interesting, I post a simple request for some clarification on a situation that is, clearly, often misunderstood. I say clearly because there are some "season veterans" that are having a good 'ole discussion about the rules.

Then best not be using it in the context of my attempt to clarify something you have trouble with. I can't speak for others, but I was genuinely trying to help.
I just can't understand why anyone would have trouble with the right hand rule. Or with indicating at roundabouts.
All I am left with is the realisation that there are a fuckload of blithering idiots out there who fluked their driving tests.

[Owl]

I have never been able to figure out, or have anybody give me a good reason, why there are two different standards for giving way at an intersection. Why can't they all be compulsory stops?

You've sort of answered your own question. They are two different standards, with stop being the major and give way being the minor. Why have compulsory stops at minor intersections?

[ckai]

Yeah, sorry for playing a part in derailing your thread, mate. Your timing was a bit ... unfortunate.

Hey, everyone has the right to vent. I got my answers (and a little more ) so I'm cool. At least I know I was doing things the right way, even if I was in the minority bracket.

Then best not be using it in the context of my attempt to clarify something you have trouble with. I can't speak for others, but I was genuinely trying to help.
I just can't understand why anyone would have trouble with the right hand rule. Or with indicating at roundabouts.
All I am left with is the realisation that there are a fuckload of blithering idiots out there who fluked their driving tests.

Why do people speed up on passing lanes or drive fast on straights and not keep the same "pace" around corners?? New Zealanders are educated inappropriately when it comes to the roads. They're educated, just not well enough. I'm the type of person they reckons more education not more restrictions (e.g. laws) improves road safety.

I don't bitch or complain about it. I try and do something about it.