NZ Police sex changes.

[Dafe]

I do object to it being paid for by the taxpayers though, (if it was) it was his/her "choice", not mine or yours!



There but for the grace of God, go I. So they say! Cheers John.

I don't know who covered the costs, but I'd imagine if it affected Sarah's ability to concentrate properly on her job, then funding would be available to her.

After all, the Labour Government pays for Prisoners to undergo sex changes, along with their own occassional MP's operations.

As long as you're requiring sexual natured medical attention and you're not a working class tax payer requiring life saving medical treatment, then you should be eligable for government funding.

[Ixion]

New Zealand "is" a Socialist country, the populace is majority socialist thinking, all of the major political parties on offer are socialist.

They are all left of center. (Including ACT, IMHO)

Look up any definition of Socialism for yourselves and see if it fits.

You can have any colour government you like in NZ as long as it's socialist!

A bit like Henry Fords Model T, any colour you like as long as it's black!

..

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Well, (1) an (2) certainly don't suit NZ. Show me any current political party that advocates collective or state ownership of the means of production and distribution.

And to accept (3) we would have to accept that NZ is not a capitalist society, which would infer that almost every country on earth was socialist, which seems manifestly incorrect.

The classic litmus test for a socialist government is that it advocates, and acts on, the principle of state or communal ownership of the means of production , distribution and exchange. No major NZ party supports this. Noone is going to nationalise Air NZ or Telecom.

[Madness]

You guys need to get out & ride more often, Dafe especially.

[xwhatsit]

The educated are - Sparsely here it would seem.

Yeah, I can see that

Your reaction to this quite un-newsworthy piece of information seems to be a mix of two of your prejudices -- the current `authority' presiding over you (combination of the government currently in power and the police), and you also seem to have a powerful fear of homosexuality. Combine the two and your old-world ultra-conservative brain seems to have overheated. There's very little you've posted in this thread which has actually made much sense to me.

You speak of a drop in standards. How, in this particular case (not interested in the rest of the bullshit), has this reflected on a drop in standards? What standards, that should be there in your view, is she failing?

[Dafe]

or

1) This labour government is promoting Chinese trade relations.
The government's trade policies is forcing many NZ companies into offshore production. The government makes these decisions themselves and companies are put in a position whereby they participate or face certain company closure.
That is governmental administration directly affecting this countries production and goods distribution.

2) Private Property - How many other countries in the world allow any other nationailty to purchase their land? How many other governments are selling off their national forests/assets to offshore investors? Even the commercial buildings. The way of the future is fast not becoming the 1/4 acre dream.
The private property is infact quickly dissapearing offshore.
When I think of a society in which means of production are owned/controlled by the state, I think how New Zealand companies are forced into Labours asian trade sectors. If the government takes a good third of a companies money in taxes, they as good as own a third.

3) Unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done.
Would that be anything like New Zealands taxpayers receiving no government assisted medical treatment for things like the Herceptin drug.
Whereas the government will pay medical charges for sex changes to non tax paying prisoners?

From the comments you listed, I see a trend towards Socialism. No we are not hardcore, yet. We are defvinately facing down that path now.

We have a government that alters laws at it's own will.
Even alters laws against the will of %80 plus of the nation.
This government is not a government for the people. They're in it for their own profitability.

[oldrider]

Well, (1) an (2) certainly don't suit NZ. Show me any current political party that advocates collective or state ownership of the means of production and distribution.

And to accept (3) we would have to accept that NZ is not a capitalist society, which would infer that almost every country on earth was socialist, which seems manifestly incorrect.

The classic litmus test for a socialist government is that it advocates, and acts on, the principle of state or communal ownership of the means of production , distribution and exchange. No major NZ party supports this. Noone is going to nationalise Air NZ or Telecom.

So many men, so many opinions, I believe that they are all tinkering and delving in the those things because that is what the voters want and that is the direction that the political opportunists of NZ will give them, by degree.

That is why I believe New Zealand is a Socialist country, State control and interference is everywhere, if it moves tax it, if still moves legislate against it, control, control, rules, rules bloody rules!

I value my freedom and the right to choose as long as I am not harming or affecting anyone else, that is why I like riding motorcycles! John

[Swoop]

Two questions please?

#1. Are there differing standards of fitness test for males and females to be accepted into the police? (If so, which did the person attempt???)

#2. If assigned to motorcycle duty, will the person be required to ride sidesaddle?

[Dafe]

Yeah, I can see that

Your reaction to this quite un-newsworthy piece of information seems to be a mix of two of your prejudices -- the current `authority' presiding over you (combination of the government currently in power and the police), and you also seem to have a powerful fear of homosexuality. Combine the two and your old-world ultra-conservative brain seems to have overheated. There's very little you've posted in this thread which has actually made much sense to me.

You speak of a drop in standards. How, in this particular case (not interested in the rest of the bullshit), has this reflected on a drop in standards? What standards, that should be there in your view, is she failing?

Considering the fact that my work colleague is very out there and I spend most hours of the day enjoying his company, I'd say you've put the round into the chamber backwards buddy!

I'm speaking standards from 10-20 years ago. When we had a nation that was respectful and proud. When murders & rapes was a rarity not a common daily occurance. When people could leave front doors open all night.

I've clearly mentioned this twice previously. The issue here is not personal.
It's not about "Sarah". It's about one standard dropping after another.
The Height, Pre-entrance tests, physical tests, personal presentation, now sexual gender changings which previously would have been unacceptable.

Sure we are seeing the current generation lightening up in many aspects, but with it comes increased corruption, crime and death. All of which just become acceptable in such a society as todays.

I hate the way the education system, promotes equalness, The New Zealand education approach is the opposite to Australias.
In Australia they promote striving ahead, standing out above the rest and winning.
In New Zealand, It is not PC to make one child feel lesser than another, so such behaviour is not promoted in such ways.
Seems to me like a perfect policy for breeding a nation of followers.

[Ixion]

or

1) This labour government is promoting Chinese trade relations.
The government's trade policies is forcing many NZ companies into offshore production. The government makes these decisions themselves and companies are put in a position whereby they participate or face certain company closure.
That is governmental administration directly affecting this countries production and goods distribution.

This would be absolute anathema to a Socialist government. The first Labour government (which was vaguely socialist) made it law that anyone wanting to sell in NZ must manufacture in NZ (more or less - I simplify). No way would a Socialist government allow NZ jobs to be lost overseas.

2) Private Property - How many other countries in the world allow any other nationailty to purchase their land? How many other governments are selling off their national forests/assets to offshore investors? Even the commercial buildings. The way of the future is fast not becoming the 1/4 acre dream.
The private property is infact quickly dissapearing offshore.
When I think of a society in which means of production are owned/controlled by the state, I think how New Zealand companies are forced into Labours asian trade sectors. If the government takes a good third of a companies money in taxes, they as good as own a third.

Socialism has no problem with private property, so long as it is PRIVATE. Your stuff. That doesn't extend to big foreign corporations. So far from a Socialist government allowing foreigners to buy our lands, forests, buildings, they would in fact compulsarily nationalise all those already owned off shore and return them to Kiwi ownership (whether the present "owners" should be compensated is a matter of argument.)

3) Unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done.
Would that be anything like New Zealands taxpayers receiving no government assisted medical treatment for things like the Herceptin drug.
Whereas the government will pay medical charges for sex changes to non tax paying prisoners?

Your example doesn't seem very relevant. The question of pay in relation to work is not a central tenet of socialism. In general most socialists subscribe to a model that maintains the principle that those who work harder, or whose work is more valuable should be paid more. But consider that such differentials should not be so great as to promote a class society where there are rich and poor. I'm not sure if you approve of pay differentials or not. If someone works overtime , should they not be paid extra? If someone studies to acquire an extra useful skill, should that not be acknowledged?

From the comments you listed, I see a trend towards Socialism. No we are not hardcore, yet. We are defvinately facing down that path now.

We have a government that alters laws at it's own will.
Even alters laws against the will of %80 plus of the nation.
This government is not a government for the people. They're in it for their own profitability.

Your own examples show a government that is certainly NOT socialist. Surely this is manifestly explicit in your own statement "the government --- is in it for their own profitability" . How can that possibly be equated with socialism? It is the direct opposite.

[Dafe]

This would be absolute anathema to a Socialist government. The first Labour government (which was vaguely socialist) made it law that anyone wanting to sell in NZ must manufacture in NZ (more or less - I simplify). No way would a Socialist government allow NZ jobs to be lost overseas.

It is the previous labour governments members that are rubbishing the current labour government.

[xwhatsit]

Considering the fact that my work colleague is very out there and I spend most hours of the day enjoying his company, I'd say you've put the round into the chamber backwards buddy!

I'm speaking standards from 10-20 years ago. When we had a nation that was respectful and proud. When murders & rapes was a rarity not a common daily occurance. When people could leave front doors open all night.

I've clearly mentioned this twice previously. The issue here is not personal.
It's not about "Sarah". It's about one standard dropping after another.
The Height, Pre-entrance tests, physical tests, personal presentation, now sexual gender changings which previously would have been unacceptable.

Sure we are seeing the current generation lightening up in many aspects, but with it comes increased corruption, crime and death. All of which just become acceptable in such a society as todays.

I hate the way the education system, promotes equalness, The New Zealand education approach is the opposite to Australias.
In Australia they promote striving ahead, standing out above the rest and winning.
In New Zealand, It is not PC to make one child feel lesser than another, so such behaviour is not promoted in such ways.
Seems to me like a perfect policy for breeding a nation of followers.

Whoah whoah whoah. No, it is about Sarah. That's where you brought the issue up. I know it's not personal, but you are opposed to sex changes in the police force.

That's quite a bold and antiquated statement to make. Explain your reasoning why sex changes should be banned for police officers.

[Dafe]

Your own examples show a government that is certainly NOT socialist. Surely this is manifestly explicit in your own statement "the government --- is in it for their own profitability" . How can that possibly be equated with socialism? It is the direct opposite.

My statements are that we are looking down a path of socialist ways. I even clearly stated that we are not hardcore socialist. That we are trending the socialist way. That's not to say that the government will suddenly distribute any earnings evenly to you or me. There are simply socialist trends falling into place.

[Dafe]

Whoah whoah whoah. No, it is about Sarah. That's where you brought the issue up. I know it's not personal, but you are opposed to sex changes in the police force.

That's quite a bold and antiquated statement to make. Explain your reasoning why sex changes should be banned for police officers.

This Country is turning to Shit! The Government's SHIT! Now, The Police Force is just plain SHIT!

What ever happened to the New Zealand that constituted assets like pride, dignity, teamwork, loyalty and safety?

It wasn't so long ago that this country was respectable and that the NZ Police force were even respectable.

So where exactly is this Labour Government leading the people of New Zealand?

Now.......... The latest ammendment to our NZ Police,
Sex Changed Police!

http://www.stuff.co.nz//4034779a11.html

I'm sorry - But in my eyes - The NZ Police have just lost all credibility.
I don't care if it's only one individual - Fact is, It's a Police wide lack of standards. To hell with Political Correctness.
Take some pride and have the balls to reject the Freaks! Have some Credibility!

This is from the first post!

See where it says - I don't care if it's only one individual - Fact is, It's a Police wide lack of standards?

Well in this is thread I'm strangely enough discussing the drop in Police standards over the years. As has been everybody else.

Are you taking some sort of personal offence to this thread?

I'm actually more interested in the fact that - The police are under alot of public attention due to many recent sexual allegations.
The next thing I hear is this! What happened to "Rickards stood down!" etc?

[Ixion]

It is the previous labour governments members that are rubbishing the current labour government.

First labour government. 1935. Neither the previous nor the present labour governments were socialist.

[Grahameeboy]

I'm speaking standards from 10-20 years ago. When we had a nation that was respectful and proud. When murders & rapes was a rarity not a common daily occurance. When people could leave front doors open all night.

Are murders / rape a common daily experience? I leave my back door open at night.

I've clearly mentioned this twice previously. The issue here is not personal.
It's not about "Sarah". It's about one standard dropping after another.
The Height, Pre-entrance tests, physical tests, personal presentation, now sexual gender changings which previously would have been unacceptable.

Does not being acceptable 10-20 years ago mean that it should still be unacceptable?

Sure we are seeing the current generation lightening up in many aspects, but with it comes increased corruption, crime and death. All of which just become acceptable in such a society as todays.

Mmmm..corruption, crime and death was a daily sport in the Roman times.....it was acceptable then. Maybe it is just the way of things?

I hate the way the education system, promotes equalness, The New Zealand education approach is the opposite to Australias.
In Australia they promote striving ahead, standing out above the rest and winning.
In New Zealand, It is not PC to make one child feel lesser than another, so such behaviour is not promoted in such ways.
Seems to me like a perfect policy for breeding a nation of followers.

Is equalness standing still?

....................................