You can't have your cake and eat it too

[Ixion]

what the hell?
i thought this thread was about washing machines

According to the thread title, it's about cake. Pickles are closer to cake than washing machines are.

[jrandom]

We can produce all the gherkins (and dills , and pickled onions, and cocktail ones, and bread-and-butter cucumbers etc) that your heart could desire

Mmmm. Gherkins. Pickled onions. Cowcumber sammidges.

Food of the gods.

On another note, what's with all the general bemoaning of NZ turning into a third-world country if we're so bloody keen to hang onto the third-world jobs?

If our low-end labour force was happy to live as crappily as the labour in Thailand or southern China does, then I'm sure we could compete just fine and dandy.

Since they aren't happy to live that way, it kinda looks like they'll have to learn how to add a bit more value in return for the lifestyle they seem to feel entitled to.

Seems like the bitching on this thread would have us turn NZ into France, using up huge chunks of our GDP subsidising dead-end jobs and inefficient industries.

[jonbuoy]

How is it then that some countries still manage to have manufacturing - France still churns out cars by the thousands - even Sweden has Saab and thats one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in, France, Germany and Holland still have their ship yards. If they are getting government subsidies its still better than paying thousands of people to sit at home on their backsides all day. Or maybe they find a way to work smarter and cut costs?

[jrandom]

... maybe they find a way to work smarter and cut costs?

You are speaking of companies on the ragged bleeding edge of unprofitability, held there in the vice-like grip of national trade unions.

Also, bear in mind that when real skill is required in industrial assembly, those jobs cannot be exported to banana republics. Note that F&P isn't, for example, sending its Dish Drawer manufacturing overseas - those units are just too fiddly.

Places like Thailand can supply only the most brain-dead sort of unskilled labour, and there are many sad tales out there of companies that foolishly thought differently.

[sAsLEX]

How is it then that some countries still manage to have manufacturing - France still churns out cars by the thousands - even Sweden has Saab and thats one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in, France, Germany and Holland still have their ship yards. If they are getting government subsidies its still better than paying thousands of people to sit at home on their backsides all day. Or maybe they find a way to work smarter and cut costs?

More and more ships are going to the big Asian companies like Hyundai and the other Korean ones...... hell where did we get the latest Navy ship built?

[jrandom]

Hyundai...

South Korea definitely no longer counts as a Third World supplier of unskilled labour.

[Big Dave]

Places like Thailand can supply only the most brain-dead sort of unskilled labour, and there are many sad tales out there of companies that foolishly thought differently.

I read that Triumph are building Bonnevilles there now. Will be interesting to see how they fare.

[Grahameeboy]

Of course you can blame the government. It's their job to look after this country not see our jobs go off shore. And how is it a two way thing?

And if F&P are not interested in being an NZ company anymore (and Woolf Fisher would turn in his grave at that notion, he was a decent bastard - for a boss), then tell them to piss off, and slap some trade restrictions on imports so a new , genuine NZ company can have a go. And by the way, those patents, they go to the new company.

What is needed is to have a deal where GST on NZ mae stuff is 6% and GST on imported stuff is 25%. Then we'd see jobs coming back.

Sorry disagree..........Provenco is a perfect example of overseas trade and have just cut a deal with a supplier in the UK and this was without help from the Govt so it is also down to the Company too......heard of marketing.........you cannot expect the Govt to bail companies out if they struggle.......competition is nothing new globally.

Imports also help provide jobs and money too............we are a small nation and can only export so much.

[jonbuoy]

More and more ships are going to the big Asian companies like Hyundai and the other Korean ones...... hell where did we get the latest Navy ship built?

MRV was Holland and the others spread between AUS and NZ. Specialised or top end stuff still seems to be Germany/Holland/Japan/Norway/France.

[lb99]

Only if you have kids...

theres the problem right there.

The country needs kids, lots of em, they are the taxpayers of the future.
Too many people (some parents included) are self absorbed in the relentless pursuit of more money, often at the expense of the family they are trying to cultivate.
We need to concentrate on bringing up our kids with the morals and ethics that will make them a decent contribution to society in the future, and if that means someone in the family unit needs to quit work to get those kids out of childcare where they are currently ignored/running riot/being brainwashed into patronising PC fluffy bunnies, and be at home to train them in the way our parents trained us, then so be it, tighten your belt, and live on a lower income.

I have 4 kids, and a mortgatge, and between us my wife and I earn less than 60k, and while we do appreciate the return of some of our tax via WFF, we were doing ok without it, our kids are healthy, smart, and under control.
WFF will not last forever, it can't, so what we have done with ours is to make sure that we use it to get as far ahead as possible in readyness for the day that we have a sudden drop in our income due to WFF being cancelled, it was only a vote buying scheme anyway, what pisses me off is the people who refuse to make do with the deal they have earned/been given and relentlessly demand more for less from a society that simply cannot sustain it in the long term, when WFF goes those people are totally fucked.

Being poor is not so bad, but being unhappy sucks.

[Grahameeboy]

theres the problem right there.

The country needs kids, lots of em, they are the taxpayers of the future.
Too many people (some parents included) are self absorbed in the relentless pursuit of more money, often at the expense of the family they are trying to cultivate.
We need to concentrate on bringing up our kids with the morals and ethics that will make them a decent contribution to society in the future, and if that means someone in the family unit needs to quit work to get those kids out of childcare where they are currently ignored/running riot/being brainwashed into patronising PC fluffy bunnies, and be at home to train them in the way our parents trained us, then so be it, tighten your belt, and live on a lower income.

I have 4 kids, and a mortgatge, and between us my wife and I earn less than 60k, and while we do appreciate the return of some of our tax via WFF, we were doing ok without it, our kids are healthy, smart, and under control.
WFF will not last forever, it can't, so what we have done with ours is to make sure that we use it to get as far ahead as possible in readyness for the day that we have a sudden drop in our income due to WFF being cancelled, it was only a vote buying scheme anyway, what pisses me off is the people who refuse to make do with the deal they have earned/been given and relentlessly demand more for less from a society that simply cannot sustain it in the long term, when WFF goes those people are totally fucked.

Being poor is not so bad, but being unhappy sucks.

Good post...............I only claimed WWF because I don't feel right applying for other things I am entitled which I class as 'Benefits' if you know what I mean.

In my circumstances it helps as I have equal shared custody of my disabled Daughter so need a flexible hours job with a firm who understand my situation but pay not great and need to stay in the area for various reasons..schooling as my x lives in Devonport plus Devonport is ideal for Nats for getting around and having some independance...I also rent a room which is tax free to help...
you just need to do what is needed...

[sAsLEX]

MRV was Holland and the others spread between AUS and NZ. Specialised or top end stuff still seems to be Germany/Holland/Japan/Norway/France.

Watching the building of the new 45s over here in UK they are going to be a tasty bit of kit, and the new carriers are going to be built here as well...... whats that a govt fully supporting its own nation by creating huge industry when they could get it done cheaper in xxxxx?

[Grahameeboy]

Watching the building of the new 45s over here in UK they are going to be a tasty bit of kit, and the new carriers are going to be built here as well...... whats that a govt fully supporting its own nation by creating huge industry when they could get it done cheaper in xxxxx?

Understand your point, however, they probably do not have the expertise over here to build Frigates.....could be wrong....UK has a reputation as a boat builder.............what does NZ have a reputation as?

Like Fishers, when they started washing machines etc were a new thing but now 70 years later they are an need to have accessory so everyone is making them.....I mean here we are moaning that we do are losing out but on the other side of the coin, why shouldn't Asian countries seize opportunities.....

[MisterD]

theres the problem right there.

The country needs kids, lots of em, they are the taxpayers of the future.

Sort of. In reality taxpayers' kids are the tax payers of the future, beneficiaries breed guess what...unfortunately the latter are popping them out like rabbits, many of the former are staying childless.

[lb99]

Sort of. In reality taxpayers' kids are the tax payers of the future, beneficiaries breed guess what...unfortunately the latter are popping them out like rabbits, many of the former are staying childless.

uhh, yeah thats what I was trying to say, but I omitted to state what we are all thinking, cheers