Depression...

[vifferman]

Although it may be well intentioned, I think people should avoid the temptation to diagnose the mental health conditions of others when they have no formal training in psychology or, if they do, without doing a proper consultation.

Seeing as I was the recipient of that "diagnosis", I will chip in here.
What you're saying is fair enough, Hitcher, but I took that advice in the spirit in which it was intended, and it was very good. Ocean1, smoky and morefastererer have all given advice that I appreciate and find reassuring. I didn't for a minute think they were being either diagnostic or prescriptive, just helpful and concerned.
I realise you were being careful to ensure that "people should avoid the temptation to diagnose the mental health conditions of others when they have no formal training in psychology or, if they do, without doing a proper consultation." Fair enough, and thanks for your concern. I think you overdid the justification of your position however, and it tended to devalue and belittle the excellent nature of the posts.

[vifferman]

Me for one, I'd be seriously pissed if you gave up.

Not about to do that - I'm just frustrated, confused, bewildered and scared.

Had any luck doing it by youself?

Some, but only temporary.
And at least I've had more success in working out what works, what doesn't, and what side-effects I can/can't live with than the "health professionals".

Not suggesting that every health Pro knows more about your problem than you do but give 'em some credit.

I do.
But I'm looking for one that doesn't just dip into the lolly bag and give me some meds, but takes a more holistic approach.

Belief is the ultimate barrier to knowledge, and make no mistake self knowledge is the only begining to your journey. Use their advice carefully by all means, but use it. Not suggesting you simply do what your told either though, research the links between epilepsy and depression. Research the use of Epilim and it's effects.

Of course I did that.

It's not unusual for those not intimately familliar with depression to think there's some form of self control lacking or actual choice available. Those close to you aren't imune to that, and that can be hard to deal with. Has the wife talked to a Pro about it?

Agreed. No, she hasn't. I don't think it would help. She *knows* it's not just situational/attitudinal, but still (habitually) acts as though it is.
It's hard for her, and I'm not criticising, just making an observation.

This might help:

The Silent Killer of Intimacy

Yes. Thanks for that.

[vifferman]

As a user of Epilim, I would suggest that you at least give it a try. I've never heard of it being used for depression but it's a very benign drug. At the very least do some interdweeb research and see if there's anything that applies to you that would render it unsuitable.

Thanx for that - I appreciate you sharing your experience.

[vifferman]

You sound bipolar to me – rather than just depressed. I wouldn’t be scared to try Epilim;

It’s used for treating people with bipolar. They don’t really know how it works but it is a mood stabiliser, I think it increases the activity of receptors that respond to the neurotransmitter acid in your brain, that act as a natural 'nerve-calming' agent.
You will notice however with long term use you may put on weight, worst case scenario is it could affect your liver or pancreas. Your doctor should have your blood tested to monitor your liver function for the first six months of taking it.

One thing I would mention though is how it’s linked to an increase in aggression and confusion – if you start to notice that side of things be careful.

But remember; what works for one person may not work for someone else. So you really need to shop around and find a doctor your comfortable with – my suggestion is you tell the old doctor your not comfortable with him and ask if he knows of anyone you may feel comfortable with – you’ll be surprised how well he’ll take it and he will probably know someone for you to try. When it comes to depression or bipolar issues – doctors don’t normally have egos and are real happy for you to say things like that.

Try therapy, therapy is not about getting all the answers or advice; it’s a way of learning more about your self, and getting honest feedback. It can help you regain confidence in yourself.
Educate your self by reading about bipolar, learn what triggers your moods, join a support group, keep a very tight routine sleep, eat and crap the same time each day and take time to exercise daily.

I know this is unpopular but avoid alcohol and recreational drugs, at lest while your not feeling right.

I have a theory about water and vibration, about positive language and the cellular make up of our bodies – and how we have more control of things like this than we realise – if your interested PM me.

This is all very good advice, Smoky, and I appreciate it.

I'm not stupid (and I know you weren't implying it), but I knew the specialist was angling for a bipolar diagnosis. He wnet through a questionnaire (without saying what it was - but I knew), and it ended up being very inconclusive. The trouble was, I've been on various drooogs so long that I can't remember what is normal/not normal, and also can't remember a whole bunch of stuff, so I wasn't sure of the answers.
It ended up like [paraphrase of what I think he was saying/not saying]:
"Damn! I was hoping you were bipolar, and I'd have an easy diagnosis, but you don't fit in my box. Here - take these anyway, and we'll see what happens. Come back in a month. $300 please."
He did tell me what the Epilim was, and how it functioned (also as a mood stabiliser). I'd guessed it was probably fairly benign, as the interdweeb research didn't turn up anything significant he hadn't already told me.
I don't like the prospect of putting on MORE weight, nor the prospect of any more side-effects. I've put on around 10kg, and it's not easy to shift, as I can't exercise much due to the arthritis (2-minute stints). Plus I sort of need the comfort food and occasional alcoholic beverage.
I can live with feeling crappy, as long as I feel like I'm ME at the core.
I don't see the point in giving up stuff I like (beer, wine, chocolate, coffee), as that diminishes my appreciation of life. One of the drugs my GP was going to prescribe (presumably a tricyclic) would've meant no beer, wine, salami, cheese, sausages, chocolate, tryptophan (helps me sleep, and with the depression) etc etc. Fuck that.

Look everyone (Kittyhawk, smoky, morefastererer, ocean1, BMW, Katwyn, even Hitcher, etc. excuse me if I left your name out - it was unintentional):
I appreciate all your advice, help, experiences, kind words, etc. It all helps to sort things out. Now I just need a therapist.
Maybe I'll take the Epilim, maybe I won't.
I don't think it was a very rational prescription; to me it smacked more of, "I'm farkt if I know what to do - you're an enigma/abberration/blot on my escutcheon, and even tough I've been practicing trick-cyclery since the '50s, I'm a bit stumped. Take these drugs, and... and... well, if they don't help, I've a baziilion others"

[Ocean1]

Not about to do that - I'm just frustrated, confused, bewildered and scared.

Some, but only temporary.
And at least I've had more success in working out what works, what doesn't, and what side-effects I can/can't live with than the "health professionals".

I do.
But I'm looking for one that doesn't just dip into the lolly bag and give me some meds, but takes a more holistic approach.

Of course I did that.

Agreed. No, she hasn't. I don't think it would help. She *knows* it's not just situational/attitudinal, but still (habitually) acts as though it is.
It's hard for her, and I'm not criticising, just making an observation.

Yes. Thanks for that.

OK, free advice is usually worth exactly what you pay for it. If you see me offer a piece of advice then do me a favour and ignore it, I’ll try to simply make observations based on my experience. If I lecture forgive me, it’s just me thinking out loud, be aware that I have no professional qualifications to back up any of it.

I will not discuss drugs, simply not qualified on either side of that equation. Find better help, pay whatever it costs. Not gona do the blow by blow thing either, just my personal thoughts:

In a similar condition to you I learned to trust my logic, not my emotions. However, like it or not emotions are what directs our actions at levels not accessible to intellect. I know I made poor strategic decisions exactly because I wanted to feel better about myself in the short term. Like hiding so that I could believe I was protecting my friends from having to deal with my problem. That particular tactic cost me more than one lover.

Although I’ve never seen a reference to it I believe depression has elements of addiction to it. The waves of sadness seem to be generated / synonymous with a burst of adrenaline. You’re brain likes that, but it amounts to a pretty strong driver of habitual behaviour. I think this is what causes attention seeking behaviour amongst some sufferers and may explain some of the “harden up” messages even from people who have had personal contact with the enemy. This is in no way a criticism of your behaviour here, or there for that matter, just general observations remember? Just check, ask yourself if you seem to focus on opportunities to over-analyse what’s wrong with yourself. The rules of engagement for any other form of addiction seem to apply. Can you find ways to focus more on those methods you already know work to avoid those mini hits? A lot of such methods are findable amongst the collected disciplines called CBT. I found a large part of what resolution I arrived at came from the collected minutiae of such behavioural tricks, call it emotional hygiene 101. They didn’t change who I am, just how I felt about that.

To summarise: I’m not suggesting you harden up, simply that you consider alternative ways that you may already have in your toolbox to deal with those things you can change. Perhaps even construct a formal written strategy listing whatever resources you have and how best to use them. For some, if not most, to get to the place where that’s easier to do requires drugs, but I believe that the ultimate goal is to reorganise the existing wiring. What wires can you reach right now?

[vifferman]

Find better help, pay whatever it costs.

Fer sher.
Cost's not an issue.
The issue is: Where to go? Who to see?
I went to the specialist with no really strategy, just a vague hope that I hadn't formulated into words.
I think now that what I was looking for is someone I could establish a rapport with, who could draw out of me some issues I have, buried or oitherwise, and then offer me some direction as to what I could do about it. I also went to a psychiatrist rather than psychologist as I wanted someone who could prescribe something if necessary. Instead I ended up with someone who didn't do the therapy side of things too well, and was just looking to pigeonhole me: "I dunno what this is, but I hope this is bipolar disorder, coz I know how to deal with that!"

In a similar condition to you I learned to trust my logic, not my emotions. However, like it or not emotions are what directs our actions at levels not accessible to intellect. I know I made poor strategic decisions exactly because I wanted to feel better about myself in the short term.

I've made some poor decisions because I thought I was functioning and had reasoned things through, whereas I was actually functioning at a less than optimal level, and that in itself meant I wasn't able to recognise the dysfunction.
(Interestingly [or not], I'm crap emotionally at the moment, and more productive/functional than I was when I was well-managed from a medical point of view and on Effexor. It sort of goes along with what my GP said, which was essentially that I may be the type of person who is more creative/productive when I'm free to suffer or subject to not having brain function inhibited in any way. Maybe that smacks of bipolarism, but like Richard Gere's character in whatever that film about the guy with bipolar disorder was called it's worth experiencing the crud to get the highs. I feel more alive at the moment, even though it's kinda suckful.)

Although I’ve never seen a reference to it I believe depression has elements of addiction to it. The waves of sadness seem to be generated / synonymous with a burst of adrenaline.

I have to admit there are times when I almost like to wallow in it, but by and large I'm tired of that.
What's important to me is that I am ME and I can function.
If drugs take that away, then I'm not living, just existing, and that's not good enough.

To summarise: I’m not suggesting you harden up, simply that you consider alternative ways that you may already have in your toolbox to deal with those things you can change. Perhaps even construct a formal written strategy listing whatever resources you have and how best to use them.

Good stuff.
I regret that I didn't have the forethought / presence of mind to document the effects of various treatments I've had: doses, length of time, effects (good/bad), mood, etc. as there are now big holes. The five (5!) pages of crap I gave the specialist contained references to drugs I don't even remember (like dothiepin), and I couldn't tell him if they were good/bad/any help at all; all I could say was "well, they must've been crap, or I would've taken them for longer".
Obviously, I haven't been systematic about this, but more importantly, the "health professionals" have been less than stellar in their performance too, so the thousands of dollars spent in the last 6 years have been largely wasted. I could've had a second bike, or a few weeks' skiing instead!

For some, if not most, to get to the place where that’s easier to do requires drugs, but I believe that the ultimate goal is to reorganise the existing wiring. What wires can you reach right now?

I'm not quite sure what you mean.
I think you mean that "I need to learn to change my behaviour/attitudes so that things work better for me, and use drugs where I can to facilitate this and/or patch the holes where this isn't enough" ??

[Ocean1]

PM sent dude. Don't mind an audience, just don't need one either.

[Ocean1]

Interesting, a specific take I haven't seen in quite this form:

http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/artic..._disorder.html

Which leads to:

http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/artic...inventory.html

And:

http://www.hypoglycemia.asn.au/artic...emic_diet.html

Which looks like no fun at all, and disturbingly similar to all the rest of the "healthy eating" advice I get But might be worth a shot... if you're desperate

[smoky]

On a lighter note – In my job I use to work with a lot of mental health clients – I interviewed a girl once and completed an application for her, but she never completed the process. A year later she turns up again and asks to do an application – I start doing a new one and notice she is using a different name and details, I confront her with the old application and ask why – she replied “oh that’s the other me, I used to be schizophrenic but we're better now”.
She then asked if the new application could be in both their names!

Some tips for life;.
You know your going to a dodgy doctor if his tongue depressors taste of Popsicles
Therapy is expensive, popping bubble wrap is cheap
Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs.

Here’s a good question; If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill herself, is it considered a hostage situation?

[Indiana_Jones]

Alcamahol is my friend

-Indy

[vifferman]

Alcamahol is my friend

-Indy

Not really.

[Krusti]

Caught the second half of Doco on TV1 last week. Excellent.

Interviewed many people including the guy who wrote book re 'Black Dog' (pardon my ingnorance but had never heard of this)

Would have to be one of the most informative doco's I have seen.

[vifferman]

Caught the second half of Doco on TV1 last week. Excellent.

Interviewed many people including the guy who wrote book re 'Black Dog' (pardon my ingnorance but had never heard of this)

Would have to be one of the most informative doco's I have seen.

Does anyone have a copy of it?
I'd like to see it, find out if I'm depressed or what....

[Ocean1]

Alcamahol is my friend

-Indy

Not really.

Yer, more like a bad lover, tempting but usually not worth the price.

Caught the second half of Doco on TV1 last week. Excellent.

Interviewed many people including the guy who wrote book re 'Black Dog' (pardon my ingnorance but had never heard of this)

Would have to be one of the most informative doco's I have seen.

Did see it, quite good. "The black dog" was what Churchill called his personal demon. Guess the thing I took most out of the doco was the level of recognition the disorder is getting over the last few years. Like a lot of health issues there isn't a single magic bullet, sometimes there's no ammo at all other than whatever's in your personal armoury. But at least now it's less likely to go undiagnosed and untreated. The instances of suicide in the western world has dropped fairly dramatically over the last few years in direct proportion to depression prescription drug use.

[Ocean1]

Does anyone have a copy of it?
I'd like to see it, find out if I'm depressed or what....

Sorry dude, there was a reference to TVNZ's website at the end, doubt it's a download of the doco but it's worth contacting them...