Spying? What spying?

[peasea]

Pah! - This is the same as the Police using paid informants to infiltrate gangs.

Or gangs using unpaid informants to infiltrate the police....

[Big Dog]

How would YOU feel if someone reported on your conversations, perhaps a colleague who reported your opinions to the boss, or was collecting information for a corporate takeover...

It may not be illegal but it's sure as hell a shitty thing to do. It's immoral, not illegal.

Umm, if the actions I am taking or planning on taking are illegal and you succeed in spying on me and are successful in reporting / stopping me so are the risks of my conspiracy.

[Skyryder]

You've missed the point.

If I owned or managed a company that regularly came under threat of harm to people and property I would do what I could to protect those people and that property. If that meant taking the same steps Solid Energy has I would. If you don't show commitment to your employees your company is in big trouble. It is entirely moral and ethical from the perspective of protecting people's lives.

These protesters are operating under the premise that the paradigm of violent protest is still a viable one in a world that is geared to a swift and brutal response to "terrorism". Let's not return to the days of blowing up elderly cleaners to make a point.

I think Steam has 'hit' the point. The CEO of Solid Energy does not own the company (the State does) so your analogy is irrelevent as is the rest of your post in defending Solid Energy's behavour. It's a fucking sad day that many here applaud the very same tactics that was used in Communist Russia during the cold war:spying on your fellow citizens. Because that J2 is what Solid Engergy did..............and in New Zealand there is simply no excuse for this at all.............period.

It was not so long ago when the HP boys were hiding under bushes, bridges and bill boards with their radar guns. When it comes to 'us' we seem to know what ethics means, but when unethical behavour is directed at those that we disagree with, suddenly we forget the meaning of the word.


Skyyrder

[Big Dog]

The difference being that the frigate was well and truly out of harms way while Greenpeace were dogging the frog navy inside the hot zone

And acting without mandate and contrary to international law.

This is more an indictment on the relevant parties not imposing controls or sanctions against a country that was bombing another just because there was no declaration of war.

Greenpeace is a terrorist organisation the affiliates with other terrorist orgainsations.
They go on about peaceful protest but then proceed to break laws in the pursuit of the agendas of self appointed and self righteous zealots.

An Ex joined greenpeace and soon resigned after she was invited to take part in illegal activities.

[Steam]

Just got home, read the thread through, now to see how many reddies I got...

[Big Dog]

here's some examples of industrial spying:

an Air NZ employee gets paid to fly on competitor airlines to sample/experience their service - feeds back to the Air NZ bosses how to improve.

a bar manager goes out to a competitor bar in the evening to sample/experience service - feeds back to the boss.

a hotelier purchases a night at a competitor to sample the service. modifies their hotel as a result.

they are all forms of spying.

the best comment on here yet is about the solid energy minnow that goes to GP and says 'for $100 i'll tell you what the plans are for machinery security' - would GP refuse? i doubt it.

That is market research. The information is all publicly available.
Espionage implies the information gathered is not public knowledge.

By the above standards would reading a Greenpeace Pamphlet count as espionage?

[Steam]

Hey, I didn't get any red bling for that post, cool! Well done KB for debating with your minds and not just clicking that red button. I'm afraid of red.

[Skyryder]

Just got home, read the thread through, now to see how many reddies I got...

You got a greenie from me. I'm a bit of pinko myself so any reds I get I just take them as confirmation that I've pushed some buttons.

Skyryder

[JimO]

I think Steam has 'hit' the point. The CEO of Solid Energy does not own the company (the State does) so your analogy is irrelevent as is the rest of your post in defending Solid Energy's behavour. It's a fucking sad day that many here applaud the very same tactics that was used in Communist Russia during the cold war:spying on your fellow citizens. Because that J2 is what Solid Engergy did..............and in New Zealand there is simply no excuse for this at all.............period.

It was not so long ago when the HP boys were hiding under bushes, bridges and bill boards with their radar guns. When it comes to 'us' we seem to know what ethics means, but when unethical behavour is directed at those that we disagree with, suddenly we forget the meaning of the word.


Skyyrder

the protesters dont mind bending or breaking the law whats so fucking different in some parts of the world these cnuts would dissapear...bring on the spies i say...fuck the greenies..Nz has enough coal to last us until jesus comes back but fat chance of using it

[Skyryder]

the protesters dont mind bending or breaking the law whats so fucking different in some parts of the world these cnuts would dissapear...bring on the spies i say...fuck the greenies..Nz has enough coal to last us until jesus comes back but fat chance of using it

One of the real problems here JJ is that the Greenies or any other protest movement is an open membership. In other words any member of the public can join. Once a one SOE develops a policy of employing spies to infiltrate these protest movements, splinter groups will go underground to evade detection. They will in other words develop cells and act independently from the main body. Just try thinking up a notch as too the likely outcome of this.

Skyryder

[James Deuce]

I think Steam has 'hit' the point. The CEO of Solid Energy does not own the company (the State does) so your analogy is irrelevent as is the rest of your post in defending Solid Energy's behavour. It's a fucking sad day that many here applaud the very same tactics that was used in Communist Russia during the cold war:spying on your fellow citizens. Because that J2 is what Solid Engergy did..............and in New Zealand there is simply no excuse for this at all.............period.

It was not so long ago when the HP boys were hiding under bushes, bridges and bill boards with their radar guns. When it comes to 'us' we seem to know what ethics means, but when unethical behavour is directed at those that we disagree with, suddenly we forget the meaning of the word.


Skyyrder

So it's OK to cut the brake lines of a 300 tonne coal truck being driven by a bloke trying to make ends meet for his family? Just so we're clear on that.

It's OK to concrete yourself to a railway track and expect a train carrying 1000s of tonnes of coal to stop before it kills protesters, leaving the driver (again, a working Joe) with the stigma and guilt of killing people he bears no malice to, just because the protesters seem to lack a basic understanding of inertia.

If they were my employees I would do what I could to protect them. I fail to understand how anyone can object to CCTV installations on Solid Energy property, and as we have been told over and over, the Police don't have the resources to watch these people who think it is perfectly acceptable to threaten people and property to make a point that has dubious validity.

Solid Energy is like every other SOE in NZ. The CEO is the boss. No one said he owned, but he is responsible for the welfare of his staff and the profitability of the organisation.

If it was your property being threatened and your workmates being threatened, would you just let it lie? I think not.

It's not Soviet behaviour either. The Protestors would be in a Gulag or clearing minefields in Afghanistan with a short stick by now. I think it is a measured response.

[Big Dave]

I quite like Sea Shepherd, who go out sinking illegal whaling boats and play dodgems with the Jap whalers.......

Bring back Flipper!

[Indiana_Jones]

Hey, I didn't get any red bling for that post, cool! Well done KB for debating with your minds and not just clicking that red button. I'm afraid of red.

Well I personally don't give red rep to someone who i don't meet eye-to-eye with, it's just pointless. We'd all have bars of red by now lol

-Indy

[jimbo600]

Dumbass lefty fuckwits. These are the same wankers who think that blue M&Ms contain cobalt so the CIA can track them via satellite. Jeezus what the fuck do they expect. Firms to sit by and let them plot all sorts of wanky direct action. Fuck me I wish the CIA could track lead so they could track a bullet lodged in Valerie Morse's head.

Boo fuckin' hoo SOE's have payed people to fizz on us. They should be happy with the media attention. Arsewipe maggots.

[Skyryder]

So it's OK to cut the brake lines of a 300 tonne coal truck being driven by a bloke trying to make ends meet for his family? Just so we're clear on that.

It's OK to concrete yourself to a railway track and expect a train carrying 1000s of tonnes of coal to stop before it kills protesters, leaving the driver (again, a working Joe) with the stigma and guilt of killing people he bears no malice to, just because the protesters seem to lack a basic understanding of inertia.

If they were my employees I would do what I could to protect them. I fail to understand how anyone can object to CCTV installations on Solid Energy property, and as we have been told over and over, the Police don't have the resources to watch these people who think it is perfectly acceptable to threaten people and property to make a point that has dubious validity.

Solid Energy is like every other SOE in NZ. The CEO is the boss. No one said he owned, but he is responsible for the welfare of his staff and the profitability of the organisation.

If it was your property being threatened and your workmates being threatened, would you just let it lie? I think not.

It's not Soviet behaviour either. The Protestors would be in a Gulag or clearing minefields in Afghanistan with a short stick by now. I think it is a measured response.

Where does my post 'OK' anyone to break the law or put other people at risk?


Skyryder