The perils of training.

[howdamnhard]

Well tonight I was practicing emergency braking and managed to bin the bike.Luckily bike and myself escaped fairly unscathed,I'll know for sure tomorrow morning.Was locking up the rear wheel,tyre compound not the best but should have compensated, so it was suggested I only concentrate on front.Too aggressive,going to fast,too much front brake( same if not more than when using both brakes) and the next I know WAM I'm done and sliding foot stuck under bike with the sound of grating metal in my ears. What I have learnt from this and the other occasion I've lost the front and dropped is this:1 PROGRESSIVE BRAKING IS GOOD.
2 DON'T USE FRONT BRAKE WHILST TURNING.
I 'm to inexperienced/ or slowed up to Detect the front washing out,the sudden change in horizon seems to be my first Que,therefore from now on I shall observe my two above rules with utmost care.

[xwhatsit]

Yeah... using your front brake while turning -- especially at carpark speeds -- can be tricky. I'm pretty n00by with the low speed stuff, so I'm super careful with the front brake and if I'm turning I use the rear brake more than anything else. Just don't lock it. Tricky to emergency brake in a corner anyway.

If you've washed out the front a few times, how's your front tyre? I mean it's perfectly possible (esp. at low speeds) to do that by being hamfisted (hell I have), but still...

[discotex]

Ouch! Sounds like you and the bike survived ok though.

Anyone keen to make copy of Keith Code's panic braking bike? I don't have the welding skills but I'd contribute to the cost of a cheap bike and bits if I get to ride it.

http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...aking-bike.php

I'd be willing to bet that after an hour on that bike I could stop a whole heap quicker and safer - particularly in the wet.

I guess in the meantime I should get my butt to an RRRS course.

[Str8 Jacket]

Well sounds like you did learn something at least! Glad to hear that your OK mate! Keep at it, thngs will suddenly come together and get easier eventually....

[BigRed2007]

Practising is good but dont over do it as well, just understand what you need to go.

If you put yourself into a dangerous position purposely thats even worse man.

One thing i am learning and have been told to do is apply the back brake fractionally faster than the front to ensure you dont fly forward and that the bike doesnt slide. But yeah reduce ur speed before you come into the corner... its better to be slow than sliding...

if your out in west auckland bro send me a pm

[ambler]

Hmm. Practise emergency braking in a straight line only, and work up to the higher speeds gradually. Up to about 15km/h you can probably just jam on both brakes as hard as you like without locking, but not so at 30km/h. It's important to get a feel for when the wheel is about to lock because once it does, suddenly its like the front is on ice - by this I mean it is no longer restricted to travelling forwards, and it is really surprising how quickly it will go sideways on you. One of my scariest moments was when lane-splitting and this old man came walking out from between cars, as soon as the front wheel locked it immediately slid out from under me sideways as if someone was pulling it to the left.
It's possible to front brake heavily while turning, just don't expect to KEEP turning, you will need to give up on the corner and go straight, which is hopefully the lesser of two evils.
Although the weight of the bike shifts forward significantly, don't forget about the back brake! It might not have as much stopping power as the front, but when that time comes you will be glad of any little bit extra, especially if the front does lock for a moment and you need to back off, its good to have the back covering for that brief moment. You don't need to be quite so sensitive with the back brake either, its not quite such a problem if it locks - as long as going reasonably straight, I'd rather have a locked back brake than not use it.
FWIW the hardest part of the bike license test in Japan is the emergency braking, and like everything else they are extremely strict on it. You need to ride at 40km/h or more, and stop within 8 metres (14 when wet) without locking either wheel, on a 750cc bike that you have only ever ridden for a few minutes. This is such a tight requirement that you are allowed to forget everthing else, ie. stalling is ok, and putting your right foot on the ground is also ok (I think). It would probably be good to have something like this as part of the test in NZ too.

[Paul in NZ]

Stress less.... The only people who know where the edge really is are the ones that have gone over it occasionally...

[Crisis management]

Good on you for practicing! There's not many that do, and you certainly learn when you push it......

I'm always a fan of the best tyres I can get, they are the only thing stopping you hugging the ground and well worth the money.
I expect my tyres to slide gradually (under power or brakes) and to be capable enough to hook up again without any violent manouvers, you need feedback to be able to control.
Assuming your not a complete neanderthal and understand the concept of "feeling" the braking effect, you can modulate the braking at the point of lock-up and easily get the most braking effect possible.

Get some decent tyres and get back to practicing, don't worry about bike damage, it adds to street cred!

[Black Bandit]

Yeah... using your front brake while turning

Hmm. Practise emergency braking in a straight line only

Just to clarify, he was referring to separate incidents - hence the two lessons learned. Practicing emergency braking on the lean would be insane.

ambler - that Japanese license test sounds pretty tough.

I guess in the meantime I should get my butt to an RRRS course.

Yes, yes you should - I highly recommend this course, it will enlighten you plus it's hella fun hooning around a runway strip!

[ambler]

yes the JP test is way too hard, it's quite a medal of honor to have the 'big bike' endorsement on your license. Put it this way: even after 4 whole years of riding a 400, approx. 2 hours every day (my 1 hour commute) through rush hour Tokyo traffic, I still failed the test 6 times!! Only about 1 in 40 people manage to pass it the first time...

I forgot to add one of the good points of gradually working up to faster speeds when pracitising, is that you get the hang of braking harder as the speed reduces, so that when you get down to around 15km/h like I mentioned before, you can just clamp right down (depending on what bike of course). If you only practise from higher speeds, you tend to get in the habit of using a fairly similar strength of brake right to the end, when in fact for maximum effect you should be squeezing harder and harder as you slow down.

[90s]

Some general good riding ideas for braking:

1) in corners - countersteer instead of braking. Your bike can probably make the corner. If you believe it. Look through the corner and that's where you'll go. Look down you'll go down.
2) avoid the need to brake in corners - golden rule: slow in fast out*.
3) maybe don't practice braking in corners until you have really got corners and braking in every other condition totally sussed.

* beginners brake in a straight line only and don't nail it on the apex.
Experiened riders do the same.

You could also try the RRRS course for safe emergency braking practice.

[surfchick]

Hmm. Practise emergency braking in a straight line only, and work up to the higher speeds gradually. Up to about 15km/h you can probably just jam on both brakes as hard as you like without locking, but not so at 30km/h. It's important to get a feel for when the wheel is about to lock because once it does, suddenly its like the front is on ice - by this I mean it is no longer restricted to travelling forwards, and it is really surprising how quickly it will go sideways on you. One of my scariest moments was when lane-splitting and this old man came walking out from between cars, as soon as the front wheel locked it immediately slid out from under me sideways as if someone was pulling it to the left.
It's possible to front brake heavily while turning, just don't expect to KEEP turning, you will need to give up on the corner and go straight, which is hopefully the lesser of two evils....

oh yes - locking the front wheel is a sobre experience. Did it on the kawakawa bay run a few weeks back breaking into a perfectly fun corner that i knew well, what I didn't factor in was this light dusting of damp moss / leichin that hadn't dried on the road surface and up locked the front wheel breaking before the corner..started to slide so i let the break go and straightend out in the corner cause by now i was upright just eeked round without binning it over the bank. i can tell you i give oozing watery fern encrusted banks a careful stare-down now to see whether the road surface has been affected by water running out of the dirt and across the road surface... happens heaps on winter...

[Black Bandit]

oh yes - locking the front wheel is a sobre experience. Did it on the kawakawa bay run a few weeks back breaking into a perfectly fun corner that i knew well, what I didn't factor in was this light dusting of damp moss / leichin that hadn't dried on the road surface and up locked the front wheel breaking before the corner..started to slide so i let the break go and straightend out in the corner cause by now i was upright just eeked round without binning it over the bank. i can tell you i give oozing watery fern encrusted banks a careful stare-down now to see whether the road surface has been affected by water running out of the dirt and across the road surface... happens heaps on winter...

Been up Scenic Dr recently? It's a shocker for moss at the moment! Thought I'd go for a quick blat last weekend ... turned out not to be so quick as I woosed out at the sight of green roads.

[Little Miss Trouble]

yup sounds like we both got off pretty lightly there. Mine happened when I ran wide taking a corner while learning counter-steering, saw the concrete island coming up fast, grabbed too much brake and it was all over!
On the plus side I think I've gotten alot better at countersteering since wednesday night, its easier to understand once you put it in a 'real' situation.

[Pwalo]

Just put it down to experience. The only way you'll get better is by riding (oh and thinking about riding, and then riding again).

Like everything when you start off it's all too easy to get sensory overload, so work up to things gradually. It's all too easy to cock things up if you're trying too hard (eg your counter steering). Just concentrate on one thing at a time and build up your skill level.

You can use your front brake in a turn, but it's only something you can do if you're very familar with your bike and the road you're on.

And finally don't practice your emergency braking on the road for the first few times. An empty parking area is a lot easier.