Fair call for a barrier but cheese grater?

[Drum]

And the cost of a concrete barrier versus a wire rope barrier? It's about 5 fold.

Transit will happily install concrete barriers everywhere if you want to pay for them.

[James Deuce]

We already do pay for them. Conservative estimates of funding collected for the purpose of general roading are well within the requirements of developing a modern roading system in NZ, including transmission Gully and the Eastern Corridor in Auckland.

Except it doesn't go to roading, does it? It goes to Social Welfare.

There's always a justification for killing motorcyclists, and it usually comes down to cost. Just because it hasn't happened here (not that we'd know, because I doubt a crash investigation for a motorcycle "accident" that involved a fatality and a wire rope barrier would involve any other conclusion than, "Speed may have been a factor") doesn't mean someone we know won't get ripped to bits by a wire barrier or hit by a vehicle vaulting over an improperly installed one.

[Pancakes]

Lets play a game; (all bullshit figures but you get the idea).

I'm the LTSA, we need to stop things crossing the centreline, 98% of traffic is saloons and stationwagons 1200-1600kg's. Good, thats the ones we need to stop. We have a million $'s and need to cover 100,000km's. Concrete barriers cost $20/m, all the money gets used up and we only cover 50,000km's. If the parts we don't do have a fatal head-on on them we come under fire. Wire barriers are $5/m, we get a bonus for coming in underbudget.

See, easy desicion really,

Where are bikes? In the 2% "other" section on the stats. Ride safe and stay off the radar, while we are a minority we aren't worth the effort to legislate against either.

[clint640]

I can see the argument for putting these things down the centre of some roads, though it is a cheap solution that I don't like at all...

But WTF is with these wire barriers springing up on the outside of corners & suchlike all over the lower Sth Is? Again, if it's a huge sheer drop we're being protected from I can see the (cheap & dangerous) logic but lots of them are only stopping you from rolling down a scrubby bank. If I owned property next to a major road & put up a structure like that right on the edge I bet there'd be a demand for it's removal & a threat of a huge fine within hours.

Cheers
Clint

[swbarnett]

(OK, so sometimes an innocent person get 'bit' at times - but that's life)

So what you're saying is that we should all toughen up and look after ourselves?
What's the difference between wire barriers and speeding? Ticketing speeding gives the Government revenue and installing rope barriers saves them money. It's all about money in the end.

[swbarnett]

At least two European countries have banned wire-rope barriers and Belgium has committed to removing a certain length every year (got the exact details at home somewhere).

You probably know already about the biker that was decapitated by wire-rope barriers north of Sydney after running over a ladder that fell of the top of a ute.

The problem that I have with wire rope barriers is that they are installed with disregard of the manufacturers instructions that state they should be installed 6m from the edge of the traffic flow. On SH1 around Rangariri (north of Huntly) they are just thrown on the white line dividing two opposing lanes.

I also don't like the idea of any barrier that creates a narrow corridor. In the same area mentioned above there are barriers either side of the lane meaning there is nowhere to go if you need to escape (maybe you blow a tyre with a truck tailgating...).

[scumdog]

I also don't like the idea of any barrier that creates a narrow corridor. In the same area mentioned above there are barriers either side of the lane meaning there is nowhere to go if you need to escape (maybe you blow a tyre with a truck tailgating...).

So instead you like the chance of running across into the opposing traffic?
You're a better rider than me sunshine if you can react and ride quick enough to cope with a blow-out while being tailgated.

[swbarnett]

So instead you like the chance of running across into the opposing traffic?

I don't mind the central barrier as long as there's space for it, it's the one on the left I don't like.

You're a better rider than me sunshine if you can react and ride quick enough to cope with a blow-out while being tailgated.

Fair call, a "blow-out" would be way too fast. If you get a puncture though I'd at least like room to pull left and get out of the way.

[Reckless]

So you would rather crash into a wooden and metal 'w-section' barrier? Or perhaps a concrete barrier is more to your liking?

The point is that the wire rope barrier is preferable to having a head on with a car. Like Riffer says, there is no history (in this country at least) of bikers hitting these barriers.

Remember that biker (RIP) killed just north of the Silverstream turnoff last year? I wonder what he would think about the merits of the wire rope barrier?

There is no history of bikers gettin killed by these because they immediatly scare the shit out of us and we become very wary. The one outa Huntly is very close to you and looks like it will do serious serious damage. If they put one down that motorway bypass in Upper Hutt you will be travelliing nicely and quietly behind the car in front thats for sure. I think its the fear factor that makes them work even for cages.

We already do pay for them. Conservative estimates of funding collected for the purpose of general roading are well within the requirements of developing a modern roading system in NZ, including transmission Gully and the Eastern Corridor in Auckland.

Except it doesn't go to roading, does it? It goes to Social Welfare.

There's always a justification for killing motorcyclists, and it usually comes down to cost. Just because it hasn't happened here (not that we'd know, because I doubt a crash investigation for a motorcycle "accident" that involved a fatality and a wire rope barrier would involve any other conclusion than, "Speed may have been a factor") doesn't mean someone we know won't get ripped to bits by a wire barrier or hit by a vehicle vaulting over an improperly installed one.

Point one Jim Agreed. Even the AA has been saying that for years now. Auckland and Wellington are gonna have to pay extra on their petrol for those projects that should been done years ago when the costs where 1/2 what they are now.
Point 2: Don't the LTSA have some formula that is "lives vs dollars". They don't spend money on roading black spots until it starts to cost more in medical/lives than fixing the road. Great way to decide which roads have to be fixed. Although that road along Parparumu instead of Transmission gully is costing lives although not enough as it still doesn'y qualify.

[sAsLEX]

I don't mind the central barrier as long as there's space for it, it's the one on the left I don't like.

And as pointed out above often the one on the left is to protect the grass on the side from people praking there. It removes the ability for people to stop in an emergency/engine trouble and cuts off an escape route. Silly. I mean most roads ie 98% of them in NZ have no barrier on the left but for some reason when they place a barrier in the centre to stop head-ons they feel inclined to add one on the left as well!?

[peasea]

And as pointed out above often the one on the left is to protect the grass on the side from people praking there. It removes the ability for people to stop in an emergency/engine trouble and cuts off an escape route. Silly. I mean most roads ie 98% of them in NZ have no barrier on the left but for some reason when they place a barrier in the centre to stop head-ons they feel inclined to add one on the left as well!?

I was discussing this with a bloke from Works the other day; it's a spacial, psychological thing and it was an interesting conversation. If people 'think' they have less room, they tend to slow down. He mentioned the concrete barriers that are put into place on motorways when road works are going on and they have those boards tacked on top. It's not so much for the rubber-neckers (although it reduces that too) it's to create the illusion of having less space; a kind of 'tunnelling' or 'funnelling' effect. People get off the gas even though the actual amount of road they have hasn't changed.

Put a wire barrier in the centre, people keep motoring along, put a second one on the left, people instinctively slow down. Weird but true.

[Reckless]

I can see the logic in that peasea. But for me its thinking some cager is gonna do something stupid when I'm nipping past him and I'm gonna get my head caught in those criss crossing wires, while the other parts of me are wrapped around those posts. They give me the shits quite frankly. I suppose if they read this they'll put more up now!!

[swbarnett]

If people 'think' they have less room, they tend to slow down.

Great! Yet more perceived safety at the cost of actual safety!

[scumdog]

I was discussing this with a bloke from Works the other day; it's a spacial, psychological thing and it was an interesting conversation. If people 'think' they have less room, they tend to slow down. He mentioned the concrete barriers that are put into place on motorways when road works are going on and they have those boards tacked on top. It's not so much for the rubber-neckers (although it reduces that too) it's to create the illusion of having less space; a kind of 'tunnelling' or 'funnelling' effect. People get off the gas even though the actual amount of road they have hasn't changed.

Put a wire barrier in the centre, people keep motoring along, put a second one on the left, people instinctively slow down. Weird but true.

True dat.

Hence why people do 85kph on the open road - then do 115kph when they get to passing lanes.

Wider road - perceived to be safer ergo 'lets speed up'

[Hitcher]

Hence why people do 85kph on the open road - then do 115kph when they get to passing lanes.

Death to them. And may they burn for all eternity in a very hot fiery pit.