Standard cams for all bikes: NZSBK

**cowpoos** · 28th April 2009, 20:28

Originally Posted by White trash

I have sent an email expressing my concerns and asking for a couple of explanations and clarifications to the powers that be.

I'll be interested to see if we actually get a reply.

look...I'll have a chat to Guedo this weekend...he'll get straight on the blower with the powers that be and sort them out!!!

**slowpoke** · 29th April 2009, 02:29

Originally Posted by JayRacer37

There actually really, REALLY not Frosty. Its amazing how far off 'right' most parts are in a current Jap motor.

Haha, having owned and researched a Ducati I can tell you the cam timing for a start is the stuff of legend, with huge variations from new. One of the leading Ducati worshops in the UK (Sigma of slipper clutch fame) described a 749RS (race version) as "only being assembled to facilitate ease of transport" as the thing required a complete strip down and set up before going anywhere near a track.

Gearboxes are nowhere near, and you are very lucky indeed to get a bike where all the parts work together to make the best power possible. This rule in the end is going to make very, very little difference. I havn't got a superbike not becuase I don't want to buy cams, but because I don't want to halve my track time over winter, or pay the extra money for slicks. I see what MNZ is trying to do, but I don't agree that this is the right way to do it. Cams are not the major, or even really significant cost of building a motor.

And there it is in a nutshell.

New bikes, suspension, exhausts, tyres yada yada all this stuff costs money whereas a major boost to Superbike grids could happen without costing anyone a single cent. Simply allow Superbikes/F1 equal track time.

**wharfy** · 29th April 2009, 04:02

Originally Posted by slowpoke

And there it is in a nutshell.

New bikes, suspension, exhausts, tyres yada yada all this stuff costs money whereas a major boost to Superbike grids could happen without costing anyone a single cent. Simply allow Superbikes/F1 equal track time.

That may be the reason Jay doesn't race a superbike, but it is not the reason I don't. (I'm to scared basically)

If only it were that simple......

**slowpoke** · 29th April 2009, 05:18

Originally Posted by wharfy

That may be the reason Jay doesn't race a superbike, but it is not the reason I don't. (I'm to scared basically)

If only it were that simple......

Fair enough Warfy, I'm not saying everyone wants to ride a Superbike. But it really is pretty simple, people want the best value for their racing dollar.

If offered a choice between Carey Brier's ex-Bernard R1 and Jay's R6 (both elite level bikes)which were/are both on Trademe for $22k I can guarantee most experienced racers would choose the R6 rather than the R1 simply because you'd get twice as much racing on the R6. The R1 would actually be a cheaper proposal over a season because of the limited track time. Cost is only part of the solution.

**Shaun** · 29th April 2009, 10:56

Originally Posted by slowpoke

Fair enough Warfy, I'm not saying everyone wants to ride a Superbike. But it really is pretty simple, people want the best value for their racing dollar.

If offered a choice between Carey Brier's ex-Bernard R1 and Jay's R6 (both elite level bikes)which were/are both on Trademe for $22k I can guarantee most experienced racers would choose the R6 rather than the R1 simply because you'd get twice as much racing on the R6. The R1 would actually be a cheaper proposal over a season because of the limited track time. Cost is only part of the solution.

Your thoughts here are only relivent to the CLUB series dude, NOT the nationals

**codgyoleracer** · 29th April 2009, 11:57

Originally Posted by slowpoke

Fair enough Warfy, I'm not saying everyone wants to ride a Superbike. But it really is pretty simple, people want the best value for their racing dollar.

If offered a choice between Carey Brier's ex-Bernard R1 and Jay's R6 (both elite level bikes)which were/are both on Trademe for $22k I can guarantee most experienced racers would choose the R6 rather than the R1 simply because you'd get twice as much racing on the R6. The R1 would actually be a cheaper proposal over a season because of the limited track time. Cost is only part of the solution.

Hmmm, id take the R1 me thinks spuddly......
I suppose it depends on where you set your goals really (if its simply track time at club racing level) then sure it might be a valid arguemnt - but the smile / fear factor of a well sorted superbike makes up for a hell of a lot and is a true test of skills.
Superbike in reality has bever been traditionally nor is ever likely to be "the biggest class" numbers wise in NZ, - it IS however the premier class.
To be blunt - riding a superbike at anywhere near to its limits - I would be quite happy to do one class a day........ - but maybe this is because i am tired and old :-). The sheer amount of track days & test days available to us all - still give plenty of saddle time on your toy if thats your desire.
I hear what you are saying spuddly - & youve got a cool bike there to do some skids on, but i am not sure that the amount of races that one is able to fit into a day is the reason for the small fields.
I wonder what is ...............Hmmm
Glen

**Tony.OK** · 29th April 2009, 12:16

Originally Posted by codgyoleracer

Hmmm, id take the R1 me thinks spuddly......
I suppose it depends on where you set your goals really (if its simply track time at club racing level) then sure it might be a valid arguemnt - but the smile / fear factor of a well sorted superbike makes up for a hell of a lot and is a true test of skills.
Superbike in reality has bever been traditionally nor is ever likely to be "the biggest class" numbers wise in NZ, - it IS however the premier class.
To be blunt - riding a superbike at anywhere near to its limits - I would be quite happy to do one class a day........ - but maybe this is because i am tired and old :-). The sheer amount of track days & test days available to us all - still give plenty of saddle time on your toy if thats your desire.
I hear what you are saying spuddly - & youve got a cool bike there to do some skids on, but i am not sure that the amount of races that one as able to fit into a day is the reason for the small fields.
I wonder what is ...............Hmmm
Glen

Interesting.............could it be as simple as just the initial outlay of buying a bigger bike? Running costs would hardly be any different, less so if you are in F2 and F1.
I was happy at the end of last winters Vic rounds that they made the races longer with only 2 races, still went home knackered doin F1 on its own.
The main advantage I see from x-entering is experience gained by simply doin more laps at race pace..........................and importantly race fitness. Going from a 6 lap season to 20 lap Nats for me would've been hard............I am a lazy buggar after all

**White trash** · 29th April 2009, 12:19

Originally Posted by codgyoleracer

I wonder what is ...............Hmmm
Glen

I wonder if it has anything to do with the powers that be chargiong ahead with knee jerk rule changes, effectively discounting a huge number of used bikes already built and making them obsolete.....

**FROSTY:Me** · 29th April 2009, 13:06

Originally Posted by JayRacer37

There actually really, REALLY not Frosty. Its amazing how far off 'right' most parts are in a current Jap motor. Gearboxes are nowhere near, and you are very lucky indeed to get a bike where all the parts work together to make the best power possible. This rule in the end is going to make very, very little difference. I havn't got a superbike not becuase I don't want to buy cams, but because I don't want to halve my track time over winter, or pay the extra money for slicks. I see what MNZ is trying to do, but I don't agree that this is the right way to do it. Cams are not the major, or even really significant cost of building a motor.

Ill stand corrected ol son.
My memory is of doing the whole rod/piston weighing thing for a K1 gixxer thou. So darn close it was almost a waste of effort.
In your opinion then could a racer not buy say a gixxer thou.Go run it in then race it for a season ? -Talking specifically about the engine/gearbox here

**JayRacer37** · 29th April 2009, 14:51

Originally Posted by FROSTY

Ill stand corrected ol son.
My memory is of doing the whole rod/piston weighing thing for a K1 gixxer thou. So darn close it was almost a waste of effort.
In your opinion then could a racer not buy say a gixxer thou.Go run it in then race it for a season ? -Talking specifically about the engine/gearbox here

Hmm. You probably could, but personally I wouldn't risk it. You certainly couldn't do two full seasons on a 600 or Superbike. Engines need a valve/top end refresh after 750 race Km's or so for us. We do a full top end strip and freshen up mid season. Also, you don't because you pull it apart to balance and check everything - in a top class Racebike (even NZ) you do check things like that before you race it, because if you don't and something is wrong...
Gearboxes are a major - they are usually terriblly made and tolerances are loose enough from factory that it seems they are up to 2mm out at times. This means that in the last 3 gearboxes on racebikes I have had, from stock, every one has only had one dog of the three or four dogs on each gear contacting where they should.

The other thing is cams arn't a major. We spend well over 6g just on the motor and gearbox prep for a 600, and the work would be well over that for a superbike. Buying a set of cams on top of that just isn't a major.
Also, if you can't just go and buy a well made, good cam, you are probably going to get tuners who will buy a whole bunch of cams to get the ones he wants (blueprinting). Cos when your at the front, every HP can count.

**Drew** · 29th April 2009, 20:54

Just seen this thread...

FFFFAAAARRRRRKKKKKKIIIIINNNNN CUUUUUUNNNNNTTTTSSSS!!!

I'm fucked, bought the closest thing to a competetive bike available, and now this shit.

Fuck MNZ, it AINT gonna bring more people to the sport, and it only sems to be the nationals running short of numbers anyway. Vic club get so many fuckin riders it's not funny.

To whatever fuckin brain surgeon thought this dumb idea up, EAT SHIT AND DIE!

**gixerracer** · 29th April 2009, 20:55

Originally Posted by White trash

I wonder if it has anything to do with the powers that be chargiong ahead with knee jerk rule changes, effectively discounting a huge number of used bikes already built and making them obsolete.....

For god sake jimmy change the record, I see how you got to be team manager You moan and cry as much as Eddy and thats alot

. The rules are the rules Im sure they got the standard cams with there bikes if they explain to Suzuki NZ whats going on Big Tom would proberly give them new standard pistons. Just harden the -uck up and get on with it

**brads** · 29th April 2009, 20:58

Originally Posted by FROSTY

Ill stand corrected ol son.
My memory is of doing the whole rod/piston weighing thing for a K1 gixxer thou. So darn close it was almost a waste of effort.
In your opinion then could a racer not buy say a gixxer thou.Go run it in then race it for a season ? -Talking specifically about the engine/gearbox here

My opinion,yes you can,how do I know? cause thats what I did and am keeping it the same for this year.
This is on a 08 CBR1000RR,it has never had the head off,gearbox checked,pc,slip on,ecu and ohlins front and back are the only changes we have made.
Then again you cant compare the build quailty of a HONDA to a Suzook!