Porkgate

[Quasievil]

Part of the way I feel about these things is because I used to work as an engineer in the smallgoods petfood and 'protein' industry. - It would turn your stomach to see what goes into anything other than butchers cuts. Petfood- even worse.
I know all the tricks they use to get every last cent out of an animal.

But the issue is how they are treated while they are in our care -that the law says that you can legally torture one spieces
but not the other-it is pure hypocricy

so youre Kind like the Adolf Eichmann of the extermination of animals ?

[doc]

In either case I hope they find their free-range, organic, non-GM, fair trade, lebian-whale-free, unionised-labour produced tofu burger delicious.

Yeah...and we want land rights for gay whales!!

[Kickaha]

lebian-whale-free

Lebian?...can someone help Hitcher out with the correct spelling on that one

[ynot slow]

Re canabilism,if you have ever seen a wild boar gut a new born lamb and eat it,pretty gruesome.Yep the land was typical hill country with minimal fencing etc,and backed onto the Wanganui river after a 3 hour hike.

The fact that most people wouldn't/couldn't afford free range or organic meat and eggs or vegetables is true,might also result in less carcenogenic food in the human chain.In a real world situation that would be bliss.

My father raises about 2 or 3 piglets around spring time,they use up the leftover colostrum from calf raising,they stay in sheds with outside runs.No worries there,but one year they got piglets from one litter,then decided to grab another 3 for (xmas presents for us kids)from another litter.Kept them next to each other,but the little buggers didn't like each other.

They had a partition between them of plywood,one day the wood was knocked over,luckily I was cleaning the calf shed next to them,bad move #1 was forgetting the shed had a lower roof and whacking head on beam,OUCH,bad move#2 was getting into the older groups' pen to refix plywood,getting bitten on the leg aint nice,even through the red bands,jumped the rail and fixed from younger groups pen.Amazing the difference in attitudes 4 weeks made on pigs.And watching them feed is survival of fittest almost,luckily the food was plentiful at meal time.

[scumdog]

You hard assed meat eating wankers out there will say toughen up and pull your pansy head in.
cos you are a tough meat eating kiwi male.


But what if you treated a dog or a horse or a cat or even a goat this way?

You would be arrested and the public would be horrified that you could do such a thing!

I know more than few people I'd be happy to see 'live' in one of those pens...

[scumdog]

, lebian-whale-free,

Does that mean all Lebanese whales are banned??

[Maha]

Is it conceivable that Mike King did not know anything about the caged pigs? After seven years of fronting the adds for NZ Pork, seems a little odd that he has just found out about it via a friend sending him a short vid from SAFE?

Is it possible that SAFE may have notified King (in some way) at an earlier stage about what he was selling?

[James Deuce]

Does that mean all Lebanese whales are banned??

They could be plebian with a silent "p".

[Hitcher]

They could be plebian with a silent "p".

There's a silent P in swimming...

[xwhatsit]

Is it conceivable that Mike King did not know anything about the caged pigs? After seven years of fronting the adds for NZ Pork

Yes, that's what strikes me as shit -- if you're going to endorse something, at the very least try and understand the product you're going to put your name behind. Shampoo ads, investment companies, air conditioners... do any of these people actually believe in what their doing or is it just for the money?

Current affairs shows are about as untrustworthy as media gets. But even still, it certainly puts a city-dweller like me in touch with what goes on. One sort of imagines pigs roaming free under the sky... Farmer Jimmy walks out of his thatched cottage and cranks the Massey Ferguson TR231 over... waves to Bessie the cow as he trundles out into the field...

Bacon's the shit though And there's no way in hell you're going to get me to give up my black pudding.

[Phurrball]

I knew this thread would arrive, and I knew that it would go like this (on KB at least.)

I resisted starting it myself, so thanks Mr Weta for taking the heat. Folks round here don't like it when people hold differing opinions. Pluralism and educated debate on a topic like this on KB - Tui ad material.

It's pretty easy to take the piss about "land rights for gay lesbian whales" and mock the hippies rather than face some of the more egregious practices that bring us "affordable" meat and allow the "cornerstone of our economy" to remain profitable. I'm disappointed, but not surprised by the same old clichés and arguments that comprise most of this thread.

Before you all start cracking lentil jokes- a backgrounder on me:
Vegetarian since I was old enough to think critically about eating meat (10 1/2 years old).

Leather wearing. Have shot possums and rabbits.

Partner and family all eat meat.

I've studied NZ's first 'Animals and the law' paper as part of my law degree. So I know more about the NZ law regarding animals than most.
[FYI the paper dealt with the law as it is and perhaps ought to be regarding animals from ALL perspectives. They don't do hippie propaganda at one of NZ's better law schools.]

As an added bonus I can tell you about food borne illness and meat too, since I have a microbiology degree [where I genetically modified bacteria routinely, and where animal models were the norm in immunology papers - not so hippy now eh?]

So - like all people, it's all shades of grey and a certain level of hypocrisy here. I can back up arguments up though, and I've heard every mocking comment ever devised to deride vegetarians too - so bring it!

I am impressed by how well SAFE have handled the media. A really slick and professional job on their part. Top flight PR assistance? I doubt it on their budget (Although their job almost does itself with some of the images they bring to light)

Does it have to be like this so you can all have your bacon? The likes of Havoc farms would disagree I think. Even the Pork industry spokesman has agreed this is a bad look, and that its members are moving away from the use of crates to a greater or lesser extent. (less than 50% or some such in crates.)

(Oh, while we're at it, let's feed factory farm pigs and chickens glycopeptide antibiotics as 'growth promotors', 'cos selectively breeding glycopeptide resistant Enterococci bacteria is such a good idea!)

You can here more of the stats etc by right-click saving (or steaming) this link to 8.5MB mp3 interview from Radio NZ National this morning. You may have heard it, but if I was stereotyping, I'd say all 'real-men meat-eating biker' types would be listening to the Rock or other such syndicated commercial crap

What is most disturbing (and what SAFE keep pointing out) is that pigs (and chickens) are specific exceptions to the welfare standards that are applied to every other animal in NZ law.

Don't believe me? Here it is in NZ statute

Have a look at the way the act says we should treat animals (up to s14 or so). All of that does not apply to pigs. A lesser standard is applied. What you all saw on TV was perfectly legal. Schedule 4 tells us the exceptions to the act.

There is no rational justification for this at all. Lets just say that powerful industry interests have a rather disporoprtionate say at NAWAC.

As for the farmers - yes, they can deny entry to anyone. But really, what have they got to hide? If it's just fine to treat pigs like that, explain to people as you take them through WHY it has to be that way. People aren't stupid, they'll make up their own minds. I think many people are too blissfully ignorant as to how meat ends up on their plate.

'Fast food nation' By Eric Schlosser is a good read on the evils of factory meat production.

If you're feeling academic, browse Animal Law in Australasia By Peter Sankoff (My lecturer)

[Forest]

The Close Up story could hardly be described as balanced.

Many commercial pig farmers in New Zealand use farrowing stalls. Pigs are carnivorous cannibals. The frames are designed to stop sows either rolling on top of and crushing their young or eating them. The cages minimise piglet death and enhance their wellbeing. In many cases the sow only stays in the cage until the piglets are weaned.

As for the squealing, anybody who has ever been into a commercial piggery generally knows that pigs often associate the presence of humans with food. Once one starts squealing, they all start. It's deafening and only stops once the last pig starts eating.

Chewing at the bars demonstrating psychological trauma or distress? Pigs are inveterate gnawrers. The will chew at most things they encounter. Chewing causes salivation (foaming). If you think that's bad you should see the extent of foam at mating time.

That said, there are some commercial pig farmers whose animal husbandry practices leave much to be desired. That does not unilaterally make farrowing stalls a bad thing.

SAFE is run by political vegans. Any of their claims need to be taken with several grains of salt as their aim is to sensationalise.

As for current affairs programmes, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIUOD...eature=related

Whoops! I accidentally gave you a red rep for your post.

Which is a pity because I completely agreed with what you wrote.

Sorry about that!

[scracha]

f you raise and butcher your own animals, tend your own chickens, grow your own veges good on you. You've got vastly more disposable income (cash and time) than I do. But I don't have to live like that and none of us deserve the abuse being hurled.

I beg to differ. If after being informed of their living conditions you're happy to help fund the way these animals are "grown" then you deserve every bit of abuse being hurled at you. There is a good bit of middle ground between cheap "battery raised" and very expensive "free range". The gubbernment needs to get involved to have minimum standards for animal welfare, and this must also apply to imported meat.

Keeping a couple of pigs...yeah, a whole 10 minutes a day. Chickens need next to no time nor investment. If you've got a patch of grass then sheep or goats are almost zero work. Most kiwis spend more time wasting petrol mowing their lawn than it takes to keep an animal (fuck my neighbours...if my grass annoys them so much they can cut it themselves). Animal welfare aside, when I eat meat I don't particularly want to absorb the chemicals that they pump into animals these days. Have you seen the price of that watery $hite they call meat at the supermarket these days? I don't think the cost argument is as clear-cut as the battery farmers would have you believe.

Hitcher, sows generally only roll over or eat their piglets when they're under-fed and kept in space constrained un-natural conditions.

[CookMySock]

If after being informed of their living conditions you're happy to help fund the way these animals are "grown" then you deserve every bit of abuse being hurled at you.

If you take license to "hurl abuse" at fellow society on that basis, then you are very little different from the animals in question.

Take a look around yourself, and step outside of your own opinion. We are all people with feelings and families, just like you, so slow down a bit and take a look at the bigger picture.

Steve

[SixPackBack]

PR or not I will be changing my eating habits as I suspect will a lot of NZers. If it costs me a little extra to source meat from free range sources where animals have lead a happy life with a modicum of respect then so be it.

Two points I have picked up on:

• The animal is being grown for slaughter so it does not matter how it is treated-false logic I believe, everyone of my dogs has been put down [for whatever reason].
• Pigs are vicious cannibals and as such need to be locked up- I draw your attention to human beings, the most vicious and destructive of all animals [and cannibals given half a chance].

Meat is murder.