Staying alive on the road.

[MSTRS:Me]

The odd bin ?

Google is your friend.
I think he meant that some bikes are dogs...

[sinfull]

Google is your friend.
I think he meant that some bikes are dogs...
>

Yeah i know lol Was taking the piss 98 have complete faith in his riding ability !

[FROSTY:Me]

Mike
Heres the thing I've found over the years.If I try to introduce too much information to a trainee they get confused.
What you are saying about right wheel track I as an experienced rider totally agree with. BUT MOST of the time its the right place to be.
So by applying the KISS (keep it simple stupid) theory it gives newer riders the greatest chance of survival.
Simple clearcut rules that work.
Things do change once a rider has some experience under their belt.

What I love is when a rider whose just got a bit of experience comes to me and says --Hey Frosty ya know you told me to -(for example) ride in the right wheel track.On a ride yesterday I watched The Stranger (a pretty experienced rider) and he was all over our side of the road -left n right --whys he doin that??
It means to me the rider has moved beyond the basic mechanical skill of how to operate a clutch n brakes n gears and can start concidering variables.

BY the way --knowing when to start telling them more info YEA RIGHT wish I knew that one but I prefer to err on the side of caution

[98tls]

The odd bin ?

As in binned it,dropped it,bent it.

[duckonin]

Yep Frosty, you have it sussed, hard to take some knowledge further with advice...Had a young fella helping out on the farm once, asked him to open the gate and stand back a few feet to let the deer through, should of said 100 metre's as I watched him count off a few feet....had to laugh at that..

So yes some do take advice literally...Have had a few say to me over the years "U seem to be all over the road"...Yep I would say, for if I had seen a car coming out of a side road on my left whilst following a vehicle then I would move hard to the left to try and make sure the driver seen me too..and as most would know so on and so on...Be on the road where you can "see and be seen"

The want to survive helps the younger ones out, a lot will read what they want to know, not many ask Questions, so it is important that any advice given or written is correct..

Good posting

[16silver]

You don't own the road by riding in the right wheel track, you become enslaved.
(I assumed Frosty meant single carriageway? A single lane, two way? right wheel track, maybe not!)



What does own the road mean anyway? I don't think that playing follow my leader is going to make anyone think you own the road, even if you want them to. Someone driving behind might dismiss you and begin to focus on the vehicle in front of you, they might be frustrated that you are obscuring their view of the oncoming traffic, and so on. What you do want is to show confidence, awareness and control. You do this by using the appropriate speed, signals, body and bike position - for the situation. You may right the right wheel track, or right up to the crown, or over at the shoulder. You want other road users to be aware of you, to respect you and to avoid hitting you. You want them to know that you know they are there, and to show that you know what they are going to do (or not do) before they do it.

And,

I prefer this :
Ride your bike as if YOU ARE INVISIBLE
Neither are true but the second is closer to the truth, and, it helps with the following...



If you ride as if you are invisible the adrenaline and focus is up, just like it might be if you think everyone is out to get you. It's important though to take away the personal aspect and prevent yourself from going into battle, taking revenge, showing who's boss.

Therefore I can agree with the rest, of course :-)

this isn't a battle of who can give the best advice, it was simply some helpful advice, although you have your own views and the right to criticize you shouldn't be flaming him for some helpful advice

[bikemike]

Hey, I'm not flaming. I'm well aware Frosty is a popular and passionate supporter of riding safely.

But this is a forum. A forum is a place to discuss different point of view as well as share knowledge.

This is what we are doing. I'm sure Frosty isn't offended.

[16silver]

Hey, I'm not flaming. I'm well aware Frosty is a popular and passionate supporter of riding safely.

But this is a forum. A forum is a place to discuss different point of view as well as share knowledge.

This is what we are doing. I'm sure Frosty isn't offended.

ok, jut looked a bit agressive that all :P

[bikemike]

I've taught two people to ride from scratch, and turned another around from a careless and naive commuter into a very good exponent and enthusiast for riding safely.

One of my charges was my, now, wife.

The two I taught have ridden without mishap.

My data may be skewed as they are all graduates, and over 30. Perhaps younger minds need more rules, but those I spend time with need to know the realities so that they can apply themselves.
I remember myself holding in contempt those that taught me physics at school; giving forth on a first level theory and then when asking about where I thought the theory broke down, being told I'd find that out at college. Then at college, the new theory broke down and I was told I'd find out more at university. I wish they had told me the realities, and explained why the basic theory was worth knowing. Then I could use that model appropriately, looking out for anomalies and coming to understand things rather than coming to find things were false.

I feel very strongly that there is no need to tell new riders that everyone is out to kill them, or to ride as if they are.

I wouldn't underestimate new riders, but I would take the simplistic approach if it's clear the principle is not understood and coax them up gently. I've not found it necessary.
Edit - and any aggression was inferred only, not meant or implied.

[Katman]

"The Bikers Bible" by Graham Allardice

excert: pg 65

Avoiding Crashes.

If you're involved in a crash the chances are that in almost all cases it will be your fault.
The reason why I say this is that probably you'll have been guilty of:

Ignorance
Lack of skill
Lack of observation
Lack of anticipation
Failure to maintan your safety zone
Failure to identify an escape route
Failure to maintain your bike properly

If you accept that observation, you're more likely to take whatever measures are required to avoid crashes.

Now imagine the outrage if I'd said that.

[samgab]

Now imagine the outrage if I'd said that.

You should write a book and get the respect you deserve
No, but you, and Frosty, and several of the others are right; if I have a collision or fall off, I'VE done something wrong more likely than not.

Frosty's advice of riding in the position on the road that most drivers would be sitting in, in their car, seems good for most commuting. It's also what the guy who assessed my restricted licence test advised me to do.

Frosty, I have my Full test in less than two weeks: are you planning to come to this week's Wed NASS? I wouldn't mind someone experienced following me on the ride and being extra (constructively-) critical...

[FROSTY:Me]

sorry sam I've been down with the bot. Huddled in a warm office all week.

[samgab]

sorry sam I've been down with the bot. Huddled in a warm office all week.

Sorry to hear that mate. Hope ya feel better soon.

[carver]

we own the road....

[madbikeboy]

I feel very strongly that there is no need to tell new riders that everyone is out to kill them, or to ride as if they are.

I read your post(s) and wondered if your mommy breastfed you too long.

It seems to me, that having the mindset of being proactively engaged in looking for danger is the key. The young riders, newbies, or even born agains need to understand that they are in danger, this age old advice of "watch out, they're out to kill you" sounds extreme, but it's not. Unintentional, stupid, intentional - whatever, people have tried in many creative ways to bump me and Scoot off the face of the planet.

Newbies, I'd be disregarding any advice that doesn't come from the more experienced riders on this site. KatMan, Frosty, or most all of the riders with a green ME beside their name denoting mentors - all good places for advice.

One other piece of advice from me - always have an escape plan - if he does this, I will do that. If you ever find yourself whistling and thinking of what's for dinner when you get home, you're not well enough engaged mentally, and something will bite you.

MBB