Removing wing mirrors...

[tigertim20]

And how exactly is smashing off someone's wing mirror going to reduce the number of irate drivers?

acts of anger (such as smashing mirrors) is not about reducing the number of irate drivers on the road, its about making drivers more aware in the first place.

It requires nothing more than an outstretched upturned hand in a "What the fuck?" manner or pointing to your eyes indicating that they should use theirs.

Anything more is just perpetuating the Neanderthal Biker image that is doing us nothing but harm.

um, ok, so a car sees you (or doesnt) and doesnt give a fuck, cuts you off, and nearly (or doeas) cause you a serious injury. if we assume that he didnt see you in the first place, he isnt going to see you after, and and thus isnt going to see your finger gestures anyway. If he did see you and did it anyway, he clearly doesnt give a flying fuck eother way anyway, so again a little hand gesture will do nothing.

I am not condoning smashing mirrors, but I AM saying that when a person suffers a consequence like damage to their car, they are more likely to consider what actions of theirs contributed to the incident in the first place, certainly more so than when a rider who they dont see anyway makes some silly hand gestures.

[cs363]

I am not condoning smashing mirrors, but I AM saying that when a person suffers a consequence like damage to their car, they are more likely to consider what actions of theirs contributed to the incident in the first place, certainly more so than when a rider who they dont see anyway makes some silly hand gestures.

With all due respect, the likely effect of having the mirror smashed off your car is far more likely to be anger and if unchecked (as per the mirror smasher) there is a very real likelihood of an escalation of a minor traffic incident into a major road rage incident as has been witnessed recently in Auckland where a guy actually got killed.

Lashing out in anger is never a good look as far as I am concerned, it just shows a lack of maturity and control.

[tigertim20]

That's right Tim.

But do you understand the concept of 'majority'? 6 times out of 10 is still a majority. Nowhere did I say that 9 times out of 10 was it purely accidental.

And even those 6 times out of 10 that it might be accidental it is still the result of inconsiderate riding and therefore subject to much the same chance of seriously fucking off the car driver.

Are you starting to understand now Tim?

To be honest KM, I am having trouble understanding, as your argument seems to change from post to post, it is a little hard to argue you down, when even you dont seem to know what you are trying to say.

Now you are saying even if the majority are accidents, that there is no difference between an accident and an act of anger? if you accidentally caused damage Im sure that you, as the outstanding citizen of such a high moral caliber that you promote yourself to be on here, would see to it that you repaired it as quickly as possible if there was damage. I would.
on the other hand if you cause damage intentionally, you are gonna get the fuck outta there ASAP.
Difference is intentional acts = road rage, andger, violence blah blah blah
accident = person at fault saying fuck, Im sorry, here allow me to remedy this, and the recipient of the damage leaving pleased that their faith in humanity remains intact for another day.

Anyway point is KM, decide which of your multiple personalities is trying to argue here, and once you have done that maybe we can clarify exactly wht it is that you are trying to say so we can produce some good arguments?

[Katman]

I am not condoning smashing mirrors, but I AM saying that when a person suffers a consequence like damage to their car, they are more likely to consider what actions of theirs contributed to the incident in the first place, certainly more so than when a rider who they dont see anyway makes some silly hand gestures.

And what if nothing that the car driver has done has contributed to the damage?

[Katman]

accident = person at fault saying fuck, Im sorry, here allow me to remedy this, and the recipient of the damage leaving pleased that their faith in humanity remains intact for another day.

And if you seriously believe that that is how most of these unintentional contacts are resolved then you're living in La La Land. They usually end with the motorcyclist lanesplitting away faster in the hope that the car driver hasn't got their number plate.

What are you then left with?






That's right - a fucked off car driver with a new found dislike for motorcyclists.

[tigertim20]

With all due respect, the likely effect of having the mirror smashed off your car is far more likely to be anger and if unchecked (as per the mirror smasher) there is a very real likelihood of an escalation of a minor traffic incident into a major road rage incident as has been witnessed recently in Auckland where a guy actually got killed.

Lashing out in anger is never a good look as far as I am concerned, it just shows a lack of maturity and control.

Agree, it wll fuck people off, but if you do nothing they will keep doing as they like, I am only saying that I can understand the twisted logic of retaliating. Not condone, but understand.

I tend to agree with most of what Ixion said earlier, and like he, I do not have the answer either. I just think that if KM has gone to all the trouble of making this thread, he would have either had a realistic alternative/solution, or would have asking for solution ideas, rather than just condemming people for it.

[Katman]

I just think that if KM has gone to all the trouble of making this thread,

Don't worry, it really wasn't any trouble at all.

[tigertim20]

And what if nothing that the car driver has done has contributed to the damage?

then in that case it is a simple example of normal road rage, the same that happens between cars abd cars, cars and trucks, busses and 4wD etc.

And if you seriously believe that that is how most of these unintentional contacts are resolved then you're living in La La Land. They usually end with the motorcyclist lanesplitting away faster in the hope that the car driver hasn't got their number plate.
What are you then left with?
That's right - a fucked off car driver with a new found dislike for motorcyclists.

sigh, I was simply pointing out that there is a difference between an accident, and a person that intentionally causes damage. And most people know the difference when it happens.
I have on 3 occaisions had riders go past my car, and clip the mirror. I was a little anoyed. got to my destination, and the mirror was simply folded forward, no damage. I recognozed that it wasnt intentional, there was no damage, and realised that its possible the rider may have genuinely not noticed they had lightly clipped my mirror. No harm done. You are still assuming here that the rider, on all occaisions is aware they have tapped the mirror. Often they are not. That is a point of difference.

[cs363]

Agree, it wll fuck people off, but if you do nothing they will keep doing as they like, I am only saying that I can understand the twisted logic of retaliating. Not condone, but understand.

I tend to agree with most of what Ixion said earlier, and like he, I do not have the answer either. I just think that if KM has gone to all the trouble of making this thread, he would have either had a realistic alternative/solution, or would have asking for solution ideas, rather than just condemming people for it.

Retaliation is not twisted logic, it's actually instinctive as the natural way to express anger is to respond aggressively. Anger is a natural, adaptive response to threats; it inspires powerful, often aggressive, feelings and behaviours, which allow us to fight and to defend ourselves when we are attacked. A certain amount of anger, therefore, is necessary to our survival.

On the other hand, we can't physically lash out at every person or object that irritates or annoys us; laws, social norms, and common sense place limits on how far our anger can take us.

Unfortunately common sense is a bit of a misnomer as its not common at all, in fact it seems to me to be getting scarcer all the time!

I guess a lot of the problem goes back to our crap driver education and licensing system in this country, people are let loose on the roads with virtually no formal training and the attitude that its their right to drive, rather than something that is earned. Without any real benchmarks such as driver training tests to pass, everyone with a licence tends to believe that they can do no wrong. How often do you see someone pull out in front of you and then give you the fingers or similar when they are totally in the wrong? Or because theres a car parked on their side of the road they feel its perfectly OK to pull into your opposing lane, rather than give way - despite the fact that they could cause a head on crash? No wonder we have so many of fatal head on crashes in NZ with this kind of attitude so prevalent.

Most motorcyclists seem keener to learn to be better riders than car drivers appear to want to be better drivers, in fact for a huge amount of people a car is viewed as more of an appliance that enables them to get from A to B. I suppose that with motorcyclists the need to be safer on the roads is more readily apparent than to someone cocooned in their car with its crumple zones, anti-intrusion bars, air bags and so on.
We also have a passion for our mode of transport which whilst true of some car drivers they would certainly be in the minority.

I know that if I accidentally clipped a car mirror I would certainly stop and 'do the right thing' as that was how I was brought up, though (touch wood) in many years of riding I've never had it happen as I like to think I have a pretty good awareness of my bikes size and also my vulnerability so I wouldn't be tempted to squeeze through a gap I thought was marginal. These tales of motorcyclists tearing off into the distance after such an accident are discouraging and I can only guess that perhaps this is attributable to the lack of personal responsibility that seems to be pervading modern society.

Anyhow, I'm starting to ramble (it's the alcohol you know...) but these days I deal with road rage incidents in a much calmer manner than when I was younger, by believing in Karma.....and the fact that what goes around comes around.

[gatch]

"Take his fuckin' wing mirror off".

Fuck yeah, will do, but only cause you told me too.

[PrincessBandit]

then in that case it is a simple example of normal road rage, the same that happens between cars abd cars, cars and trucks, busses and 4wD etc.



sigh, I was simply pointing out that there is a difference between an accident, and a person that intentionally causes damage. And most people know the difference when it happens.
I have on 3 occaisions had riders go past my car, and clip the mirror. I was a little anoyed. got to my destination, and the mirror was simply folded forward, no damage. I recognozed that it wasnt intentional, there was no damage, and realised that its possible the rider may have genuinely not noticed they had lightly clipped my mirror. No harm done. You are still assuming here that the rider, on all occaisions is aware they have tapped the mirror. Often they are not. That is a point of difference.

Well if having your mirror clipped hasn't made you anything more than a little annoyed then I'd think you're probably either a saint or at least in a significant minority. Since you are a rider you may have a more understanding attitude towards these types of incident, but any driver who doesn't ride is less likely to be as forgiving. That doesn't mean they'll take out the next rider who crosses their path, but it won't engender any particular feelings of respect or courtesy.

Even though I ride I'd still be very hacked off to have a bike clip my mirror while lanesplitting, or a rider decide to "pay me back" for whatever the reason is by smashing my mirror off. A lot of car drivers really feel they have done nothing wrong when they piss off a motorcyclist and further damage to their vehicle isn't going to make them any more understanding.

As said previously, much of the damage inflicted on cars seems to be more to do with a pissed off rider making themself feel better rather than trying to "educate" in some twisted kind of way.

[sinned]

How do you smash a mirror? This is simple question for which there should be plenty of answers given the apparent frequency of said incidents. Can you really get a foot high enough to kick a mirror or is it a job for a fist? What happens to hand or foot if the mirror is well mounted?

Has anyone actually smashed a mirror or seen this happen?

[PrincessBandit]

Read a number of posts which specify armoured gloves as being particularly good for the job.....

[ducatilover]

Read a number of posts which specify armoured gloves as being particularly good for the job.....

They certainly are

[bogan]

I just think that if KM has gone to all the trouble of making this thread, he would have either had a realistic alternative/solution, or would have asking for solution ideas, rather than just condemming people for it.

There was some discussion on this about 6 pages ago, i myself even participated, then it all degenerated into this bitching nonsene.

Serious discusion, lols, or gtfo imo.