To Robert Taylor and other MNZ bashers

[idleidolidyll]

Narrow focus? NO mate, FACT!

The sport is actaully dying ( NZ Champs status) at the moment in case you had not noticed, so job well done by who ever our paid staff members are, as well as, was there any money found to promote the sport by our Paid staff members?

It's been dying for many years Shaun, it didn't start when Paul took the helm. The interesting thing is that the sport went into decline around the time sponsorship started to increase drastically and the cost of winning or placing highly rose dramatically.

Narrow minded focus on money, who has that? Some people who are buisness people, do push there barrows with there product, but there product if fantastic, as is there support of the product, and there passion to make it better, as a rep of said product, I too have NO problem with making a living from a part of it, that is how the world works mate, and I know you know that.

This thread has turned into a personell bitching match, and should be deleated

Again, I have no problem with profit making. Again, that profit making should be made clear if it might influence decisions (particularly if that person is a member of the committee or has another important role in MNZ, or has the ear of an MNZ executive).
It isn't necessarily about the profit made directly from the racers on the track either, it may just as well mean the profits made in the general riding public due to a reputation gained by sorting out bikes on the track.

I am in no doubt at all that both you and Mr Taylor make bikes better to ride and you are able to reduce lap times for most riders. However, I do question the extent to which the cost of developing bikes affects the numbers entering and watching races.

[idleidolidyll]

Jesus people.

Thsi thread was started by someone taking shit personally, on behalf of his elected brother.

Anybody who takes an elected position, and doesn't have thick enough skin to take criticism, is a fuckin moron. That said, the family of said official need to take it on the chin, since one has to assume we didn't elect a fuckin moron.

I disagree. Nobody should be expected to sit back and just suck up offensive attacks once they get personal and they did.

I fail to see where all the offence has come form anyway. Robert Taylor is NOT the kind of guy, to give criticism not constructive.

And neither is Paul. I fail to see the point. Personally though and on this website, I have received many posts from Mr Taylor that were definitely not constructive. One should always expect quid pro quo and not complain when it arrives.

When I first went racing, I didn't understand suspension and the gains from upgrading it, I did exceptionally well on a stock SV against a field of them with decent gear, the only guy in front of me was Glenn Williams on a well fucked with F3 bike. I started to question RT on everything he said, HEAPS of cock smokers around this place saw me to be attacking Robert and red repped me. Robert however answered my questions, never once took it personally, and generally showed me he was not just trying to drum up business.

Nobody has ever said Mr Taylor doesn't know his business. That's a bit of a red herring in the context of this debate.

Fuck it, why bother, most of the people on here wouldn't have the balls to man up and say half this shit face to face, implying the lack the courage of their convictions.

Idol, you are nothing more than an antagonist. An educated one perhaps, but a shit stirer all the same.

Please DO bother. It DOES matter. Thats what I mean about transparency.
You call me a shit stirrer, OK that';s your opinion. On the other hand I am an ex racer and perhaps will race again: I'm a stakeholder both as a rider and a spectator and my voice is as important as anyones.
I welcome your comments, they are all valid from your point of view and deserve airing, please allow the same from others

[Finn]

I guess this is the price we all pay for living on a small, insignificant Island in the south pacific where everything is a struggle because of a lack of professionalism and money. When I was involved in 4 wheeled motorsport, the governing body was full of beer bellied busy bodies and has beens who exercised their once in a lifetime opportunity to use their index finger. I got out of it because the fat useless bastards were holding the sport back. While I haven't read this thread in full or know too much about MNZ, I could confidently say the same applies here. Lets face it, we just don't do things well at all in NZ.

And so typical of small minded kiwi's, we attack people trying to money because we're bitter that it's not handed to us on a plate. However, last time I looked, Robert Taylor wasn't on the NBR rich list, rather he's a guy with a passion for motorcycle racing and provides by all accounts a bloody good service to racers at the Ohlins brand. We need to support people like Robert and get rid of people that hold back progress.

[Drew]

I am in no doubt at all that both you and Mr Taylor make bikes better to ride and you are able to reduce lap times for most riders. However, I do question the extent to which the cost of developing bikes affects the numbers entering and watching races.

Suspension upgrades save money in the long run ya friggin idiot!

With a standard GSXR1000, a rear tyre is fucked after ten laps of manfield long track, by anyone giving it a nudge. Do that three times in a day, and you've paid for half of a TTX36. Which set up right, would have seen the one tyre last the day.

Dont bother arguing it might be set up poorly, how much time will Robert spend in set up, revalving, and revalving again if ya get a shock?

And I quote, "as much time as it takes to get it right Drew".

[idleidolidyll]

Suspension upgrades save money in the long run ya friggin idiot!

With a standard GSXR1000, a rear tyre is fucked after ten laps of manfield long track, by anyone giving it a nudge. Do that three times in a day, and you've paid for half of a TTX36. Which set up right, would have seen the one tyre last the day.

Dont bother arguing it might be set up poorly, how much time will Robert spend in set up, revalving, and revalving again if ya get a shock?

And I quote, "as much time as it takes to get it right Drew".

Drew, please try to post without direct personal attacks, it isn't constructive and all it does is persuade me to reply in kind.

Perhaps some level of suspension setup reduces tyre wear dramatically but I wonder how much of that could also be achieved by setting up the stock suspension correctly?

It is very much a strange point that spending great wads of money on suspension saves money because my posts are not directed at the guys spending just a few bucks, more at those spending many thousands.

Has anyone here got some actual FACTS on the amount of dosh spent on the top bikes suspension? Opinion seems a waste of time.
Of course this thread isn't just about suspension, we could extend that and ask how much money is being spent on a standard Suzuki or Yamaha in order to lead the class? If it totals the amount you could buy an R spec bike for; why are they excluded?

If it is so much that it makes winning almost unachievable by those with bugger all money to spend and reduces class sizes and spectatator numbers; is it actually promoting the sport?

[idleidolidyll]

No Finn, you are making false assumptions and seem to be conveniently ignoring the arguments. I do not attack anyone because they make money, I myself do pretty well thanks.

My motivations are as stated and IMO posts like yours are only designed to shit stir.

On a wider note: Ignoring profit motivations only allows more Fay, Richwhite and Blue Chip results.

[scrivy]

If it is so much that it makes winning almost unachievable by those with bugger all money to spend and reduces class sizes and spectatator numbers; is it actually promoting the sport?

Try racing an old piece of shit sidecar worth $20,000 against a $120,000 LCR.
You guys go on about $50,000 bikes - try to beat a $120,000 machine!!!
I'm banging my head against a wall.....


Oh, and I won't change over to the long bikes.....
I prefer my short one...........

[idleidolidyll]

Try racing an old piece of shit sidecar worth $20,000 against a $120,000 LCR.
You guys go on about $50,000 bikes - try to beat a $120,000 machine!!!
I'm banging my head against a wall.....


Oh, and I won't change over to the long bikes.....
I prefer my short one...........

yep, that's the point IMO.

more power to you scrivy, you are fighting a money game and many others would have, and probably have already have, given up

[Drew]

Drew, please try to post without direct personal attacks, it isn't constructive and all it does is persuade me to reply in kind.

OK

Perhaps some level of suspension setup reduces tyre wear dramatically but I wonder how much of that could also be achieved by setting up the stock suspension correctly?

Mr Taylor has spent a few hours with just my bikes, running standard equipment. He does not really discriminate when it comes to simple clicker adjustments. I will strongly attest that nomatter how much he clicks a standard shock, it will not provide enough constant stability to drastically save the same amount of tyre wear.

It is very much a strange point that spending great wads of money on suspension saves money because my posts are not directed at the guys spending just a few bucks, more at those spending many thousands

Has anyone here got some actual FACTS on the amount of dosh spent on the top bikes suspension? Opinion seems a waste of time.
Of course this thread isn't just about suspension, we could extend that and ask how much money is being spent on a standard Suzuki or Yamaha in order to lead the class? If it totals the amount you could buy an R spec bike for; why are they excluded?

Dunno the exact figures at the moment, RT can confirm that $7,000 would be damn near as good it gets front and back, perhaps not to the extent of TTX forks.

Now weigh that against the $80,000 build that is sitting in my garage.

If it is so much that it makes winning almost unachievable by those with bugger all money to spend and reduces class sizes and spectatator numbers; is it actually promoting the sport?

Here's a wee tit bit for ya. Jimmy went racing on the K7, Ray Clee went about wanking it as much as he was allowed. The limit of tune came from where? Suzuki New Zealand, not the MNZ rule book.So what point is there in lowering the allowable tuning?

[Finn]

My motivations are as stated and IMO posts like yours are only designed to shit stir.

On a wider note: Ignoring profit motivations only allows more Fay, Richwhite and Blue Chip results.

From one shit stirrer to another then...

I stated your motivation as well. You're in the category of "has been" although perhaps "been" is a little exaggeration. Motorcycle racing has changed a bit since you ran down the beach on a puddle jumper.

Fay Richwhite was another story but you're right with Blue Chip. Dump kiwi's ignoring profit motivations and investing in Blue Chip. Same with MNZ I guess, people backing the wrong people.

[Drew]

Oh, and I won't change over to the long bikes.....
I prefer my short one...........

And you ride it well indeed. A question though, do you think you'd be faster on an LCR? I know quite little about rigs, but I'm told the long chair doesn't respond as well to aggression. And having seen you pilot you're beast, the ONLY thing it responds to is aggression.

[idleidolidyll]

From one shit stirrer to another then...

I stated your motivation as well. You're in the category of "has been" although perhaps "been" is a little exaggeration.

Personal attacks Finn, i expect no less from you. Better a has been than a never was and never could be though.

Motorcycle racing has changed a bit since you ran down the beach on a puddle jumper.

Yawn, I raced MX for 10 years then road raced for about 8.
The main change has been a reduction of entries and crowd numbers.

Fay Richwhite was another story but you're right with Blue Chip. Dump kiwi's ignoring profit motivations and investing in Blue Chip. Same with MNZ I guess, people backing the wrong people.

No, Fay Richwhite et al is THE story. Unless you are fully aware of the money motivation, you are setting yourself up to be fucked over.

So do you have something On-topic or are you just going to continue the personal attacks?

[Finn]

No, Fay Richwhite et al is THE story. Unless you are fully aware of the money motivation, you are setting yourself up to be fucked over.

So do you have something On-topic or are you just going to continue the personal attacks?

Why are you trying to take the moral high ground? Is it because you've been booted off KB before cause people think you're a idiot or is it because you have a vested interest in protecting the failings of MNZ?

[Shaun]

idle, to Quote you

" It is very much a strange point that spending great wads of money on suspension saves money because my posts are not directed at the guys spending just a few bucks, more at those spending many thousands."


You are a racer from the OLD days, things have really changed mate, suspension is very important these days, why, Tyres in paticuallar, they are developed by scientists to work at there peak, so tyre warmers and trick healthy suspension IS NEEDED, simple, or just go aroung wearing out tyres and crashing and pay those bills, bugger that big time.

Front and rear trick Ohlin;s about $6000K, re sell for About $3000K cost you $3k for a season of work, and saved you at least a set of tyres per day at the track over a year, so tyres at around $600-00 a set, NEED I go on?

ABOUT PRODUCTION BIKES

I started the subject on here many months ago to see where the market is, I had done a deal with a Suzuki agent to purchase 15 bikes- PRODUCTION spec, I only got 4 confirmed orders to lease them- Wow, kind of shoots the prod class in the arse, and PROVES that riders them selfes do not want STD suspension bikes.

Re money this and money that- BOLLOCKS, if some one wants to race more than anything else, they will get a 2nd and 3rd job, and do what they have to do to make it happen.

Glenn Shachill springs to mind, hence the support he gets from me and Chris etc

Re the past good old days, dealers had better margins and more sales back then, so it was easier to obtain a bike through them, times have changed, and our office has not caught up yet

This is NOT an attack at PP, ( I respect him as a man)

one way to encourage more riders to the nationals, is to reduce the 3 days to 2 days, and drop the trip to Invercargill for a year or 2, untill finance becomes healthier.

Sorry Southland club, you all do a fantastic job, but the cost of the travell and accom to race down there does not justify it I think at the preasent point and time.


Ps, YES I do make money from suspension work, I am very comfartable with that, as I too also put a lot back into the sport free of charge, simillar to how Robert operates, any one is free to ask for advise help guidence at the track or on here or even call me on the phone, No problem what so ever, as I LOVE this sport

[Robert Taylor]

Suffice to say;

1) We appear to have a John Minto in the road race world, and thats not a compliment.
2 Interesting that this thread lay dormant for some time, it tends to confirm that its ressurection was due to in part personal antagonism and a desire to stir. Totally succeded.
3) Transparency issues and a tendency towards autocracy are the exact reasons there has been a cleanout within the upper echelons of MNZ. I raised such issues prior and if that is seen as MNZ bashing then I proudly plead guilty.
4) Decisions will be taken by people who have experience and in depth knowledge.
5) In total defence of Shaun. He has had a lot of help from many people inside and outside of the industry over the years. And paid that back with great results. Now he is putting ALL of his own money back into the sport helping up and coming riders. If he can derive some income as well from it the all the very best to him, I am aware that officially its not a crime.

The riders and tuners actively engaged with 600 AND 1000cc bikes best understand the suspension and tyre interaction issues, full stop.