Settling Maori claims. Someone explain.

**Winston001** · 7th July 2009, 15:40

Originally Posted by ElCoyote

I don't think the 3.5M figure is correct but with the burning of his dwelling and the sabotage of his equipment, not to mention the harrassment of his family by gutless thugs, I think he was entitled to every penny

Agreed he had a tough time and no-one should have to experience what happened to him. However he wasn't exactly listening and was pretty aggressive. Maori wanted access to burial grounds on his farm - I suggest most people would be sympathetic to that. Titford refused.

I think Quasi says it all:

Originally Posted by Quasievil

.....for example I discovered that my Grandfather (a paramount chief- he was a signatory to the treaty) and was highly regarded by many, died and was buried just outside Bulls on top of a small hill.

This prime spot was later regarded by an army big wig as an ideal spot to bury his war hero Horse, grandads grave was bowled over and replaced with a monument to a fucking horse.

Thats a demonstration of the relevance the government had for Maori, do you think they cared about their land or anything else for that matter ??

**Winston001** · 7th July 2009, 15:46

Originally Posted by ElCoyote

Ask Quasi what state the Raglan Golf Course is in today, and that was the first piece of land supposedly "given back"

I think you'll find Bastion Point is the first modern settlement on Maori. Its a reserve now and a very nice spot. It was going to be turned into a subdivision in 1978.

I've never heard anyone say that Bastion Point should be covered with houses instead of being preserved.

**SPman** · 7th July 2009, 16:06

Originally Posted by Winston001

I think you'll find Bastion Point is the first modern settlement on Maori. Its a reserve now and a very nice spot. It was going to be turned into a subdivision in 1978.

I've never heard anyone say that Bastion Point should be covered with houses instead of being preserved.

There were plenty saying that in the '70's!

Originally Posted by Brett

But Im proud that as a New Zealander we can address this shit and move on as opposed to hoping it will all go away like most other countries.............thats kudos for us isnt it?

Address it, deal thoroughly and fairly to all the issues (shit, there are claims that date back through the courts to at least the 1870's that keep getting put in the "too hard, leave it and hope it goes away" basket), suck it up, pay our dues and put things as right as it is possible to get at this remove from events, regardless of the howls of outrage from those suffering from collective hysterical jealousy, and then there should be a firm base to settle down and move on.
Until then, with acts like Labour's shafting of due process to try and buy of the baying "Maori get to much I don't get anything" vote, the whole scene is like a festering, scabby pus ridden sore, being half heartedly picked at, with no one prepared to get stuck in and clean it out so the wound can heal, and that does no credit to too many people........

**Katman** · 7th July 2009, 16:53

Originally Posted by SPman

the whole scene is like a festering, scabby pus ridden sore, being half heartedly picked at, with no one prepared to get stuck in and clean it out so the wound can heal, and that does no credit to too many people........

You've gotta admit though, there's something oh so indescribably satisfying about picking at scabs.

Or is that just me?

**SPman** · 7th July 2009, 17:06

say............

........:slap:

you're right!

**popelli** · 7th July 2009, 17:38

Originally Posted by Winston001

Because of our isolation as remote islands, we have an unusually clear choice. Maori culture. This (and the Cook Islands) is the only place in the world where Maori is spoken. Maori culture exists nowhere else.

Not quite correct

A dialect of Maori is also spoken in Hawaii where the Rarotongans came from originally.

And if we are to be perfectly politically correct we would teach the 7 different regional tribal dialects of maori rather than enforce one dialect onto the rest of the country

This would also create additional opportuinities for teaching maori language in schools, we could also have 7 regional maori TV channels and also 7 regional radio shows

However the cost to the general economy of the resultant improved and enlarged maori language industry consuming vast amounts up the taxpayers money would be a fiscal disaster

Over the last 40 years I have watched Maori place names change pronounciation in the name of political correctness as one dialect is enforced over another tribes pronounciation of their region

However your clear case of choosing maori culture to the exclusion of all other cultures is denying 80 - 90 % of the population a right to celebrate their own cultures and be recognised and celebrated as part of the fabric of the general society - this is hardly the mark of a modern democratic society

**Bonez** · 7th July 2009, 18:00

Originally Posted by Winston001

Agreed he had a tough time and no-one should have to experience what happened to him. However he wasn't exactly listening and was pretty aggressive. Maori wanted access to burial grounds on his farm

There were no bones found in the specific section of land claimed to be a Maori burial ground.

**Solly** · 7th July 2009, 18:12

Shit, what a cracker history lesson
this thread is!!!

**Winston001** · 7th July 2009, 18:18

Originally Posted by popelli

Over the last 40 years I have watched Maori place names change pronounciation in the name of political correctness as one dialect is enforced over another tribes pronounciation of their region

But what I don't get is why you or anyone else feels threatened by this?

However your clear case of choosing maori culture to the exclusion of all other cultures is denying 80 - 90 % of the population a right to celebrate their own cultures and be recognised and celebrated as part of the fabric of the general society - this is hardly the mark of a modern democratic society

Not at all. No-one has said or suggested that anywhere in this discussion. The people of Dannevirke celebrate their Danish heritage. The French settlement on Akaroa is kept very alive.

Personally my culture is Scottish even though I'm at least 3 generations removed from Scotland. I love it but also barely think about it.

My kids are culturally English/Scottish/Israeli but they are kiwis first and foremost. They are growing up comfortable with Maori language and culture. Great. I don't feel in the slightest bit afraid or bothered by that. They'll eventually visit the other places, but they will still be kiwis.

Its a big world. New Zealanders get mistaken for Aussies or Brits all the time. Doing - and understanding - a haka does set us apart.

Its a simplistic example but makes the point.