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Thread: Choose a turn style

  1. #16
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    8th November 2004 - 11:00
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    Something else to consider...
    You've heard of this mythical state 'the zone'?
    It is real.
    Stop trying so hard. Relax. Slow down a little. Stay off the brakes and control your speed with the throttle. Let it flow. You will find yourself in TheZone™. Your cornering 'style' will come automatically.
    Ever tried going against the advice for riding in high winds? Doesn't feel good, does it? Tense. Always correcting. Not in control. Same thing as above.
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  2. #17
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    15th March 2004 - 13:00
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    Quote Originally Posted by idleidolidyll View Post
    Go to the Hilltop and turn back to face Little River, turn off your engine and push your bike a bit until it gets rolling. Now coast ALL the way down the hill trying not to touch the brakes if possible but be very wary of coming up behind cars as you will have a hell of a job getting past them. Note how close to Little River township you get and do it over again.
    Just dont do this if you have Servo-assist on your GS! Haha!

  3. #18
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    26th September 2007 - 10:28
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    I think your thinking to much also.... If your tinking of "what" style you should take this corner at... you are wasting valuable time as you still have, your speed, braking, road/condition etc, environment/hazards to attend too. In a perfect world for some it will become second nature as it is for you to change gear, more fingers to pull clutch,adjust throttle,move foot to change gear etc.... you do all that without thinking of doing it aye? it will come, you will find a style subconsciously that suits you.You will find you did a perfect corner without thinking about The only time you will change that is when you push yourself and your bike on the track.... that is really just changing your approach to that

    My 2 cents worth...
    DUCATI ------- A real bike in a sea of shit!

  4. #19
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    8th October 2007 - 14:58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSTRS View Post
    Relax.
    Don't do it!


    Nah, in all seriousness I think that is the most important thing. Just relax and enjoy the ride.

    But in regards to cornering styles - foot out doesn't work that well with a faired sportsbike. On the motard I find that I change styles depending upon the corner - if it is either gravel or a very tight slow corners I'll do foot out. Anything above 50 km/h on tarmac I either remain neutral or lean in - depending upon mood and pace.
    Foot out is good if you can not trust the surface properly - but it won't help you much if you are going faster than you can actually kick the bike back up again if you start sliding. (this is of course not counting deliberately loosing traction on the rear-tyre - while backing it in may be considered a fourth cornering style you'd have to be extremely keen to use it on public paved roads)
    It is preferential to refrain from the utilisation of grandiose verbiage in the circumstance that your intellectualisation can be expressed using comparatively simplistic lexicological entities. (...such as the word fuck.)

    Remember your humanity, and forget the rest. - Joseph Rotblat

  5. #20
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    14th December 2006 - 23:38
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    I'm feeling a little shied off this topic, but I'm not all done yet!

    Sure, the zone. Love it. Don't know anyone who can pull it out of the hat on demand.

    It's well known that what appears to be second-guessing, sixth sense, supreme effortlessness, comes in fact from rigorous and unyielding practice.

    You can only relax your mind on any skill when you have executed it so many times that it can be called on at will, or subconsciously. It becomes integrated.

    I don't see how what I am proposing is any different to any skill that anyone here will labour over and over in the pursuit of flow, of internalising that skill, for the purposes of perfection and getting in the zone.

    You don't get in the zone by being crap. How do you get good?

    You practice your lines I assume. You go over and over them working out how to improve, especially track addicts. You practice your braking, your emergency braking, countersteering. Maybe you practice your hazard recognition, using computer assisted learning, or commentary driving. You practice being relaxed, getting your groins to relax, your belly to settle, your arms to soften and so on. You practice riding without touching the brakes, slow speed riding, do some dirt, some track and so on. Practice practice.

    And what happens if something starts to go off the boil? Do you simply get into the zone and it goes away? On a ride it's very difficult to do that on demand. Actually, I think for me, the ability to assess how close or far I am from the zone and adjust my riding to suit is my ultimate defensive riding skill. I feel this especially when riding in town; if I can feel smooth and safe with everything milling around every which way then I am in my zone. If I keep missing things, start doing double-takes and so on I ease off and ride more conservatively. When I teach anyone this skill I walk them through a busy mall, trying to be smooth and steady with everyone apparently randomly walking all over the place. It's good and safe practice for this skill.

    When I judge that I am in my zone and all is flow, I can get off a fast-paced ride with GSXR-1000 and 750 riders (who don't ride blind) and feel rested and elated. When my state of flow is down, I ease off. When it's buggered I stop for a walk, a coffee, a peppermint tea! When it is because of stress, lack of sleep etc I put the bike back in the garage.

    So in fact, I still believe that like any other skill, if you are having problems like I described in corners, then some practice with deliberate focus on that skill will help. It's that practice that helps put it in the tool box. There's no point glossing over it, making an effort to get into the zone.

    I think it's an element of our skillset and practice that is underated and overlooked. So much time and debate and worry on entry speed, apex, countersteering, line, vanishing point, and so on. No one says go practice your three turning styles and then practice using each of them. I just did.

    Now go enjoy your ride again.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikemike View Post

    Sure, the zone. Love it. Don't know anyone who can pull it out of the hat on demand.

    It's well known that what appears to be second-guessing, sixth sense, supreme effortlessness, comes in fact from rigorous and unyielding practice.
    You are quite right. TheZone™ will only be achieved if you are in the right headspace. And that can only be achieved if you are relaxed. You are also right about practice. To the point where it all becomes 'automatic'.
    What I was trying to say is that if you try too hard, you won't relax, in which case the ride becomes what you describe....disjointed, unsettled, unenjoyable hard work. Instead of practicing body position styles, rather slow down, relax and concentrate on smooth flow. The skill of being smooth is not an easy thing to achieve, but I think it is more basic than where you put your shoulders, bum etc. If you concentrate on smooth, your body will naturally tend to assume the correct (for you) attitude without conscious thought.
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSTRS View Post
    Instead of practicing body position styles, rather slow down, relax and concentrate on smooth flow. The skill of being smooth is not an easy thing to achieve, but I think it is more basic than where you put your shoulders, bum etc. If you concentrate on smooth, your body will naturally tend to assume the correct (for you) attitude without conscious thought.
    I agree, if you practice riding smooth, speed will come automatically.

    As you ride an BMW R1200GS i dunno what the best style would be for the road, a small lean off the bike into the corner is always good from a technical point of view, but its really whatever feels best to you, just pick one type and go with it.
    "A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal

  8. #23
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    5th February 2008 - 13:07
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    I have only one cornering method, but I vary its' degree.

    I start with simply leaning so my chin and shoulder is to one side, and I am sitting on one bum cheek. Usually this is plenty for the bike to casually roll into a corner. Touring mode!

    If I am moving more quickly, I will combine it with a small bar push, or a more exaggerated shoulder movement.

    If I am moving plenty quickly, or I detect some substantial movement is required, then I will stand and put my my whole body out, opposite bar push, and wait and then concentrate and steer with the bars. I know I have maximum cornering ability available in the position.. well, my bikes does.. not so much for me..

    So for me it is about degree, and situational awareness. Some days I struggle with the bar push when I am already mid-corner.. some days I don't. Some days are just like that.

    What does not, and never has, and never will work for me, is riding along quickly and not thinking about it. I repeatedly find myself up shit creek doing that, consequently requiring large mind-fuck type bar-pushes and large angles of lean, and if I am unlucky - touches of tyre on white line or worse.

    Always engage brain.

    Steve
    "I am a licenced motorcycle instructor, I agree with dangerousbastard, no point in repeating what he said."
    "read what Steve says. He's right."
    "What Steve said pretty much summed it up."
    "I did axactly as you said and it worked...!!"
    "Wow, Great advise there DB."
    WTB: Hyosung bikes or going or not.

  9. #24
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    Someone said in another post - that you and the bike are one. Relax and go with the flow - often the corner is gone before you know it - maybe you are concentrating too hard on making it perfect. Just ride and enjoy!

  10. #25
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    Hey Bikemike,

    I too have had this problem on some rides, and I have found that it is a lapst in concerntration and "survival reactions" making me feel at ease.

    Managed to work out the issues on my old Hyo, the new bike I am back to square one learning the bike again.

    Anyhow.. hire out the book everyone is on about "Twist of the Wrist" it is quite a good book, It touch's alot on the phycological side of bike control. I found it a great book to give me something to think about.

    I also have made a decission to get back into minibike riding so I can be a little loose in a safe envionment to train out some survival reactions.

    Good luck dude.

    Leyton

  11. #26
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    My thoughts are, it would depend on the style of your bike, and the speed in which you intend to corner in. But most importantly, relax with the bike and if in doubt, lean more, and just let it happen

  12. #27
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    13th April 2007 - 17:09
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    Hey Steve, you have just given me another excuse to ride my bike.

    Arse cheek rises are damn good exercise. I don't know if I was doing them but now that I know it is great exercise I will make sure that I do.

    So the right cheek turns you left and the left cheek turns you right........Right ?

  13. #28
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    25th January 2008 - 17:56
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    lol, Don't forget to lift when approaching a large lip or other impediment to good smooth forward momentum.Otherwise you may end up only able to turn one good cheek and a badly bruised one.
    "Ride(always!) to your own ability" exceed that and every corner is going to turn to custard.
    Zoning doesn't have to involve going fast or faster than normal, it's simply when everything clicks and every corner has a beginning and and end and you "just do it"
    Relax, enjoy the ride, read each corner before entering and plan on coming out the other side, on the correct side of the road, moving faster than when you went in and still in complete control.
    "Those who fail to plan,plan to fail"
    Every day above ground is a good day!:

  14. #29
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    14th July 2006 - 21:39
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    It appears I fall into "1..... old school" Every now and then a knee may pop out the side, but frankly if you are needing to slide ya arse off on every corner I think you are going way too fast on a public road with zero respect to what's around that blind corner.

    My favourite is the people who slide over and pop a knee out on a corner that I could easily take at the same speed side-saddle! Gives me a good laugh every time.

    I out to enjoy the ride - the speed varies with how I'm feeling and traffic etc - some days a cruise, some a lot quicker. As stated don't over think it, and go with the flow.

    The worst thing I find is, in a group ride trying to keep up with someone who is riding above your personal safety zone - you just end up f-ing up each corner. Button off a fraction and you'll find when you stop they will be just removing their helmet when you pull up.

    Theres too many posts on KB after a group ride of someone coming off.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanB View Post
    It appears I fall into "1..... old school" Every now and then a knee may pop out the side, but frankly if you are needing to slide ya arse off on every corner I think you are going way too fast on a public road with zero respect to what's around that blind corner.

    My favourite is the people who slide over and pop a knee out on a corner that I could easily take at the same speed side-saddle! Gives me a good laugh every time.
    I do that, not because I need to, its just good technique, allows the suspension to cope with bumps much more effectively, and feels cool too
    "A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal

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