Insurance

[MarkH]

The fact is that there are a lot of $50K+ cars driving around Auckland (Subaru, Holden, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Ferrari, Jaguar, Lexus, etc) and if you fuck up and damage one (or at least get blamed for the accident) then you could be up for a very large bill. I pay $500 per year for insurance because I can't afford the $7K to replace my scooter, let alone $10K+ for the other vehicle.

There is also the huge advantage of not having to get money out of the other party when they are at fault (this happened with the car twice last year). Insurance pays you and they have the fun & joy of sorting out the deal with the 'at fault' party. I have my car/bike repaired and carry on with my life.

[cowboyz]

The fact is that there are a lot of $50K+ cars driving around Auckland (Subaru, Holden, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Ferrari, Jaguar, Lexus, etc) and if you fuck up and damage one (or at least get blamed for the accident) then you could be up for a very large bill. I pay $500 per year for insurance because I can't afford the $7K to replace my scooter, let alone $10K+ for the other vehicle.

There is also the huge advantage of not having to get money out of the other party when they are at fault (this happened with the car twice last year). Insurance pays you and they have the fun & joy of sorting out the deal with the 'at fault' party. I have my car/bike repaired and carry on with my life.

all based on my orginail premise that you do not feel like you can ride your bike on a public road without avoiding an accident.

[Max Preload]

The fact is that there are a lot of $50K+ cars driving around Auckland (Subaru, Holden, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Ferrari, Jaguar, Lexus, etc) and if you fuck up and damage one (or at least get blamed for the accident) then you could be up for a very large bill.

How fast are you going around Auckland that you think you're going to write off a $50k car through your own fault? You're also forgetting that cars are notoriously cheap to repair, whereas bikes are notoriously expensive!

I pay $500 per year for insurance because I can't afford the $7K to replace my scooter, let alone $10K+ for the other vehicle.

Just as I don't pay $500/year because I can. Now, if I could just find something I'd like to actually buy from someone who is not a complete halfwit, unable to operate their computer and digital camera I would have another bike and the matter would be concluded... alas my search for such a vendor has been largely futile.

There is also the huge advantage of not having to get money out of the other party when they are at fault (this happened with the car twice last year).

For you that's an advantage. For me, it doesn't figure in the cost/benefit/likelyhood equation.

[Indiana_Jones]

all based on my orginail premise that you do not feel like you can ride your bike on a public road without avoiding an accident.

Well I donno about you but I couldn't see let alone get out of the way of the stupid cunt to drove into the back of me.

Shit happens.

-Indy

[Owl]

How fast are you going around Auckland that you think you're going to write off a $50k car through your own fault? You're also forgetting that cars are notoriously cheap to repair, whereas bikes are notoriously expensive!

That's not actually correct Max. It wasn't that long ago we repaired a BMW X5 with fairly minor damage. Slight suspension damage, new front guard, wheel and door required. Total cost in excess of $20k with $7500 for the door trim (airbags) alone.

Interestingly the X5 driver was at fault and the innocent party had no insurance. The wealthy party had their solicitor at the scene and they nearly succeeded in shifting the blame saying the young girl ran a red light. Lucky young girl was fortunate that an independent witness came forward to state otherwise.

[cowboyz]

Well I donno about you but I couldn't see let alone get out of the way of the stupid cunt to drove into the back of me.

Shit happens.

-Indy

righto- and being as they caused the accident either they pay or they realised that they do not have the skills to drive a vehicle on a public road without causing an accident and paid a company in advance to pay for their mistakes.

if you are insured or not shouldnt have any bearing at all in this case.

That's not actually correct Max. It wasn't that long ago we repaired a BMW X5 with fairly minor damage. Slight suspension damage, new front guard, wheel and door required. Total cost in excess of $20k with $7500 for the door trim (airbags) alone.

Interestingly the X5 driver was at fault and the innocent party had no insurance. The wealthy party had their solicitor at the scene and they nearly succeeded in shifting the blame saying the young girl ran a red light. Lucky young girl was fortunate that an independent witness came forward to state otherwise.

jepps we live in a cynical world. One would hope that is particular case is not the norm but sometimes you got to stand up and argue the point. Because the above BMW rider didnt want to take responisibilty for his own actions shouldnt be an argument for insurance, it should be an argument for taking responsibility for ones actions.

[Indiana_Jones]

righto- and being as they caused the accident either they pay or they realised that they do not have the skills to drive a vehicle on a public road without causing an accident and paid a company in advance to pay for their mistakes.

if you are insured or not shouldnt have any bearing at all in this case.

I was insured, that useless cunt wasn't.

I got my insurance to pay for it, about $1000 and he'll be paying them back about $10 a week I'm guessing for a while. I don't care, I needed my only form of transport back on the road!

If I had not had the insurance, then I would of had to of gone to the civil disputes court etc to make sure this guy paid (he was the kind that wouldn't of by his own accord) and I would of had to have fronted the grand up front of got $5 a week for 20 years


Bottom line is, each to their own.

I'm not trying to promote or denounce insurance, people know the case both ways.

EDIT: you're point above about people taking responsibility is key, people should and if they did I wouldn't of had to of done what happened above.

-Indy

[Supermac Jr]

You feel the need to pay someone to cover your mistakes because you do not have the confidence in your ability to avoid an accident.

good point! confidence in your ability or self-control to stay within your limits, etc, etc.

but there's always the remaining (not controlled by yourself) risk that something happens changing the 'ability-equation' like a blowout/oil sending you into the X5 causing you to 'put it on plastic'.

you imply that the confidence/ability operates at 100% all the time. You only have to be a tad off for less than 1 sec for it all to turn to custard.

Alot of 'ifs' in there...

[Max Preload]

That's not actually correct Max. It wasn't that long ago we repaired a BMW X5 with fairly minor damage. Slight suspension damage, new front guard, wheel and door required. Total cost in excess of $20k with $7500 for the door trim (airbags) alone.

Interestingly the X5 driver was at fault and the innocent party had no insurance. The wealthy party had their solicitor at the scene and they nearly succeeded in shifting the blame saying the young girl ran a red light. Lucky young girl was fortunate that an independent witness came forward to state otherwise.

Was the girl on a bike?

[cowboyz]

good point! confidence in your ability or self-control to stay within your limits, etc, etc.

but there's always the remaining (not controlled by yourself) risk that something happens changing the 'ability-equation' like a blowout/oil sending you into the X5 causing you to 'put it on plastic'.

you imply that the confidence/ability operates at 100% all the time. You only have to be a tad off for less than 1 sec for it all to turn to custard.

Alot of 'ifs' in there...

bike simply are not that unstable. If being 'a tad' off for 'less than 1 sec' will cause you to crash then you should not be riding bikes!

May have been lost in translation so Ill say it again here.

I am not against insurance, I am fully insured. What I am saying is that being insured doesnt negate personal responsibility which should be above all else. If you choose not to insure your bike its not because you are a wanker who is going to end up tens of thousands of dollars in debt. It simply means that you have worked out the risk/reward and it doesnt balance out.

It is the insured riders who ride without consequence because it is cheap for them to crash that annoy me.

[MarkH]

Just as I don't pay $500/year because I can.

This is something that I have no problem with - basically you are saying that you can afford to self-insure, there is nothing wrong with that. If I had more than enough money to be able to pay for the repair/replacement should I have an accident then I would consider not bothering with insurance. Although I have found my current insurer good to deal with, I was previously with State Insurance and they were such an incredible pain to deal with when making a claim (house burglary) that I would never go back to those cnuts again!

If I could afford it I would definitely prefer to self insure than to use State Insurance!

[MarkH]

all based on my orginail premise that you do not feel like you can ride your bike on a public road without avoiding an accident.

I wouldn't ride if I didn't feel like I could ride on a public road without avoiding an accident. Before I cancelled the insurance on the car (because I have only driven 600kms in 10 months) I had a very happy insurance company because I gave them money and claimed none back (apart from twice last year, but they could get the money back from the other party in both cases).

If you paid attention to my posts in this thread you would be aware of situations when you have to replace your vehicle at your cost or on your insurance through no fault of your own.
Here are some more examples:
Your bike is stolen & never recovered.
Someone drives into your parked bike and then drives away, no witnesses.
You hit diesel or oil on the road and go down.
A mechanical failure causes you to crash.

Insurance would cover all of these and unlike Max I cannot afford to self-insure.

[cowboyz]

Your bike is stolen & never recovered.

covered with fire and theft insurance. so why the comprehense cover?

Someone drives into your parked bike and then drives away, no witnesses.

granted. So to paraphase you are saying that you park your bike in an area where the likelyhood of someone causing damage more than your excess and not taking responsibility for it is high enough that you choose to pay a 3rd party to cover the cost of that damage

You hit diesel or oil on the road and go down.

Again, you do not feel it is possible to ride on public roads without running into a diesel or oil spill resulting in an accident.

A mechanical failure causes you to crash.
This is a shocker and falls into another gripe of mine. Above insurance should be compedancy in maintainance, or at the very least, trust in a good mechanic to avoid mechanical failures. But you are saying that there is a chance your bike can have a mechanical failure resulting in an accident.
Insurance would cover all of these and unlike Max I cannot afford to self-insure.

inline responses above. For what I can see, we actually agree. You just dont like the idea that insurance is by definition, passing the buck.

[MarkH]

inline responses above. For what I can see, we actually agree. You just dont like the idea that insurance is by definition, passing the buck.

Insurance is by definition: a form of risk management primarily used to hedge against the risk of a contingent loss.
Spreading risk is not the same thing as passing the buck.

I feel that it is possible to ride on public roads without running into a diesel or oil spill resulting in an accident.
I also feel that it is possible to ride on public roads WITH running into a diesel or oil spill resulting in an accident.

Because I am too poor to cover the cost of a new bike I spread the risk by contracting an insurance company to accept a $500 yearly fee and in return pay me if something bad happens and my bike is damaged. It's like a gamble, they will pay out 14 to 1 if I have an accident and I lose my $500 bet if I don't. This is not unlike the fishing villagers that could not feed their family if their boat was destroyed in a storm, so if a boat was destroyed the entire village would replace it, in return the others would receive the same generosity if it were there own boat destroyed.

The principals of insurance are well understood by most people, though some are in a position of being able to self-insure. This is a concept whereby the person keeps the value of the premium each year and should they suffer a loss due to theft/accident/whatever then they pay their own costs to replace the vehicle. If you have an accident seldom enough then this is actually cheaper - as long as you can cover the large cost if/when you have to.

[Owl]

jepps we live in a cynical world. One would hope that is particular case is not the norm but sometimes you got to stand up and argue the point. Because the above BMW driver didnt want to take responisibilty for her own actions shouldnt be an argument for insurance, it should be an argument for taking responsibility for ones actions.

That's an extreme case and not the norm. Even we in the trade were a little gob smacked at the final figure. Not as much as the girls father though when he came in to have a look at the damage. It was he who told us about the crash scene and solicitor.

I hope you don't mind me correcting your post!

Was the girl on a bike?

Car I believe Max, though not 100% sure.