Flags, colours, and their use

[quickbuck]

I know it seems I'm haviung a go at him but I'm not. I'm just trying to tell people who weren't there what he did wrong, why the red flags were used and all that shit.
Really, he's been talked to by the Steward so that's the end of the actual problem. Everything else here is just dicussion on how to deal with similar in the future.

Hope you get it sorted and we'll see you at the next round. (Paint some leaky oil marks on the side - that'll wind everyone up! )

Na, realise you aren't having a go at him.... Just want to clarify that due to what ever reason the rider had no idea that the bike was PUMPING out oil...

He is new... and will learn FAST! That is a promise.

Yes, a talking to by the Steward... Understatement.... And, true, end of the matter really. Is a good learnng point for ALL, I agree.

The oil streek paint scheme... Now that is an idea.......

He will be back, just need some more support from the team.... Oh, and it would help if the bike turned up a bit earlier than Friday Night before race day for the maintenance required
Neil wasn't really too impressed, and Lee was wondering why his 600 wouldn't start (Blaming battery when the kill switch was in the O.F.F. Position...... )
So I ran away before the tension got too much....

Will see if I get time to look at the FZR tomorrow.

[MSTRS:Me]

Okay, I'll say it Again.....

He honestly thought it was a loose peg.

You have it, he wasn't going at race pace because flags were coming out all over the place.

No idea that he had dumped oil everywhere.

Also not 'having a go'...but...with all the flags and arm waving/pointing etc (at least at our station) what do you suggest we marshalls could have done to make our intentions absolutely clear?

[Kickaha]

what do you suggest we marshalls could have done to make our intentions absolutely clear?

Take a gun and shoot offending riders off their bike

[FROSTY:Me]

Ok folks quite honestly had the cheif steward given me that kinda reaming one of two things would have happened. I woulda bitten right on back at him. OR I just wouldn't have come back

[PirateJafa]

Also not 'having a go'...but...with all the flags and arm waving/pointing etc (at least at our station) what do you suggest we marshalls could have done to make our intentions absolutely clear?

Bought some black flags, to be honest.

From reading all the views in this thread, it sure doesn't look like it's the rider's fault. Red flags coming out everywhere (from his view) - right, time to slow down and head back to the pits.

If you don't have the necessary flags, or the rules do not allow you to use them out at your stations, then accept that, don't push the blame on the rider, and instead bring it up at the next MNZ meeting. Or push it through some other means if you want a more urgent reform - it's up to you to show the initiative here.

[scrivy]

As I said previously, we have a flag that can be used right now for this cause. The yellow flag.
But once the yellow is displayed, how does the rider know what it is for?? He has to slow down and look around!! Sidecar riders could have lost a passenger, or solos could have bits/fluids coming from their machine.
Come on everyone - when a yellow flag is displayed, NO ONE CAN OVERTAKE YOU!!!! SO SLOW DOWN AND OBSERVE YOUR SURROUNDINGS!!
If you go through a patch of oil on the track and crash, whos fault is it if you'd been shown a flag prior to it???? Most people have the misconstrued idea that all you have to do is slow down slightly - I've seen this time and time again.
FFS!! Why am I having to slow down?? What are the perceived dangers I'm about to be confronted with?? Is there a rabbit about to cross the track?? How would I know if I hadn't looked around - this should also clearly mean observing the marshalls - afterall, they are the eyes and ears for you the racers - so by all means, if they are waving arms etc, then FFS, go to walking speed if you have to and LOOK everywhere - including yourself!! Marshalls aren't just there as ornaments - they are there to be observed!!

Yellow: Held Stationary – SLOW DOWN – Proceed with caution. No overtaking until danger area is passed. Sidecar riders-this could also mean your passenger is in difficulties.

Yellow: Waved – SLOW DOWN NOW – Proceed with extreme caution. No overtaking until the danger area is passed, be prepared to stop.

The above examples are pretty clear really. Maybe it should just include - TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR MACHINE ALSO!

[MSTRS:Me]

Take a gun and shoot offending riders ...

Bought some black flags, to be honest...

As I said previously, we have a flag that can be used right now for this cause. The yellow flag.

So...no real idea as to what we could have done at the time. As I said much earlier, this was a rare case...I've never been involved in trying to get a bike stopped and off the track before, although I guess it does happen sometimes.
Perhaps marshalls do indeed need a greater range of flags to use?

[Kickaha]

[I]Yellow: Held Stationary – SLOW DOWN – Proceed with caution. No overtaking until danger area is passed. Sidecar riders-this could also mean your passenger is in difficulties.

Divvo would have that one waved at him pretty much full time then

[scrivy]

Divvo would have that one waved at him pretty much full time then

Physical or mental............????

[scrivy]

So...no real idea as to what we could have done at the time. As I said much earlier, this was a rare case...I've never been involved in trying to get a bike stopped and off the track before, although I guess it does happen sometimes.
Perhaps marshalls do indeed need a greater range of flags to use?

It never ceases to amaze me, that most riders think the yellow flag is always for someone else!
Remember - a yellow flag could be because of you!

A sidecar rider MUST look to see if his passenger has fallen off.

Proceed with extreme caution - means just that - slow down - look at the track condition, track obstacles or indeed if your machine is capable of continuing.

I'll PMSL at the day there is an earthquake and the track opens up and swallows people whole!!
'Oh - I thought the yellow flag was 'cause someone else was in trouble.....'

It's all about self ownership!

[Kickaha]

It never ceases to amaze me, that most riders think the yellow flag is always for someone else!
Remember - a yellow flag could be because of you!

Good point, although normally A yellow would be waved to indicate it is something past the flag point displaying the flag

I've always worked out when it was for me as I've been lying on the track with a bike on top of me

[scrivy]

I've always worked out when it was for me as I've been lying on the track with a bike on top of me

Oh, so you go for the other one on top position?.........

[ajturbo]

Also not 'having a go'...but...with all the flags and arm waving/pointing etc (at least at our station) what do you suggest we marshalls could have done to make our intentions absolutely clear?

i will now be INCLUDING the 250 riders in my extra riders breif...

unfortunately i ASSUMED that as they were riding in a "faster" (cough) class, that they were more experienced...

AJ was wrong...

but luckily we can sort this out!!!!

[FROSTY:Me]

Sorry you tricycle guys you really are missing the point.
What was needed was a flag that said clearly -GET THE FUCK OFF THE TRACK NOW. -- no not later NOW I'll stand corrected but I think the concequences of oil on the track are a bit less dire for you guys than it is for a solo hitting an oil slick mid corner. Regardless of personal responsibility even at half pace oil is still bad news to hit.
Not only that but the whole furrrore really is about the 45 minutes raceing was stopped for whilst the oil was cleaned up.
I stand behind my origonal suggestion --that being KISS.
Black flag waved at you means STOP and leave the track.

[quickbuck]

Also not 'having a go'...but...with all the flags and arm waving/pointing etc (at least at our station) what do you suggest we marshalls could have done to make our intentions absolutely clear?

Well, actually knowing the rider, I would have tapped 2 fingers of my right hand on my left shoulder, and then tapped my head....... with a fist shake in front of my face.
Again, everybody is going WTF? You military guys are weird.

That signal identifies his rank, and the head tap is "Come Here", and the fist shake is "On the Double".

Truth is we live a life of limited comms and hand signals, so there you go....

Using out hand signals will make an MNZ licence a 3 week course, and 2 years of on the job training, and riders brief will be an hour!!!!
And that is just the Comms section!!!

Of course this all means you have to get the rider to look at you... If they are not looking at marshal posts, at least with peripheral vision, then quite rightly they shouldn't really be out there....