I've been thinking...

[Katman]

In case you missed it, I am talking about safety and reducing accidents primarily,

Motorcycle accident stats would plummet if motorcyclists stopped riding in a manner that makes them an accident waiting to happen.

[dipshit]

In case you missed it, I am talking about safety and reducing accidents primarily, along with the differences between learned skills and God given ones and if that makes a difference.

Exactly. The skills of reading the road and any possible dangers ahead and having enough self-control to ride accordingly are far more important than what many around here seem to think constitutes a good rider. Ironically the second group in the vids are the very people that think they are the best in the world because they think they have all the skills and natural abilities.

This is more about attitude and road craft skills more than anything else.

[Motu]

An interesting analogy,and one I have often thought of myself - I see a jazz or rock musician doing a solo,their eyes are closed and the music is just pouring out of them through the instrument,fingers flying,just knowing where to go to find the next note.I feel this is sometimes how I ride a motorcycle,on or off road - I know not what I am doing,my body moves,flicks through gears,the throttle and brakes go on and off,the bike flicks from side to side,I know instinctively when to do what,how much,and how fast....and also how much I can push it until things go wrong.It's exhilarating...and I suspect I am not alone in riding like this.

My wife has serious musical talent,it's just ''in'' her.She can play any instrument she picks up,and just knows the theoretical side of music inside and out.She can sight read unknown music,and transpose it to her clarinet as she goes.Yet if you ask her to just ''play'' something she cant,she needs the written stuff.Her brothers all play....but she can't ''jam'' with them,doesn't know how to do it.She was taught how to ride at a riding school,and is technically a good rider,and yet it all seems to be mechanical to her - she can't ''jam'' on a motorcycle.

Back to how far we have got off topic - I don't think there is an answer.You can teach someone before they ride,or if they survive....teach them after they have learned.In the end they will be the rider they were always going to be.

[mossy1200]

ACC figures would change a lot if motocross guys didnt fill nature of accident as motorvehicle ,motorcycle.More cross guys go on acc than road riders but road riders pay the acc cost section in their regos.

[Mom]

ACC figures would change a lot if motocross guys didnt fill nature of accident as motorvehicle ,motorcycle.More cross guys go on acc than road riders but road riders pay the acc cost section in their regos.

Really? Where have you gleaned that information from? Serious question here.

[Mom]

An interesting analogy,and one I have often thought of myself - I see a jazz or rock musician doing a solo,their eyes are closed and the music is just pouring out of them through the instrument,fingers flying,just knowing where to go to find the next note.I feel this is sometimes how I ride a motorcycle,on or off road - I know not what I am doing,my body moves,flicks through gears,the throttle and brakes go on and off,the bike flicks from side to side,I know instinctively when to do what,how much,and how fast....and also how much I can push it until things go wrong.It's exhilarating...and I suspect I am not alone in riding like this.

My wife has serious musical talent,it's just ''in'' her.She can play any instrument she picks up,and just knows the theoretical side of music inside and out.She can sight read unknown music,and transpose it to her clarinet as she goes.Yet if you ask her to just ''play'' something she cant,she needs the written stuff.Her brothers all play....but she can't ''jam'' with them,doesn't know how to do it.She was taught how to ride at a riding school,and is technically a good rider,and yet it all seems to be mechanical to her - she can't ''jam'' on a motorcycle.

Back to how far we have got off topic - I don't think there is an answer.You can teach someone before they ride,or if they survive....teach them after they have learned.In the end they will be the rider they were always going to be.

Not off topic at all mate. Thank you for hearing the analogy so clearly. So she cant jam eh? Is jamming that important in the big picture do you think?

[mossy1200]

When i snaped my thumb(a long time ago now).I went to hospital and because i couldnt hold the pen the nurse filled out the forms.She ticked motorvehicle accident and wrote motorcyle on the acc form.When i tried to explain it was off road she told me that it was still the same thing.

Things might have changed now but i would assume that since you cant get revenue from an off road vehicle(tax them)then it will still fall into the road user acc figures.i might be incorrect.Would pay to ask the X riders if they have had similar experience with forms more recently.

Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups.
So I could be wrong....
There is three unregistered bikes for every registered bike in NZ and they cause a lot of broken bodies.

when you look at acc form and it says nature of accident and you tick motorvehicle and then when it asks type of vehicle and you tick motorcycle.Which direction do you think that file is pushed????

[mnkyboy]

I've been thinking

How dare you....

I don't think Maha signed on for that

/runs

[beyond]

Trouble is the ACC stats are crowded with off road incidents, four wheel bike incidents, farmbike incidents and all of them go against our stats

Mom... you are right both times. Good riders are those who constantly learn and improve and are teachable but a lot of natural talent comes into play here too.

Some people can study and practice forever and they might never attain the skills of a good natural rider.

Modern machines are very quick when they are given a bit of throttle so smoothness is the first key but smoothness is no good if people do not look well ahead and even if they look well ahead, it means nothing without good reflexes and so we go around the bush

[Crisis management]

Really? Where have you gleaned that information from? Serious question here.

My experience....35 years of road riding (except the times I missed the road) and a shit load of luck mean no accidents where I injured myself enough to require treatment but 18 months of trail riding and so far it's 2 cracked ribs, two well tweaked knees and a seriously sprained ankle. Now I didn't claim ACC for any of them either, but I think he may have a bit of a point there, everytime I go near a trail ride I can guarantee an ambulance gets involved at least once and quite often in a fairly dramatic way.

As for the actual topic, I'm a simple bloke, I just ride bikes, fall off and have a bit of a laugh, cerebal stuff I will leave to others.

[Mom]

Mom... you are right both times. Good riders are those who constantly learn and improve and are teachable but a lot of natural talent comes into play here too.

Modern machines are very quick when they are given a bit of throttle so smoothness is the first key but smoothness is no good if people do not look well ahead and even if they look well ahead, it means nothing without good reflexes and so we go around the bush

So how do we instill these techniques in the young/old/BAB's and show we are actually not a bunch of hoons, despite the apparent video evidence on the web supporting this premise?

[RantyDave]

Surely we should all be taking lessons?

You mean, getting bikers to admit that they're not perfect? Have we been on the same KB all this time or do you have a special one that only has honest people with insane powers of self awareness?

What do you play? FWIW I used to play piano to a reasonable level and never read the music.

Dave

[Grahameeboy]

But in the context of the OP, of SAFETY and NOT crashing we don't WANT to teach the slow rider who never crashes to go faster. If he never crashes, that's all good.

What we need to do is teach the fast rider who crashes a lot how to stop crashing. Which may, or may not, involve persuading him to go slower.

This is the trouble with all discussions like this, they get hijacked by the racers into a good rider = fast rider paradigm.

So you advocate that speed is the issue then..not confirmed by LTSA stats

[Grahameeboy]

So how do we instill these techniques in the young/old/BAB's and show we are actually not a bunch of hoons, despite the apparent video evidence on the web supporting this premise?

Take them on a Maha ride of course...
MotorcyclistsAgainstHooningAround

[Maha]

Take them on a Maha ride of course...
MotorcyclistsAgainstHooningAround

You want a T-Shirt???.....