How I ride is perceived by others...

[mister.koz]

I am quite often in and out of cars to get away from them. I think the more distance i have on them the better. I am not talking about 200km/h in town on one wheel flipping the bird, just getting around and away when time and safety permit.

The idiot label is subjective because the average jo driving home in his cage, pootling along without a thought or fear of anything may perceve me as an idiot because i zipped out past him where no car could/would.

I think it comes down to perception. Out on the open road with riders that i trust is where i let the bike out. If someone was standing on the side of the road, the roar of 5 or more sports bikes at speed would seem unnecessary and we would all look like idiots. They have no idea that this is our playground and when we encounter other traffic we slow down and pass where we can.

I usually think of all other vehicles on the road as idiots, its saved my skin a few times because i was right 0.5% of the time. But i still let people in and i still give room for not only other people's margin of error but my own. If someone makes a mistake you can't really bullocks them like they are evil and it was intended.

The other day there was a guy in a ute doing 60 in an 80, traffic locked up both ways. When i came up behind him he intentionally moved right so i couldn't sneak past... he was an idiot... sure enough when there was a safe place to pass i did and he was fuming, poor guy, imagine driving 20k under the limit and having a (fairly powerful) vehicle passing you in a safe place... oh the shame.

When i am in a cage or on the bike and a quicker vehicle comes up behind me, i give them plenty of room. Hell they're either way more skilled than me or they are going to drive off the next corner, i'd rather not be a part of either...

In the thick of it i reckon that the key to it is courtesy, if everyone on the road was doing their own thing and playing nice and polite around each other then i think things would be safer/better but thats a happy fuzzy bunny land idea, fact is people are tied up in their own reality and thus have a completely different perception.

Its not really anthing to do with the law because as sidewinder said, people can be idiots well within the legal limits.

[Nagash]

You should do a defensive driving course. You will see things a lot differently.

A good racer does not make a good driver. It would be fine if they developed their skills on the track, and then travelled on the road well within them, but that is not what happens at all.

Couple of points, I have done a defensive driving course, along with a couple of other driving courses. But that's of little relevance,

At no point did I say a good racer makes a *good* driver,

What I said was someone who is more likely to get themselves into the situation of a potential accident, is more likely going to learn sooner or later, how to get themselves out of it.

I say that considering that the way they drive is a passion or a hobby to them, so they seek to improve their ability in that field. Whether it's by doing courses, practicing on the track, even mucking about in a car park. It all helps.

[MadDuck]

I have to say though, I favour loud pipes! Not obnoxiously loud ones mind, the straight ones that flatten grass 2 sections down the road when you fire up are not cool IMO, but a bit of good, loud, crisp noise is one of the best things a bike can have. At least they hear you even if they dont see you

you referring to me ah? LMAO nah honestly a lot of car drivers are not only blind but they are also deaf as I have discovered.

Some times before overtaking I think to myself would I do this if the Ginger cop was watching

This is often what I think when its right on the limit. You know the annoying times when on the main highway you have come up on Granny and when you go to overtake this Granny finally finds the acclerator and works out what the speed limit is.

Thus meaing overtaking will mean exceeding the speed limit enough to incur an infringement if Mr Plod is around the corner.

[bogan]

...
The cool thing I have discovered about bikes is, very very quickly after some twat gets angry with me and decides to take have a go at me on the road - I am already long gone!! LOL. Then they can reconcile their feelings with their actions at their own pace - nothing to do with me. Maybe they can beat their mrs up or something, but its not my problem.
...

The fact that you can be gone very quickly does not change the fact that youve added to the road rage out there, and made someone more angry at bikers (we probably all get lumpted together). The fast get-away factor with bikes does not give us carte blanch to act as we like, and karma is very difficult to outrun.

[wysper]

Simply put , and idiot is one who "endangers" others, regardless of what they are doing, there are plenty of idiots in the world..

I don't think it is as simple as that. Using Mom's example of zipping past the corrolla - maybe scaring the shit out of the old lady. Dangerous.

Say I was driving the corolla. Checked my mirrors, saw mom comming, so when she zipped passed I was not surprised. Not dangerous. So because you don't know who the other road user is or what their mental state is, fears are etc. It is pretty hard to judge the danger or stupidity of a given act.

In the thick of it i reckon that the key to it is courtesy, if everyone on the road was doing their own thing and playing nice and polite around each other then i think things would be safer/better but thats a happy fuzzy bunny land idea, fact is people are tied up in their own reality and thus have a completely different perception.
.

And that could be it. Something as simple as courtesy which seems absent in so many areas of society these days.

Maybe you need not to judge a situation by your standard but by a more common courtesy standard. Pretty difficult to define I would say. And would not be welcomed by many.

I think I ride courteously, but I am sure I have passed people who thought the pass was dangerous. Went past people on the side of the road who thought my bike was too loud. Parked my bike somewhere that someone thought I was obnoxious and rude.

Stupid is often in the eye of the beholder, and in this instance, you are not that beholder.

[MSTRS:Me]

...fact is people are tied up in their own reality and thus have a completely different perception.

And that is why the term 'idiot' is mostly subjective.

A wee story...
My wife was in the passenger seat of my father's car, acting as guide. They came up to a T intersection and stopped prior to turning right. There was no-one coming from the right, but to the left there is a curved bridge less than 100m away. If there is a vehicle coming into view on the bridge, there is not enough time for the vehicle turning right to pull out first. So...there was a Harley coming over the bridge, my father presumeably didn't see it and pulled out. The HD rider flicked right to avoid him, and flipped him the finger with his left hand as he went past. My father says "Look at that idiot, he'll lose his arm riding like that". My wife says "He's lucky he didn't lose his life, the way you pulled out on him".

Objectively, my father was the idiot. But...
Subjectively, my wife was an idiot for getting in the car with him. The biker was an idiot (cos I don't think he had his light on). The engineer who designed that intersection was an idiot for placing it so close to a blind approach from the left.

The term 'cager' is perfect to describe my father. He has been driving for some 60+ years. I believe he's had one accident in his life. Which was not his fault. BUT...I shudder to think of what 'carnage' he has left in his wake, since he is oblivious to so much of what goes on around him. And nothing will ever convince him that he is the idiot. Because, to him, his driving 'record' speaks for itself...

[davebullet]

A simple test.. would you do it if a cop was following you?

If so - then the person observing has the issue (the old lady / corolla example). If not - you have the issue.

Notice I mentioned a cop following you... .not whether it was legal. Often people will be better behaved when the law is present - moreso than the law requires.

The other test for idiocy is whether consideration for other road users flashes through your mind BEFORE your maneouvre (not an oh shit that was close, or I got away with it AFTER the maneouvre).

[CookMySock]

A simple test.. would you do it if a cop was following you?

I don't think that is a good test. Many people revert to squeaky-clean behaviour when followed by the fuzz. I usually hurtle around like a low-level bomber, but turn into a nana when followed by the cops. I wonder why?

The fact that you can be gone very quickly does not change the fact that youve added to the road rage out there, and made someone more angry at bikers (we probably all get lumpted together). The fast get-away factor with bikes does not give us carte blanch to act as we like, and karma is very difficult to outrun.

These people get angry at things in general anyway. You can't fix them and you can't prevent it. Stop trying. The only thing you can do is not be there.

Steve

[Fatjim]

An idiot to me is someone who thinks painting double yellow lines on the Rimutukas is going to

a. Stop twits crossing the centre line on blind corners
b. Stop idiots from crossing the centreline cause they are going to fast.
c. Stop bikes from overtaking when its safe to do so.

[Fatjim]

I usually hurtle around like a low-level bomber...

Steve

Doesn't that make the Ice cream curdle?

[mowgli]

And that is why the term 'idiot' is mostly subjective.

[snip]

Objectively, my father was the idiot. But...
Subjectively, my wife was an idiot for getting in the car with him. The biker was an idiot (cos I don't think he had his light on). The engineer who designed that intersection was an idiot for placing it so close to a blind approach from the left.

If you're being objective then technically the rider was also an idiot for taking the corner at such a speed that he couldn't stop in the clear road ahead thus necessitating an evasive manoeuvre.

I know of a driver who pulled out in similar circumstances to your father (was a blind rise not a corner). The approaching car braked heavily and a rear ender ensued. The cops measured the skid marks and determined that the other guy was travelling too fast for how far he could see and that the turning driver could not possibly have seen him to give way. The non-turning driver was found at fault.

Lesson: If you come over a blind rise to find a vehicle turning into your path, don't brake

[EnzoYug]

For me it's pretty simple. Talk to cagers. (win hearts and minds)

At the gas station open the door and hold it for others, wave, say hi to people, SMILE DAMMIT. When lane splitting and someone makes a hole for you or opens a gap, give them a little wave.

All these things change the impression you give motorists.

Because people are not their actions - but if someone doesn't know Who You Are then they can judge you only on your actions. I judge someone I don't know on the information available to me. Those I see acting like a dick head, are dick heads.

Chances are good however that the one dodgy overtaking manoeuvre was just that - one, isolated manoeuvre. If cagers know us to be an otherwise rather friendly bunch of motorists then they'll be less likely to hold single, maybe foolish actions against us.


Usual Caveat: If you ride like a complete fuckwit then good luck with that, all the best to your family etc...

[slofox]

I am sure some people think I am a loon when I overtake a truck and trailer unit on the highway - you all know the drill - he's at 95km/hr and there's a line up behind him.

You can't really pass these guys at 100km/hr without being on the wrong side of the road for about two hours...so you chop it down and crank it past. (Well, I do anyway...hehehe)

When I do this, I am usually pretty quickly back down to a reasonable speed after getting clear of the truck unit. I am with mister.koz on this - I like to ride in space. Can't stand being in a wolf-pack, on the bike OR in the cage. Stats would suggest that more accidents happen there than when you are in a space.

In general I try to be pretty safe on the bike - I am too old now to fall off without busting stuff. Besides I might scratch the bike...

My general rule is whether or not I embarrass myself. If I think I am a loon, then I probably am...and it happens often enough to keep me on my toes.

[bogan]

These people get angry at things in general anyway. You can't fix them and you can't prevent it. Stop trying. The only thing you can do is not be there.

Of course there are people like this, but I can't tell the difference between people who want to get angry, and those who generally take offence. So I err on the side of courtesy, has the advantage that no-one trys to run me off the road!

An idiot to me is someone who thinks painting double yellow lines on the Rimutukas is going to

a. Stop twits crossing the centre line on blind corners
b. Stop idiots from crossing the centreline cause they are going to fast.
c. Stop bikes from overtaking when its safe to do so.

Well it will on rainy days, double yellow is twice the amount of ridiculously slippery road surface.

For me it's pretty simple. Talk to cagers. (win hearts and minds)

At the gas station open the door and hold it for others, wave, say hi to people, SMILE DAMMIT. When lane splitting and someone makes a hole for you or opens a gap, give them a little wave.

All these things change the impression you give motorists.

Excellent point, its not just the on road behaviour people judge you for.

[FROSTY:Me]

One little reality check. EVERY biker I know from a total novice to the rossi's of this world is or has been at one time that idiot we shake our heads at. Theres that monment you think back on and go "shit that was dumb"
Most of the time we "get away with it".
I've always though the measure of the man is how he reacts when he's stuffed up.