Sue Bradford has pulled the pin

**James Deuce** · 26th September 2009, 17:54

Originally Posted by mynameis

What do you think has impacted or will have more impact in our society, 18 19 year olds drinking till they are plastered and causing trouble and crippling our health system or the anti smacking laws?

I don't know about you, but I was doing that quite happily without any regard for the legislation of the time. The concept was to decriminalise those darn young people in the workforce and studying at University.

I see no change in NZ society's attitude to alcohol over the last 20 years. If anything those darn young people drink less than they did in my day because they have access to better quality, less addictive drugs.

**mynameis** · 26th September 2009, 18:06

Originally Posted by James Deuce

I don't know about you, but I was doing that quite happily without any regard for the legislation of the time. The concept was to decriminalise those darn young people in the workforce and studying at University.

I see no change in NZ society's attitude to alcohol over the last 20 years. If anything those darn young people drink less than they did in my day because they have access to better quality, less addictive drugs.

People can waffle on about the soft side of this topic (maybe another thread)

But stats clearly show raise in alcohol related issues amongst the youth since the law change.

**short-circuit** · 26th September 2009, 18:32

Originally Posted by mynameis

But stats clearly show raise in alcohol related issues amongst the youth since the law change.

Two questions:

Who's your dealer?

Where will I find them?

**mynameis** · 26th September 2009, 20:06

Originally Posted by short-circuit

Two questions:

Who's your dealer?

Where will I find them?

I think you've lost contact of your own dealer muppet.

**Lias** · 26th September 2009, 22:03

Originally Posted by short-circuit

You're the racist with the bald head and the hard rightwing views .... You're also the pussy complaining to the mods that I'm threatening to give you the seeing to you deserve .... you pathetic little pseudo-nazi

*shrug* I'm not afraid of some internet warrior calling me names or threatening to punch my head in, but it was a pretty blatent breach of the site rules so I reported it.

Originally Posted by short-circuit

He'd be in the same category as Graham (police prosecutor / upright christian / child molestor) Capill

See we can agree on some things..

**oldrider** · 26th September 2009, 23:28

Originally Posted by James Deuce

I don't know about you, but I was doing that quite happily without any regard for the legislation of the time. The concept was to decriminalise those darn young people in the workforce and studying at University.

I see no change in NZ society's attitude to alcohol over the last 20 years. If anything those darn young people drink less than they did in my day because they have access to better quality, less addictive drugs.

The bloody media circus condemns "all" young people as "boozers and wasters", when it is really only a "small percentage of them" that are causing the drunken chaos!

Current media policy: "Keep repeating lies until they become accepted as fact"!

Why punish the majority for the sins of the few?

Leave the law the way it is and punish or educate the offenders!

I believe the majority of young people have got it right, so lets give them our support!

**Brian d marge** · 27th September 2009, 00:12

Originally Posted by oldrider

The bloody media circus condemns "all" young people as "boozers and wasters", when it is really only a "small percentage of them" that are causing the drunken chaos!

Current media policy: "Keep repeating lies until they become accepted as fact"!

Why punish the majority for the sins of the few?

Leave the law the way it is and punish or educate the offenders!

I believe the majority of young people have got it right, so lets give them our support!

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Plato attributes Socrates with that quote

Stephen

**James Deuce** · 27th September 2009, 00:17

Originally Posted by mynameis

People can waffle on about the soft side of this topic (maybe another thread)

But stats clearly show raise in alcohol related issues amongst the youth since the law change.

The moment you try to make a point with the phrase "stats" in it you need to ask a bunch of questions, chief amongst them is: Has the way information is collected changed in regard to the topic over a period of time?

The answer in the this case is an emphatic yes.

In my day, bouncers called you a cab, the cops told your folks to come get you, or asked your mates to get you home. The incidence of serious alcohol related incidents hasn't changed. How it is handled and recorded has.

I'm not making a moral judgement either.

**bikemike** · 27th September 2009, 00:39

There is more to the Bradford bill than telling poor kiwi battlers, against their will, how to raise their kids.

The fact is, that our well-being is predicated on a society that is well, happy, confident, educated, employable, sustainably employed and productive. So our social, environmental and economic lives are as one. It is part of what it means to be 'green' to have an interest in all those things. It completely misses the point to argue that 'greens' should stick to the environment. Should National stick to trading and making money?

The economic benefits of spending to support families to raise their kids free from abuse is said by some to be one of the best ROI a state can obtain.

Bradford's bill was but one small measure attempting to push things towards an understanding that the unnecessary hardening of a child's mind will cost the child, the parents, the society as a whole. And Bradford herself was a small albeit prominent part in the whole process. We cannot live peacefully unless we can raise kids who think that it is possible to live a valued and fruitful life. We are trying to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, but it has to be done. Otherwise we all become taxed and demeaned by the damage done through abuse and poverty.

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/time...lation-2936192

general rant on other posts...
How should we not think it part of the common man's domain to be well educated? You don't need to be an academic or an intellectual to see and value the benefit of education. Why would you want to remain ignorant? Why is it so cool to be suspicious of education?

Without MMP, or Protesting, the absolutely equally valuable voices of those that get sliced off by FFP would never be heard. All credit to those with spine enough to protest, to a free society, and to MMP - or better. Without these we just have mob rule. There be dragons, not just Chinese.

I do not agree with Turei's move posted, on racially based parallel legal systems - if there's a case to be made that the system is not working, it's not working for lots of sectors in lots of ways.

I hear only good things about Clendon and that's heartening. The bile on here however is depressing - regardless of the point of view held, even accounting for the fact this is a mere BB.

**klingon** · 27th September 2009, 14:02

Originally Posted by rainman

Um, the profile may not be a complete description. I couldn't possibly say whether another, non-scooter two-wheeled vehicle, f'rinstance a sportsbike, may or may not be involved in this story.

...

Originally Posted by Ixion

Indeed. An SV1000S might or might not be involved in the story

I have it on good authority that there are several other bikes in his immediate family apart from the SV. For example a TL1000, a DL1000, a GSX750 (and several scooters of various pedigrees). Hmmm... I'm beginning to wonder if Mr Suzuki might have contributed to his campaign fund.

Do you think it's too early to start lobbying him? I'm thinking a couple of private member's bills...

Car-free day on the Coro Loop every sunny sunday
Lane splitting in city traffic not just legal but mandatory for all two-wheeled vehicles

**klingon** · 27th September 2009, 18:45

Hmmm... apparently our latest KB-MP-In-Waiting spent the day avoiding his responsibilities by doing the Coro Loop with a bunch of friends. He rides with a couple of SV1000s, a TLS, an Anniversary model Daytona, a modded R1, and a GS1200.

So if that line up went by any of you, I hope you waved!

**oldrider** · 27th September 2009, 20:26

Originally Posted by Brian d'marge

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Plato attributes Socrates with that quote

Stephen

True!

Well, in my opinion there is nothing wrong with the majority of our youth of today, tomorrow or any other day for that matter!

What is wrong is the agenda of the media and the people that control (apparent) world opinion!

Older generations work their guts out to give their children better education and all the things that they themselves never had!

When their children succeed in achieving their parents objectives, they are roundly condemned by the very generation that gave them the opportunity!

Who are the ones who are really confused in this world!

I'm backing the young ones, they are the future, God bless them and deliver them from the cunts of the past!

**Patrick** · 28th September 2009, 11:53

Originally Posted by Pussy

I think you'll find the door smacked her face on the wayIN

Re-posted for truth and accuracy...., and because it was blardy hillarious.......

Originally Posted by mynameis

.......There are provisions/exceptions in the law mate. A little tap on your kids hands won't put you in jail.

That was the perception.

Nothing has actually changed. A smack on the hand/bum was always OK. Taking to them with lumps of 4 x 2 was never OK.

Jenny Shipley initiated the idea/bill of reducing the drinking age to 18 back in 98 or 99. No one seems to be hammering National/Jenny Shipley for that.

What do you think has impacted or will have more impact in our society, 18 19 year olds drinking till they are plastered and causing trouble and crippling our health system or the anti smacking laws?

Watch this space. Talk of raising it again is on the air............. and the referendum on the smacking was overwhelming. But then, so too was the harsher penalties and longer sentencing referendum when Labour got into power last time.