ACC campaign, are we barking up the wrong tree?

**White trash** · 14th October 2009, 18:17

I see everyone's all up in arms about this, and I can see why. Massive increases are hard to swallow, it hurts. But it's really simple maths. (Fuck this is going to make me unpopular)

ACC is running at a HUGE deficite. Massive. Something has to be done, a number of changes have been suggested by the government.

They've obviously worked out motorcycles cost more to rehabilitate and suffer worse injuries than other road users. And riders of bigger bikes suffer more than riders of small bikes.

So can somebody explain to me rationaly WHY we shouldn't be paying higher levies?

I'm also beginning to think riders of race bikes and dirt bikes should have to pay a levy for each visit to the track or trail. This could potentially lower the road bikes rates at the same time.

**Cynic** · 14th October 2009, 18:23

I agree with you in principle but many of us have more than one vehicle. Personally I have three registered vehilces. I don't see why the class of vehicle should attract the ACC levy. I have a license as do many others. I don't see why I can't be billed based on my license classes, base rate for the license plus $X for class 1, $X for class 6 so on and so forth. The method of delivery of this is screwed too, 126 - 600 cc costing $500 ? Sub 126 costing $250... this groups a GN250 with a GSXR600... bizarre....

**MadDuck** · 14th October 2009, 18:25

Originally Posted by White trash

So can somebody explain to me rationaly WHY we shouldn't be paying higher levies?

Obviously I cannot speak for the masses but personally I remember going for life and health insurance a while back.

The insurance company outright said "We do not cover SCUBA divers going beyond 30 metres". I was able to say hey look I am an instructor including an instructor of learners going to beyond 30 metres with an experienced person.

They said Ok...that reduces the risk. We see you are not irresponsible.

I cannot do this with ACC. They decide because my tank is 1200CC I am a high risk and have to pay $500 more a year. That SUCKS!

**Ragingrob** · 14th October 2009, 18:28

Could it not be done on an individual basis just like your bike insurance? Riders who crash more often and get injured will have to pay higher premiums for their personal ACC whereas riders who rarely crash get discounts?

**lostinflyz** · 14th October 2009, 18:29

Originally Posted by White trash

I see everyone's all up in arms about this, and I can see why. Massive increases are hard to swallow, it hurts. But it's really simple maths. (Fuck this is going to make me unpopular)

ACC is running at a HUGE deficite. Massive. Something has to be done, a number of changes have been suggested by the government.

They've obviously worked out motorcycles cost more to rehabilitate and suffer worse injuries than other road users. And riders of bigger bikes suffer more than riders of small bikes.

So can somebody explain to me rationaly WHY we shouldn't be paying higher levies?

I'm also beginning to think riders of race bikes and dirt bikes should have to pay a levy for each visit to the track or trail. This could potentially lower the road bikes rates at the same time.

there are problems with the system but making prices soo huge no one will bother paying is a bit foolish. Why do riders of bigger bikes suffer worse injuries??? i see plenty of scooter riders in jandels and short and no jacket all the time, and im sure they dont get hurt nearly as bad as a feller on a big bike with full protection.

Maybe there are bigger issues to raise than just injuries. maybe its smarter to look for ways to reduce injuries (mandatory riding gear??) and wisen everyone up a bit.

Track day riders i beleive do pay a levy each time. part of the MNZ permit and i beleive part of license fees.

**MSTRS:Me** · 14th October 2009, 18:31

I fully agree with your last line...
I'm not so sure about the rest.
The problem I have with the whole thing is that ACC is supposed to be a no-fault system of 'insurance' - and still touted as such - yet it is clearly 'user pays'. But the biggest users (Horse riders, cyclists, rugby (and other contact sport) players, etc pay little-to-no more than the average man in the street does out of his/her wages. What about hooking into them?
Secondly, NSW is apparently looking at a sliding scale of cover, dependent on the amount of protective gear bikers (choose to) wear. I've pushed that here in the past.
Thirdly, I can only use one vehicle at a time. What would be wrong with paying a seperate annual fee to ACC which I keep in my pocket, and covers me for any vehicle I use? Oh - that's right - would leave ACC short/er...never happen.
And lastly, if I have a history of NOT crashing and being hurt, why should I pay the same as Joe Squid who spends 2 months every year in hospital etc?

**Headbanger** · 14th October 2009, 18:33

Originally Posted by White trash

So can somebody explain to me rationaly WHY we shouldn't be paying higher levies?

Because others don't have to, Im told that Sports injuries are the most common in NZ, lets se them fuckers hit with some fees.

Then I'll be happy.

Might be a weak argument, But Im sticking with it. That aside, applying charges dependant on CC is bullshit, CC has zero relevance in regards to capabilities of the bike or rider. If thats the best they can come up with then it shows they shouldn't have the role they do.

**White trash** · 14th October 2009, 18:33

Originally Posted by MadDuck

Obviously I cannot speak for the masses but personally I remember going for life and health insurance a while back.

The insurance company outright said "We do not cover SCUBA divers going beyond 30 metres". I was able to say hey look I am an instructor including an instructor of learners going to beyond 30 metres with an experienced person.

They said Ok...that reduces the risk. We see you are not irresponsible.

I cannot do this with ACC. They decide because my tank is 1200CC I am a high risk and have to pay $500 more a year. That SUCKS!

So what do we do? One option would be to make insurance compulsary, then charge the acc levie on your insurance based on your previous history.

**sAsLEX** · 14th October 2009, 18:33

Originally Posted by White trash

They've obviously worked out motorcycles cost more to rehabilitate and suffer worse injuries than other road users. And riders of bigger bikes suffer more than riders of small bikes.

Rugby. Netball. Soccer. All played by hundreds of thousands every day in this country and have some fairly serious injuries that result.

How much does a 16 year quadriplegic cost ACC if he lives to 70 after a failed scrum?

Originally Posted by White trash

So can somebody explain to me rationaly WHY we shouldn't be paying higher levies?

I'm also beginning to think riders of race bikes and dirt bikes should have to pay a levy for each visit to the track or trail. This could potentially lower the road bikes rates at the same time.

I ride my off road bike not at a paying track.

Why this focus on vehicles? I hurt myself more often on my push bike!

Why do I pay multiple ACC levies across all my vehicles? Can I crash two at the same time? Does owning multiple vehicle increase my risk of injury to ACC?

**sleemanj** · 14th October 2009, 18:38

As I understand it, ACC's problems are largely paper based.

Investments have tanked leading up to and during the recesssion leading to a massive defecit, on paper.

The thing is, these investments are long term, they are not intended for paying the current claims, they are for future claims.

Investments will recover over time, the economy is already turning around in my opinion faster than most people expected, this was a pretty brief recession is you ask me.

I believe that National is using this for political mileage, the huge increases are just not justified except so that they can say in a couple years "hey look how great we are, we saved ACC", instead of smaller increase and a modest 10 years while the investments recover.

**MadDuck** · 14th October 2009, 19:01

Originally Posted by White trash

So what do we do? One option would be to make insurance compulsary, then charge the acc levie on your insurance based on your previous history.

That could be an option for sure. At first glance it would seem much more fair on those of us who have NEVER claimed on ACC before....surely ?

But then how far does it go? Compulsory insurance for rugby players? Cyclists? Then ACC doesnt really have a role to pay in NZ. We become a lot more like the USA.

Good or bad? Dont know to be honest.

**Ninja750** · 14th October 2009, 19:05

Hi all

Follow this link and make you voice count, with enough responses you never know what can happen.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/nzbikers_vs_acc

Thanks

**White trash** · 14th October 2009, 19:07

Originally Posted by MadDuck

That could be an option for sure. At first glance it would seem much more fair on those of us who have NEVER claimed on ACC before....surely ?

But then how far does it go? Compulsory insurance for rugby players? Cyclists? Then ACC doesnt really have a role to pay in NZ. We become a lot more like the USA.

Good or bad? Dont know to be honest.

I've had two bike accidents requiring the services of ACC for surgery/hospital treatment/ambulance rides/loss of earnings. Two in 28 years on two wheels which aint toooo bad (not quite you're glowing record but then I suspect you're a good deal more responsible than me

)

Anyway, for the medical treatment alone I received, I think it would take me about 65 years of continuous motorcycle rego @ 750/year to pay it back.

I would also hazrad a guess, that probably 75% (and yes, I'm guessing) of motorcyclists will require medical treatment covered by ACC in their riding career at leats once, maybe more. Hospital treatment certainly aint cheap you know.

**Mom** · 14th October 2009, 19:07

I like the no-fault cover that we have at the moment, but the way it is funded needs to be looked at much more widely. To simply say, to fund the huge cost of supporting people injured on motorbikes, we will increase the levy on all road registered bikes is so short sighted it is not funny. Bleat and moan as we will, nothing will change unless we all, and I mean ALL get together and make a noise as one voice!