ACC campaign, are we barking up the wrong tree?

**Timber020** · 14th October 2009, 19:41

Mr Key was a part of the insurance industry in Aus, an industry that sees systems such as ACC as evil because it limits how much money it can make in places such as NZ. An insurance agent I dealt with in the US told me that they were told about ACC in the US as being there industrys worst nightmare.

I suspect they are trying to make ACC seem like such an overpriced failed system that we roll over if a "cheaper" system in which private insurance companys start taking over ACC's roll.

Insurance companies get an easy in, get established then hike the prices and we are screwed.

**AD345** · 14th October 2009, 19:45

There is no deficit.

There is, thanks to changed accounting practices, an increased potential future liability.

There is also a idealogical change in the Government

**Fluffy Cat** · 14th October 2009, 19:47

Bad bad bad just listen to us POM's on this one. You think ACC is expensive he he think again. In 1992 i was a 23 year old police officer with a no claims since i was 16. My insurance then 3rd party of course was 650 pounds. It is much worse now. We have a good system here but are small population wise with few insurers. I am with AA at the moment and they do not cover my bikes as a group so i have to insure separately. You can bet compulsory insurance will suck big time.
Looks like its going to suck any way.

**tommorth** · 14th October 2009, 19:51

Originally Posted by rainman

I think National's game is to say "we tried to save ACC, honest we did, trust us, but the only option was to hand it over to our mates in the insurance industry, they'll look after you, really, trust us". And most people will believe it, without any further thought.

this is the bit that worrys me. It would just end up costing more giving less cover and making some rich people richer

making the fee capacity based make little sense to me.

there was a list of numbers of acc claims from sporting injurys last year in the herald the leader was golf

**xgnr** · 14th October 2009, 19:51

That this is just a tactic to get the levy up to substantially with some smart spin going on.

Watch the "back down" to 75% of the increase after the "consultation" process.

We have to scream else it will stay as it is.

They set expectations of huge rises elsewhere that ACC demanded and now the Govt has stated that it is "too much" and they have reduced it.

I think heard on the radio that the Bike levy has been set at what ACC wanted so there will be room to get it reduced.

**Highlander** · 14th October 2009, 19:52

Originally Posted by Timber020

Insurance companies get an easy in, get established then hike the prices and we are screwed.

Originally Posted by Fluffy Cat

You can bet compulsory insurance will suck big time.
Looks like its going to suck any way.

Be that as it may, with the proposed changes it will cost more to register our bikes (3 in our household) than it curently costs to insure those three bikes AND the three cars we have.

**carver** · 14th October 2009, 19:53

ACC is super inefficent.

ask anyone who is up there in workplace insurance.

4x the staff to do half the job

oh, and hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

to all you people who thought national would bring change.

fooled again NZ!

**sinfull** · 14th October 2009, 19:56

Originally Posted by Kiwi Graham

Discount for using approved riding gear.

Ummmm had to quote that before you deleted it lol

Originally Posted by Fluffy Cat

:I am with AA at the moment and they do not cover my bikes as a group so i have to insure separately. You can bet compulsory insurance will suck big time.
Looks like its going to suck any way.

try Kiwibike !!!
But of course thats a bit of a digresion as we are talking liability insurace not vehicular here ! Which it will turn into if we lose ACC Americanisation, scary word huh ?
Pleased this thread was started WT, brings more options out to the fore ! Xion, would Bronze have their own lawyer ?
Perhaps i should join now to help fund any legal action ? Would i be allowed to ride through Wa... opps WHanganui ?
Bwhahahahaha sorted, have a mate who will do me a bronze BRONZE to mount on the bike !!!

**Fluffy Cat** · 14th October 2009, 19:57

Originally Posted by Highlander

Be that as it may, with the proposed changes it will cost more to register our bikes (3 in our household) than it curently costs to insure those three bikes AND the three cars we have.

Yeah amen there. We have 2 cars and 4 bikes ouch.

**cs363** · 14th October 2009, 20:00

Originally Posted by Katman

I hear what you're saying WT but........

I haven't claimed a cent off ACC for about 20 years.

I'd hate to tally up what I've paid out to them over that time though.

Yep, 33 years of motorcycling and never claimed one cent from the fuckers for a motorcycle related injury. Now they want two grand plus a year out me for the two big road bikes I have which don't even get used every day!

Don't mind contributing, but add my car rego plus the work ute and my wage contribution and I'm starting to feel a tingling sensation in my behind...

**monkeymcbean** · 14th October 2009, 20:04

Originally Posted by sleemanj

As I understand it, ACC's problems are largely paper based.

Investments have tanked leading up to and during the recesssion leading to a massive defecit, on paper.

The thing is, these investments are long term, they are not intended for paying the current claims, they are for future claims.

Investments will recover over time, the economy is already turning around in my opinion faster than most people expected, this was a pretty brief recession is you ask me.

I believe that National is using this for political mileage, the huge increases are just not justified except so that they can say in a couple years "hey look how great we are, we saved ACC", instead of smaller increase and a modest 10 years while the investments recover.

Here is a indepth eplaination as to why they need our money

http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en...meta=&aq=f&oq=

comes up top of the page

**Naki Rat** · 14th October 2009, 20:07

Originally Posted by White trash

I see everyone's all up in arms about this, and I can see why. Massive increases are hard to swallow, it hurts. But it's really simple maths. (Fuck this is going to make me unpopular)

ACC is running at a HUGE deficit. Massive. Something has to be done, a number of changes have been suggested by the government.

They've obviously worked out motorcycles cost more to rehabilitate and suffer worse injuries than other road users. And riders of bigger bikes suffer more than riders of small bikes.

So can somebody explain to me rationaly WHY we shouldn't be paying higher levies?

I'm also beginning to think riders of race bikes and dirt bikes should have to pay a levy for each visit to the track or trail. This could potentially lower the road bikes rates at the same time.

ACC is on the skids but the bigger problem is that the government's entire coffers are in similar shape. They are not in a position to bail out ACC from the general fund 'cause there pretty much isn't anything left there.

I'm not comfortable trying to make this issue appear less significant than it is but this I fear is the first of many cash grabs that will be made from the New Zealand population as the government attempts to stem the bleeding that is going on in the country's finances. The news story that was rolled out minutes after the ACC lead story stated that the government will be forced to borrow $250 million per week for at least the next four years due to the reduced tax take caused by the recession (which is far from over yet in my opinion). The two stories' link was obvious. Gareth Morgan predicted heavy taxation after the recession had peaked and his voice of economic truth (good or bad) has been conspicuous by his abscence over the past few months of rose-tinted economic news stories.

Sure we need to smarten up if we hope to mitigate this blatant cash grab from a sector of the population who to be honest don't have much sympathy from the general populace so maybe the "Don't look so smug mate, they'll be emptying your wallet next" approach might help us to gain some traction in any course of action.

**firefighter** · 14th October 2009, 20:07

Originally Posted by carver

oh, and hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

to all you people who thought national would bring change.

fooled again NZ!

They're still trying to recover from the mess that the 'beneficiary voters hero party' left the country in......add the recession into it....I think they've done ok.

A bit off topic but.

**pete376403** · 14th October 2009, 20:08

Originally Posted by AD345

There is no deficit.

There is, thanks to changed accounting practices, an increased potential future liability.

There is also a idealogical change in the Government

An opinion piece in the Dompost this morning gave an example of a plumber being injured this year and unable to work/requiring care for the next FORTY years. The proposal is the the next FORTY years care is to be funded out of income received in the year the accident occurs i.e THIS year. There are a whole bunch of assumptions being made - the plumber will never work again, will require care for forty years, will live another forty years, inflation rates, investment rates, all sort of things. Yet these assumptions are being touted as gospel and unless something is done right now, ACC will fall apart. Nick Smith and John Judge, if not outright lying, are being extremely economical with the truth.

**cs363** · 14th October 2009, 20:09

Originally Posted by Naki Rat

Sure we need to smarten up if we hope to mitigate this blatant cash grab from a sector of the population who to be honest don't have much sympathy from the general populace so maybe the "Don't look so smug mate, they'll be emptying your wallet next" approach might help us to gain some traction in any course of action.

Good call mate