Researcher criticises motorbike levy logic

[jim.cox]

Apologies if this is a repost

But this article

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/new...ike-levy-logic

carries some useful data against the ACC and The Dishonorable Nick

[Ragingrob]

What an awesome article! Great stats and reads clearly. Definitely helpful to the cause!

[Laxi]

and on a major media site too, awsome

[spookytooth]

Lamb said last year there were 1475 motorcycle accidents in New Zealand and 50 deaths.

By comparison, 36 cyclists died in 1170 bicycle accidents but the cycling community paid no levies

[pzkpfw]

The motorcycle stats in that article don't really help us.

It paid $62 million in motorcyclists' claims last year, while receiving only $12m in levies from users.
...
Lamb said analysis of Ministry of Transport crash data showed 67 per cent of motorcycle accidents involved other drivers, and 60 per cent of those crashes were caused by the other driver.

Even if (as the evil Nick says) we assume ALL of the multi vehicle crashes (67%) were not the bikes "fault", the other 33% of $62M is still more than the $12M they collected in fees.

Lamb said 43 per cent of the 420 accidents – studied last year – between motorcycles and other vehicles in Auckland and Canterbury did not have the bike's engine size on the police accident report. The most common engine size in the remaining 57 per cent of crash reports was 250cc, which lent no weight to charging higher levies on bigger machines, he said.

This unfortunately doesn't say ACC shouldnt' raise fees. It more means that the differential may be wrong. i.e. maybe they would just raise us ALL to $500 per year - regardless of cc rating or whatever.


If any statistics would help, it would be other stuff like how many motorcycle riders also have cars; and therefore are part of the car "subsidy" of bikes. Given the difference in the numbers of cars versus bikes - I doubt this would help us much.

Could we convince them that ALL vehicle users rates should rise equally? Would car owners (who outnumber us) accept that, if they think their rise is paying for "our" accidents?



Our only defence really is the suddeness and steepness of the rise, and the inequality in how different groups are targetted:

Lamb said last year there were 1475 motorcycle accidents in New Zealand and 50 deaths.

By comparison, 36 cyclists died in 1170 bicycle accidents but the cycling community paid no levies.

...the trouble here is that ACC doesn't actually have the power to change that. For example, ACC can't decide that bicycles should have rego plates and pay a yearly license - it's the Government of the day that makes that kind of legislation.

"Inequality" isnt something the ACC really cares that much about - it's just not part of their brief. (As with those "bikes don't damage the roads" point. ACC doesn't care about the roads! [Apart from the issue that better roads might mean fewer accidents...])


Geez I hate this. It's too late to change my hobby to knitting or macrame.

[James Deuce]

The $511 is what I'm expecting to go through, and is roughly the sum that ACC have always quoted per motorcyclist. The upper one is pure fabrication via manipulation of data.

What you haven't cottoned on to in your analysis is that motorcycle registrations have doubled since 2003 and accidents, injuries, and fatalities are roughly 2/3rds of what they were in 2003.

Meanwhile, DIYers, bathing, and home cooking costs us $600million a year.

Time for an ACC Levy to go with the Fire levy on Home & Contents insurance I think.

Inequality isn't the issue. The obvious targeting of a small minority before they become significant in terms of voter power is.

[JohnR]

The motorcycle stats in that article don't really help us.



Even if (as the evil Nick says) we assume ALL of the multi vehicle crashes (67%) were not the bikes "fault", the other 33% of $62M is still more than the $12M they collected in fees.



.

I believe the $62 m represents the total payment for the year...including existing and long standing claims for injuries received since, well who knows when, i.e. people with permanent disability from motorcycle crashes.

[Rhubarb]

Apologies if this is a repost

But this article

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/new...ike-levy-logic

carries some useful data against the ACC and The Dishonorable Nick

To add a little weight to where ACC's funds go here are a few high profile companies that ACC invest our fees in ..................

Hellabys - Fall in interim profit - NZ Herald 16-10-09

Charlies - Net loss after tax of $1.8m - charliesgroup.co.nz

Telecom - Profit slumps - scoop.co.nz

Mainfreight - Profit down 66% - scoop.co.nz

Skellerup - Shares dropped 23% this year - scoop.co.nz

Sky TV - Forecast profit down $6.4m - scoop.co.nz

Smiths City - Full year profit 'substantially' down - scoop.co.nz

F&P Appliances - Profit down $10.8m - scoop.co.nz

Nth'land Port - Profit 'tumbled' by $7.31m, shares down 32% - scoop.co.nz


This is only a few I selected from a very long list. Obvioulsy some of the companies they invest in would record a good return on investment but it would have to be a really good return to counter balance the investments listed above.

[James Deuce]

This is only a few I selected from a very long list. Obvioulsy some of the companies they invest in would record a good return on investment but it would have to be a really good return to counter balance the investments listed above.

Despite all that, ACC have an average return of 8.7% over the last 5 years. They do better than any other Government portfolio, simply by letting their two ACC employed fund managers (both worth their salary) do their job rather than paying a fleet of "Fund Management Advisers".

They've simply been bitten by an unforeseen recession and like all Western Governments are incapable of riding it out and taking the long view because they feel naked and vulnerable (read - losing in the polls - which they aren't) when it's going all wrong. Complaining about ACC's portfolio performance is ridiculous when you find out it is the only one still making money.

[2wheeldrifter]

Lamb said last year there were 1475 motorcycle accidents in New Zealand and 50 deaths.

By comparison, 36 cyclists died in 1170 bicycle accidents but the cycling community paid no levies

WTF! Would be nice to know the cost for the cyclists, but in the some content for us the numbers are high and makes us look better, in reality there injuries are not going to be as server are they??

for the Press release....

[Mikkel]

Very nice article, but I fell over one thing:

ACC said riders were 16 per cent more likely than other road users to be involved in a crash.

I believe that the figure ACC used was 16 times, i.e. 1600 percent. Getting a quote wrong - especially by 2 orders of magnitude - is pretty poor journalism.

[Maki]

is still more than the $12M they collected in fees.

This $12M they allegedly collect in fees is a fabrication. There is no way that figure takes into account ACC fees associated with salaries and registration of other vehicles. I believe the $12M is the money they recieve from motorcycle registration only.

[MSTRS:Me]

WTF! Would be nice to know the cost for the cyclists,

Thank Sanx

[Rhubarb]

Despite all that, ACC have an average return of 8.7% over the last 5 years. They do better than any other Government portfolio, simply by letting their two ACC employed fund managers (both worth their salary) do their job rather than paying a fleet of "Fund Management Advisers".

They've simply been bitten by an unforeseen recession and like all Western Governments are incapable of riding it out and taking the long view because they feel naked and vulnerable (read - losing in the polls - which they aren't) when it's going all wrong. Complaining about ACC's portfolio performance is ridiculous when you find out it is the only one still making money.

Fair enough - but if they are investing for profit where are our 'no claim bonuses' like other insurance companies?

[MSTRS:Me]

This $12M they allegedly collect in fees is a fabrication. There is no way that figure takes into account ACC fees associated with salaries and registration of other vehicles. I believe the $12M is the money they recieve from motorcycle registration only.

$12M? From which year? There are approx 130,000 mopeds/motorcycles regd...using a loose average of $150 ACC each, I come up with $19,500,000.
Of course, many of those machines will be 'on hold' outside of summer.