Stop bitching and use your brains...

[Sanx]

Off-road 'sport' accident statistics (so not farm bikes, but racing, motocross, etc) can be found here: http://tr.im/BWar

Motorcycling:
- <= 3 new claims
- 20 active claims
- $2,006,000

Trail-riding / Motocross:
- <= 3 new claims
- 13 active claims
- $1,876,000

Horse-riding:
- 0 (?) new claims
- 22 active claims
- $2,179,000

Cycling:
- <= 3 new claims
- 21 active claims
- $1,578,000

Rugby:
- <= 3 new claims
- 82 active claims
- $9,537,000

Rugby League:
- <= 3 new claims
- 20 active claims
- $2,123,000

Surfing:
- 0 (?) new claims
- 6 active claims
- $1,127,000

Swimming:
- <= 9 new claims
- 59 active claims
- $9,166,000

[Coldrider]

The problem motorcycles have is there is not enough of us to dilute the payment pool as cars do.

Like talking to myself....average per motorcycle injury is cheaper than cars, then if there were as many motorcycles registered as cars, motorcycle levy would be cheaper than cars on a cost recovery model right ?

[fireliv]

Good Stuff Sanx

If you havent done already or it hasnt been suggested, I would suggest you put that in an email and send it to Nick Smith and other top heads. I have seen someone put there email addys up here somewhere

[Sanx]

So this was you then I take it?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/new...ike-levy-logic

No ... I'm not Professor Charles Lamb. But he does make some very interesting claims. Chief among them is that ACC claimed motorcycle riders were 16% more likely to have an accident, rather than 16 times as was reported in just about every media outlet. It's a slight difference, only two orders of magnitude.

[pzkpfw]

This is interesting:

Motorcycling:
- <= 3 new claims
- 20 active claims
- $2,006,000

Horse-riding:
- 0 (?) new claims
- 22 active claims
- $2,179,000

Do horse riders pay any special fee?

From what pool does ACC pay for them?

[Sanx]

Do horse riders pay any special fee?

Hahahahahahahaha *breathe* Hahahahahahahaha

From what pool does ACC pay for them?

They're classed as Sports Claims and can be claimed from a number of funds (http://tr.im/BWgh). Majority of claims are paid from the Earners' and Non-earners' accounts.

[pzkpfw]

Makes for a great counter-example as the number injured versus cost is so similar to bike riders.

[Sanx]

My take on a letter to send to politicians is attached. Replace the bits in yellow.

[mdnzz]

But are they not publicly elected officials representing the general population?
Are we in fact not their employers and as such have the rights to do something more that sit here bitchin on an internet site?
Hasn't anybody heard of referendum, shit didn't Sue Bradford use one of those and in return had one against her.

What about votes of no confidence in the government and their elected officials.

Instead of bitchin about the proposal, do what the rules of engagement allow us to do, attack the head of the snake then it has no bite nor venom.

Start a protest/referendum/petition to have the ACC minister removed from his office, have him publicly stocked and flogged by the very members of public that elected him in if it feels better.

But do something that removes him from office.

In third world country (which we are getting very close to being) he'd have been shot and any other idiot politician with him.
Although the idea is good, the workings not so good.

So shoot them down remind them who they work for,
If we are not happy with the performance then they either listen or get removed plain and simple really happens everyday in the workplace.

Just my 2cents worth, though with the new levies probably works out to be just under a cent

[Pampera]

In answer to your question - we wave the damn flag everywhere. We (all) take part in protest rides (we all behave ourselves and act like responsible adults on the rides), we (all) write to the powers that be. We get the facts (not what the gummint wants everyone to think) out in the public's view. We present a solid view (i.e. we don't get caught up in the "Labour are cunts/National are liars" argument to the detriment of the focus argument)

and to this I add - we don't use as our argument "it is the:

scooter riders
sports bike riders
Harley riders
new riders
old riders
old riders but have been away for a while
etc

that cause the problem and they should pay, not me" approach.

My view is that in the end the only people that most likely to fix this are politicians - bureaucracy has made its mind and will not be influenced by us (unless there are absolutely rock solid statistics - along the line of Sanx's post above - that absolutely cannot be evaded) . Even then it will be politicians who are persuaded by them who act.

The MORE people and groups who are inside the tent aggrieved and the more "middle New Zealanders" (whatever they are - but probably include a lot of scooter riding commuters) there are among them the greater the chance politicians will decide the heat needs to be taken out of the situation. Fighting amongst ourselves is what our enemy wants to see.

Yes - "Focus".

Michael

[dipshit]

Injury accidents per million vehicle kilometres is one of the normal metrics used for comparing road accident data. However, if it is even collated in NZ, it's certainly not published. If that's the basis of the government's 16 times claim, they should at least publish the figures and have them subjected to public scrutiny.

The figure that motorcyclists make up 2% of road users is bandied around quite often.

[howdamnhard]

Excellent Sanx now we need to get those figures out in the open (once they have been thoroughly checked over). If Joe Public is like me I get real pissed off when the government tries to pull the wool over my eyes.

[Sanx]

The figure that motorcyclists make up 2% of road users is bandied around quite often.

Total vehicle fleet is 3.8 million. Total number of bikes, including ones on exempt regos, is 120,000

That's 3.1%. The 2% statistic has been around for a few years and bike registration has grown much faster than other vehicle registration in the past couple of years.

[dipshit]

That's 3.1%. The 2% statistic has been around for a few years and bike registration has grown much faster than other vehicle registration in the past couple of years.

But like i said before... when you go from counting registered vehicles to actual vehicle use and miles travelled on the roads... the motorcycle percentage drops again.

[Clockwork]

Hold on. How can they calculate it using "miles travelled" (or "hours on the road", either way) AND lump into the equation injuries caused by non-registered bikes, such as farm bikes and dirt bikes? The mileage travelled by those is unknown and therefore left out of the equation.

Not that including them would make a huge amount of difference in our favour, but the point is that is a flawed calculation.

How could they justify calculating risk by K's travelled when they the charge on the basis of vehicles owned/time.

An earlier comment that I think stand further attention is the idea that the quote $62m may well include injuries still being paid for. I wonder how much of that money is accrued to riders who have payed a motorcycle levey in the past 12 months