Not allowed to hand out BikersAgainstACCLevies pamphlet at CHCH Biketoberfest

[Ixion]

G'day,



Chris Elles

What on earth has ANY of that got to do with the matter at issue?


But you get a bonus point and a slightly more receptive hearing for the classical allusion in you handle. Far too few classicists round here nowadays.

This is SPAAAAAAAAAARTA

[lakedaemonian]

A few of us went to the Biketoberfest in Christchurch this morning. While we were there we thought we would hand out pamphlets for the BikersAgainstACCLevies website and to encourage people to put in a submission.

After about half an hour we were approached by David Golightly from Golightly Insurance Services and another bloke from Rolling Thunder. They asked us to stop handing these out. Their reason was this was not the place for promoting the problems with ACC but to celebrate motorcycling. I did not really understand this.

Anyway, I found out later that ACC was sponsoring the event, even though there was no ACC tent or stand to be seen.

So, I guess the organisers are more worried about getting money from ACC than the fact ACC is currently proposing to tax motorcycles off the road.

Hi chchc_zed,

You may remember me.....I was the guy you spoke with for a bit after Dave asked you to stop handing out your pamphlets.

My team and I keep an eye on Kiwibiker as we have for years. It's a great resource for us in terms of community sentiment, market research, and a constant reminder to us to "up our game" to avoid getting "KiwiBiker'd", for lack of a better term for it, if we have somehow failed and let a customer down.

The Kiwibiker community can be brutal towards dealers and where there have been CLEAR inaccuracies in regards to my business in the past I have been strongly discouraged by my team from posting a correction for fear of being torn apart anyway.

This is different.

You've thrown a bloody big, and rather inaccurate, hand grenade behind a cloak of anonymity that has the potential to negatively impact on a very good man's livelihood.

As a participant in and witness to events your post inaccurately portrays I'm not going to allow this to go unanswered.

In our conversation we covered a LOT more than what you describe.

If you were confused at the time as your post states, why did you not ask for clarification at the time instead of disparaging a good man and his business on the internet hours later in such a biased and inaccurate manner?

Why didn't you consider saying something along the lines of "can I speak to one of the Biketoberfest organizers and ask about handing out some pamphlets"?

Why did you not take up Dave Golightly on his offer to hand out your leaflets at the road closure entrance/exit of the Biketoberfest event and leave people alone when actually enjoying the event and not pestered with "ACC levies" every 5 seconds?

Why did you not mention in your post the fact that we clearly communicated to you that all of the organizers representing the local motorcycle industry and motorcycle club community unanimously agreed to keep the event positive?

Why did you not mention in your post how I clearly shared with you the Biketoberfest organizers united opinion that the best response to the ACC levy issue is for us to talk one on one with other motorcyclists to make individual and well worded submissions?

Why did you not mention in your post how I clearly shared with you how important the Biketoberfest organizers felt it was to win the hearts and minds of the many non-riding public in attendance by showing them we aren't a bunch of angry, rude, and militant dirtbags.......but their friends and neighbours?

Half the reason why I'm so fcuking pissed off right now is that a good man is being disparaged inappropriately.

Ask anyone who knows me....I don't talk to or treat customers like this.

The other 50% is the bullshit assumption that somehow Dave, myself, or any of the many other industry or enthusiast organizers somehow don't care.

When I found out about the levy increase I, like many, flipped the fuck out.

The only thing I can think of that makes me more furious is unsubstantiated allegations like yours that we somehow don't care about an issue that impacts not just our passion, but potentially our livelihood as well.

We have much at stake.

Our collective choice was, and is, to engage motorcyclists and encourage them to make an appropriate submission.

I'm more than happy to front up in the real world on this one and would be happy to provide details of the only other witness to events, provided that person's privacy is maintained on this forum unless he chooses otherwise.

Chris Elles

[Ixion]

Sigh. One sees now why Lacedemonia (note spelling) no longer appears i n world atlases.

Still, men are we and must grieve when even the shadow of that which once was great passes from this world.

[200BUSA]

You say you are concerned about ACC increases but this is the first time you have made a comment about it, why not come on here earlier and let fellow bikers know what the industry is trying to do.
Anyway thanks for fronting up with your side. cheers.

[CookMySock]

What on earth has ANY of that got to do with the matter at issue?


But you get a bonus point and a slightly more receptive hearing for the classical allusion in you handle.

Watch out, he nearly got you didn't he?

Cmon people, this is baaaaaasic spin doctoring 101. Think about it. Go back and read his explanation(sic) carefully. hint: the writers' main point is always made in his final paragraph. So what was it? Go read it again for yourself, and that will sum it up perfectly.

Next step for him is to weasel out of giving any sort of further explanation, usually on the basis that they choose to take umbrage at something, probably that they have been 'insulted' or somesuch. Always, it will be someone elses' fault but theirs, and they will be the injured party. Note the role reversal!


Steve

[NONONO]

So..
Are you telling us that you did stop this guy handing out the leaflets or not?
Simple question.
Seems to me like your saying your somehow nebulous "collective decision" was not too collective. Or maybe you could tell us who was part of the collective?
Maybe the OC has a gripe?
Just the facts baby, just the facts.

[CookMySock]

Haha, I was right.

Note the role reversals;

he is now more pissed off at you than you at him

it is not you who is the injured party it is him

you have no right to feel angry but he does

only "appropriate" submissions may be made - he decides

and right at the end of his post, he is more than happy to take this out of this forum and sort it out provided it goes into secrecy???

Wake up and smell the shit, people. Geez.

Steve

[avgas]

Why is ACC sponsoring ANYTHING???!!!!! I don't get the whole "good for the community" bullshit either. Corporate sponsors are just that, corporate. ACC is not a corporate.
When I hear stuff like this, makes me want to make them a private company immediately, not tomorrow, not next year......NOW. As a stake holder, customer and investor. I find that that their funds are being mismanaged.
Imagine the prison service sponsored a horticulture day?
National/Labour sponsored a rock concert?

Also Chris.....sorry man, I know its hard to get past the defensive pose. But why in particular do you think the handouts should not have been present?
I can relate to the aspect that you did not want to "blast" the public with more paper - but that does not mean that you could not have put it on a table someone for people to collect.
It does sound suspiciously like you were looking after you "benefactors".
How does ACC fit with your event?

-Stewart Farr

[Molly]

Wake up and smell the shit, people. Geez. Steve

FFS Steve. You're putting two and two together and getting about fifty. I don't see what you think he'd have to gain by 'siding' (for want of a better way of putting it) with ACC? As it happens I had a short conversation with Chris this weekend which touched on proposed ACC increases. He clearly shared customers' concerns. But then, why wouldn't he?

[CookMySock]

FFS Steve. You're putting two and two together and getting about fifty. I don't see what you think he'd have to gain by 'siding' (for want of a better way of putting it) with ACC? As it happens I had a short conversation with Chris this weekend which touched on proposed ACC increases. He clearly shared customers' concerns. But then, why wouldn't he?

I'm not referring to siding with anyone. I'm just pointing out the blatant persuasion techniques, and how successful they are on you.

It's a powerful thing to understand how people can manipulate your thinking. Make your own decisions on the basis of logic, not someone elses' persuasion skills.

Be careful of what you believe.

Steve

[Brian d marge]

lakedaemonian

Does have a good point of trying to keep the positive feeling and the Kb can rip into small businesses

But ACC is such a important issue , not just for people who ride motorcycles but for Joe plumber as well

That by not assisting someone trying to make others aware of the ACC changes it effectively saying that he is supporting the hikes,

To use an analogy, maybe a less laconic style of communication should have been opened ( sounds like it may have been but was lost somewhere in translation )

But seriously in business in only takes One mis comunication and with the power of the internet to produced a negative cash flow

Someone dropped the ball

Stephen

[Mully]

Why did you not take up Dave Golightly on his offer to hand out your leaflets at the road closure entrance/exit of the Biketoberfest event and leave people alone when actually enjoying the event and not pestered with "ACC levies" every 5 seconds?

Why did you not mention in your post the fact that we clearly communicated to you that all of the organizers representing the local motorcycle industry and motorcycle club community unanimously agreed to keep the event positive?

Why did you not mention in your post how I clearly shared with you the Biketoberfest organizers united opinion that the best response to the ACC levy issue is for us to talk one on one with other motorcyclists to make individual and well worded submissions?

Why did you not mention in your post how I clearly shared with you how important the Biketoberfest organizers felt it was to win the hearts and minds of the many non-riding public in attendance by showing them we aren't a bunch of angry, rude, and militant dirtbags.......but their friends and neighbours?

OK, chch_zed,

Can you please answer the above questions.

Chris, in all honesty, I'm not convinced you have satisfactorialy answered the allegations thrown at you in the first post.

Can you please answer the below:
Presuming ACC "sponsor" your event, can you please advise when they came on board?
Did a representative of ACC ask you (or Dave) to stop the OP from doing what he was doing or was this off your own bat?

[lakedaemonian]

Have a look at the Biketoberfest.co.nz website to get an idea of the list of businesses and clubs involved in the organization of the event.

We collectively decided that while ACC levies would likely be the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and last topic of conversation for motorcyclists on the day, and while we strongly encourage motorcyclists to make their individual ACC submissions we created the event to celebrate motorcycling and to promote a positive image for motorcycling amongst the 99% non-riding community.

When I spoke with chch_zed he was just down from Casbolt's, next to the Trials Rider Display in Ross Galt's parking lot filled with lots of non-riding members of the public.

We asked him to stop........

We very carefully shared our concerns about what he was doing and specifically why as the organizers had discussed and agreed when faced with a situation....

We have a witness who can corroborate the story.....

We offered him the opportunity to move as a compromise......

Had he taken us up on the offer he would have been located right in the funnel thru which every motorcyclist had to pass to reach their bike....people who would be worth lobbying on the issue and seperate from the non-riding, and uninvolved "civilians" for lack of a better word.

When we spoke with him he was amongst a large group of non-riding "civilians" by our Trials Display.

So here we are 8 hours later....getting grilled because someone who chose a target poor environment at the time of the conversation, who didn't even have the courtesy to have a conversation with the organizers in regards to his intent, being offered a target rich environment away from the "civilians" that would be a win-win for everyone......instead going home to sulk and post some disparagement and half-truths on the internet.

[cowboyz]

i was waiting with anticipation for a well constructed response answering the questions at hand but disappointed to only get what was got. Actually, hardly disappointed because I kinda expected it really.

Heres some direct questions... Want to throw them past your PR guy and then manufactor some half arsed response, or you could just front up.....?

1. What is ACCs role in bikefest?
2. What potential damage did you forsee by openly disagreeing with ACC at bikefest?
3. What was the reason behind not handing out anti-rise in rego pamplets at bikefest?

[200BUSA]

I dont see the point in stopping him from passing info to the public, if they intend on buying a bike they need to know what they are getting into. Again is just so you make money selling bikes or the interests of fellow motorcyclists at heart?