The bigger picture.

[Ronin]

Why should I provide you with anything?

The figures speak for themselves.

You are the one making the claim. Are there not figures to back it up?

[davereid]

Why should I provide you with anything?

The figures speak for themselves.

Yes they do.

They show bikers are well above average drivers.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Why should I provide you with anything?

The figures speak for themselves.

that over all bike accidents and claims have been on a steady decline since 1987, the number of registered bikes have quadraupled and claims in motorcycle accidents have only doubled, and the is room for questions on these stats if they are on or off road related (though ACC deny this... but the numbers don't add up)

[Katman]

that over all bike accidents and claims have been on a steady decline since 1987, the number of registered bikes have quadraupled and claims in motorcycle accidents have only doubled, and the is room for questions on these stats if they are on or off road related (though ACC deny this... but the numbers don't add up)

Please tell me you don't support the idea that motorcyclists should be allowed to act however they please on the road.

Too many have the attitude that "accidents will always happen".

Why shouldn't we look closely at why those accidents happen and look equally closely at how we can reduce those accident?

[Shadows]

Will those who, in the past, have seen no problem with groups of motorcyclists treating public roads as racetracks, sit there scratching their heads wondering why we are being singled out or will they see this current ACC furore as a 'wake up call' to modify their behaviour?

That is what the Police are for.

FFS.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Please tell me you don't support the idea that motorcyclists should be allowed to act however they please on the road.

Where the fuck did I say that... get off you high horse man... the very stats you so called say "speak for themself", don't show what you are trying to say.

The fact remains that while there are more bikes on the road, there are also more cars and trucks on the road and yet the accident rates over all are declining including motorcycling which has been on a steady decline.

Too many have the attitude that "accidents will always happen".

Well unfortunately, "accidents will always happen" untill you take out the human factor, and even then there will be accidents.

Why shouldn't we look closely at why those accidents happen and look equally closely at how we can reduce those accident?

I have been for the last 25 years I have been riding, yet ACC haven't been doing their job of accident prevention on the roads or for motorcycling. Hell the only acc advert I saw was to try and justify the hikes...

All the drink driving and slow down and look before you cross the intersection aren't coming from ACC, when they should be part of it as well... most of these are Police and LTSA... where is ACC, its there main job is it not?

The Ride Right Courses, while ACC says they are good and support them... why are they not puting their money where their mouth is... why are they not recommending these courses should be part of getting your license. Why are they not sponsing these courses, instead of them the great guys that do run them in the weekends on their own time, basically for the love of motorcycling, make just enough money to cover the costs.

When was the last time you saw a bike awareness advert... we are one of the few countries that don't have them... and there are some great ones on Youtube...

[Oscar]

I was driving my car yesterday and saw the enemy.
It wasn't a bad car driver, the Cops or the ACC - it was a fat forty-something on a Harley.

T-Shirt
Shorts
Jandals

The sheer irony was that I was listening to the Midday news report on ACC rally's by motorcyclists and discussing the issues with my son.

So whoever you were, late model Harley with a yellow t-shirt passing Road & Sport Motorcycles at about 12.05 yesterday arvo - you are a dickhead and I'm fucked if I should pay ACC levies for you...

[YellowDog]

Perhaps my posts should instead tell you that I have a reasonable handle on the general attitude of New Zealand motorcyclists based on more than half my life time being one of those New Zealand motorcyclists.

Fair enough. I do respect your right to state you opinion and experience.

[Katman]

That is what the Police are for.

FFS.

Why?

What's wrong with a bit of self imposed control?

[AD345]

....you are a dickhead and I'm fucked if I should pay ACC levies for you...

...says any number of other car drivers to you on your bike...

You really haven't been paying attention to what's going on have you?

[Grasshopperus]

Guys, this thread is actually good practice for things to come. When the political process of parliamentary review, select committee etc actually begins the arguments for ACC change are going to come from legions of govt sponsored lawyers, spin-doctors, shills and sundry. The arguments they make along with political support from the national party is going to be a helluva lot more convincing and close-to-home/wallet for the voters than anything Katman has said so far.
What I'm saying, is that if the questions that Katman is posing are difficult to rebuke, think how hard it's going to be against the pros.

[Dean]

Say if we the motorcyclists win the war against ACC... Will there still be people riding extra cautiously trying not to put a bad hyped name on us motorcyclist at large. Or will they break back into old habits. Im just saying.

[Katman]

Say if we the motorcyclists win the war against ACC... Will there still be people riding extra cautiously trying not to put a bad hyped name on us motorcyclist at large. Or will they break back into old habits. Im just saying.

Despite it's apalling syntax, that is exactly what I'm asking in this thread.

[Dean]

For all it's apalling syntax, that is exactly what I'm asking in this thread.

IF ACC won - we would see a decrease in statistics right? Because many promised to go back next year like myself and not give up. Further displaying the extra cautious riding attitude and preaching it to the masses. If they can get 500 bikers on the auckland protest ride to not speed, stunt, endanger others it seems the message is strong.

[Katman]

IF ACC won - we would see a decrease in statistics right? Because many promised to go back next year like myself and not give up. Further displaying the extra cautious riding attitude and preaching it to the masses. If they can get 500 bikers on the auckland protest ride to not speed, stunt, endanger others it seems the message is strong.

Believe me, the message is strong.

Unfortunately, the cloth between many motorcyclists ears is flame retardant.