Crash stats

[MSTRS:Me]

I've been thinking (yes yes alright...quiet down the back) we often say how bad car drivers are in seeing us, and we know that about 67% of car/bike crashes are the car driver's fault. Despite the fact that overall, crashes are down across the board, what I've been wondering is...
Are there more or less car/bike crashes, as a %, over a longish period. I know it would be difficult to determine, because bike numbers fluctuate year by year, but someone must have done a study that shows a trend. Even if that trend is static.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Are there more or less car/bike crashes, as a %, over a longish period. I know it would be difficult to determine, because bike numbers fluctuate year by year, but someone must have done a study that shows a trend. Even if that trend is static.

There has been a continous down turn in accidents per number of vehicles on the road across the board (as far as I know) not just motorcycles. Sorry I can't quote where I read that it was in some report, over the last month or so I have read that many they are all starting to blur... \


So I am off to the toy run and then of the long drop rally to solve my problem of not having a a ride for well dang to long (couple of days now getting the jitters)... Stress relief I call it

[MSTRS:Me]

What I am getting at is whether car drivers are better or worse when it comes to seeing us. We all 'know' they are worse...but are they?

[Motu]

It's not dependent of the car driver seeing the motorcycle - it's more dependent on the motorcylist seeing the car and assessing the danger....and taking appropriate action.

Maybe we are finally coming to grips with how to stay alive on a motorcycle?

[MSTRS:Me]

True. Good example of how stats can say what you want. I hadn't thought of that angle. So any answer showing a trend is not much use. But I guess if the trend is that the car/bike crashes are static WRT vehicle numbers, then that tells a story of it's own.

[Highlander]

Motu makes a valid point.
I remember being told at my first defensive driving course: "I don't care if he didn't see you, if you saw him you should have been able to avoid the collision"

Clearly there are situations where that does not apply and there is little you can do, such as someone crosses into your lane within the distance it takes to react, but in general, I think it is good advice.

[p.dath]

Motu makes a valid point.
I remember being told at my first defensive driving course: "I don't care if he didn't see you, if you saw him you should have been able to avoid the collision"

Clearly there are situations where that does not apply and there is little you can do, such as someone crosses into your lane within the distance it takes to react, but in general, I think it is good advice.

I agree - as far as possible, you are responsible for your own personal safety. It doesn't matter who was technically in the wrong - if you are going to get hurt you need to take responsibility to avoid it happening.

[Conquiztador]

I have always been of the opinion that bikers make better cage drivers. It comes from having to be more alert when riding and we then transfer that to our car driving.

One statistic I would LOVE to find out about is: If you take 1000 car only drivers and 1000 bikers who also drive cars, what is the difference in their crash statistics? Somehow I have a gut feeling that the bikers/car drivers would have a much lower crash statistic than dedicated car drivers.

And to take this to the next level: if everyone would have to also have a bike license, perhaps we could change the amount of crashes drasticly...

I know that is an impossibility. Apart from in our own independent Biker state.

[Berries]

Are there more or less car/bike crashes, as a %, over a longish period. I know it would be difficult to determine, because bike numbers fluctuate year by year, but someone must have done a study that shows a trend. Even if that trend is static.

Stumbled across the forum this week while trying to source an anti ACC sticker for my SV1000. Interesting reading, especially seeing the names of some of the people I used to work with getting mentioned in another thread.

I have access to CAS so can give you the pure crash numbers. Will post them later in the week. The problem is that the number of registered bikes isn't really a good indicator of the percentage risk as it doesn't tell us the use these bikes get. Obviously a lot of people have more than one bike registered (well, probably not by the time the ACC rises get pushed through), and others have one bike that only gets ridden on sunny summer weekends.

Having said that, I agree with some of the other posters in this thread. Whatever the proportion of car vs motorbike crashes are deemed to be the fault of the car driver it is my view that in many of those cases the rider could have done something to avoid it. Yes, there will always be some unavoidable incidents, but if you ride like you are expecting something to happen then you are already some way to preventing it. At least once a week but generally more often than that someone will try and take me out on the way to work, and I am pretty sure they don’t know me . Whether it's lane changing on the motorway or pulling out at an intersection (yesterday actually, you should have seen the look on her face when she finally saw me) you should expect these things to happen. It is absolutely pointless being in the right while lying in the road with your leg at a funny angle. Ride it like they are out to get you and maybe they won’t.

[Katman]

I think one of the most telling set of statistics is the total claims currently being made with ACC.

11984 car driver claims

4509 motorcyclist claims.

(Remember we only account for 2% of the road using public).

We are either;

a) Crashing too often, or..........

b) Turning into a bunch of softcocks.

If you come off your bike and graze your knee, for fucks sake, just go home and put a fucking plaster on it!

[flyingcrocodile46]

If you come off your bike and graze your knee, for fucks sake, just go home and put a fucking plaster on it!

[Ixion]

I've been thinking (yes yes alright...quiet down the back) we often say how bad car drivers are in seeing us, and we know that about 67% of car/bike crashes are the car driver's fault. Despite the fact that overall, crashes are down across the board, what I've been wondering is...
Are there more or less car/bike crashes, as a %, over a longish period. I know it would be difficult to determine, because bike numbers fluctuate year by year, but someone must have done a study that shows a trend. Even if that trend is static.

Does it matter if they see us or not. We know they don't too often to be acceptable. Assume they don't, work within that.


The cager does not CARE if he kills you or maims you. Only YOU care about you. Work within that,

[Ixion]

I think one of the most telling set of statistics is the total claims currently being made with ACC.

11984 car driver claims

4509 motorcyclist claims.

(Remember we only account for 2% of the road using public).

We are either;

a) Crashing too often, or..........

b) Turning into a bunch of softcocks.

If you come off your bike and graze your knee, for fucks sake, just go home and put a fucking plaster on it!

The problem is, that whenever a biker is knocked off his bike, whilst he is getting up off the road and limping over to the cager to introduce him to Mr Gauntlet, some well meaning bystander calls an ambulance. Even if you tell the ambo to piss off (and most folk will agree, wisely, to be checked out) it still gets charged to ACC as a motorbike accident.

[Katman]

The problem is, that whenever a biker is knocked off his bike,

What about the single vehicle accidents?

[Ixion]

Same thing, though usually the single vehicle crashes have no witnesses .

Basic thing is that motorcycle crashes often are quite minor injury (bruises and grazes) but someone will , with the best of good inrtentions , summon an ambulance,. Even if it turns out to be unnecessary , it goes against us as a motorcycle claim

As said, HTFU , tell the well meaning bystander thanks, but no thanks, and ride off (or limp off) smartish.