The firearm thread

**The Pastor** · 7th December 2009, 14:22

oh yeah if you guys want the plans drawn up, indy and myself are autocad pros - you roughly sketch it on paper and we can turn it into plans people can build off.

**jono035** · 7th December 2009, 14:31

Originally Posted by renegade master

oh yeah if you guys want the plans drawn up, indy and myself are autocad pros - you roughly sketch it on paper and we can turn it into plans people can build off.

Drawings are for the weak! I already have a solid model of the rough idea built up in ProEngineer but thanks anyway. I'm still trying to think of something to use as the trough that won't require fabrication. The bolts-through-the-bottom idea could be interesting for allowing use of a cast iron frying pan or something...

The height of the lead above the nozzle determines the pressure, which determines the flow rate through the nozzle. Providing the flow rate is low enough, the stream will form droplets. Too much height means shot goes out of round as it flows together, too little height means the shot maker runs slower than it could.

**The Pastor** · 7th December 2009, 14:53

so basicly you have to be keeping an eye on it and topping it up to get the correct flow rate?

**jono035** · 7th December 2009, 14:58

Originally Posted by renegade master

so basicly you have to be keeping an eye on it and topping it up to get the correct flow rate?

Yeah, that's what I gather, although if it runs low I think it just slows down, the shot size stays the same.

I've fired off an e-mail to a Chinese metals supplier to find out what it costs for ingots of Bismuth but from the pages of a few metal suppliers in the states it could easily be $20 per kg...

**The Pastor** · 7th December 2009, 15:04

Not sure what bismuth is, i assume its some kind of fluxed lead, but cant you make your own? wouldnt be hard?

**jono035** · 7th December 2009, 15:06

Originally Posted by renegade master

Not sure what bismuth is, i assume its some kind of fluxed lead, but cant you make your own? wouldnt be hard?

Bismuth is a different element. It has a closer density to lead than steel but it isn't bio-accumulative and its compounds are more stable. Basically it's an expensive but less toxic equivalent to lead which allows legal hunting of waterfowl in guns that aren't suitable for steel shot.

Edit: 11.3g/cm^3 for lead, 9.8g/cm^3 for bismuth, around 7.8g/cm^3 for steel. The main advantage is that it is softer than steel while still being nice and dense.

**The Pastor** · 7th December 2009, 15:09

Originally Posted by jono035

Bismuth is a different element. It has a closer density to lead than steel but it isn't bio-accumulative and its compounds are more stable. Basically it's an expensive but less toxic equivalent to lead which allows legal hunting of waterfowl in guns that aren't suitable for steel shot.

oh, thats kinda cool.

**jono035** · 7th December 2009, 15:13

Originally Posted by renegade master

oh, thats kinda cool.

Yeah, most of this shotgun stuff is completely new to me, I've never bothered looking into it before... Might have to get myself one now...

**Mr Merde** · 7th December 2009, 15:14

Originally Posted by jono035

Yeah, that's what I gather, although if it runs low I think it just slows down, the shot size stays the same.

I've fired off an e-mail to a Chinese metals supplier to find out what it costs for ingots of Bismuth but from the pages of a few metal suppliers in the states it could easily be $20 per kg...

The whole idea for me is to cut down costs.

Shot already made up is about $9 per kg, scrap lead is $2-$2.50 kg.

Even taking into account the cost of the materials for building the shottmaker it wouldnt take long to pay for itself. Especially if you can turn out 20-25 kg an hour as I have seen on those boards that discuss this process.

They seem to have overcome the problem with roundness by varying the height the drop falls from before it enters the cooling bath.

Shall we buy the old shottower in Mt Eden? CAC building is still there along with the tower.

**jono035** · 7th December 2009, 15:19

Originally Posted by Mr Merde

The whole idea for me is to cut down costs.

Shot already made up is about $9 per kg, scrap lead is $2-$2.50 kg.

Even taking into account the cost of the materials for building the shottmaker it wouldnt take long to pay for itself. Especially if you can turn out 20-25 kg an hour as I have seen on those boards that discuss this process.

They seem to have overcome the problem with roundness by varying the height the drop falls from before it enters the cooling bath.

Shall we buy the old shottower in Mt Eden? CAC building is still there along with the tower.

Pity you've just bought that new place, you could have moved in somewhere with your own shot tower... My dad mentioned the shot tower when I sent him an e-mail about this asking for suggestions earlier today...

As for the economics, lead is certainly the cheapest and is still the best choice in terms of shooting clays...

There is a guy at Uni that I am helping with an Aluminium casting project who has an arc welder so I can use that to make something up.

**The Pastor** · 7th December 2009, 15:20

wonder if there is a market for shot at 2/3rds to half the price of store bought shot? you'd want to tumble it with graphite for it to be of the same quality of store bought shot.

still reloading shot is a bit hard cos the factory ammo is so damn cheap

**Mr Merde** · 7th December 2009, 15:21

Originally Posted by jono035

Pity you've just bought that new place, you could have moved in somewhere with your own shot tower... My dad mentioned the shot tower when I sent him an e-mail about this asking for suggestions earlier today...

There is a guy at Uni that I am helping with an Aluminium casting project who has an arc welder so I can use that to make something up.

You cant miss the tower.

About 50-60 ft high or more, opposite that pub near the prison.

**Mr Merde** · 7th December 2009, 15:22

Originally Posted by renegade master

wonder if there is a market for shot at 2/3rds to half the price of store bought shot? you'd want to tumble it with graphite for it to be of the same quality of store bought shot.

still reloading shot is a bit hard cos the factory ammo is so damn cheap

Not compared to a yeaR AGO WHEN IT WAS ABOUT $7 A BOX

**jono035** · 7th December 2009, 15:24

Originally Posted by renegade master

wonder if there is a market for shot at 2/3rds to half the price of store bought shot? you'd want to tumble it with graphite for it to be of the same quality of store bought shot.

still reloading shot is a bit hard cos the factory ammo is so damn cheap

The graphite is easy enough, just pour into a bag and shake.

What are primers worth? I noticed wads on trademe for 4c each and a 12g load of AS30 for 1oz of shot appears to be about 20 grains (14c each). At $2.50 per kg the shot is 8c each...

If primers cost the same as rifle/pistol then it works out at 35c per reload... What were those factory shells worth?

Edit: Oh, the water tower looking thing! Yeah, I drove past that thing twice a day for 3 years without having a clue what the hell it was...
Edit2: $110 for 1k primers so 11c each instead of the 9c I used, 37c per reload...

**The Pastor** · 7th December 2009, 15:31

Originally Posted by jono035

The graphite is easy enough, just pour into a bag and shake.

What are primers worth? I noticed wads on trademe for 4c each and a 12g load of AS30 for 1oz of shot appears to be about 20 grains (14c each). At $2.50 per kg the shot is 8c each...

If primers cost the same as rifle/pistol then it works out at 35c per reload... What were those factory shells worth?

Edit: Oh, the water tower looking thing! Yeah, I drove past that thing twice a day for 3 years without having a clue what the hell it was...
Edit2: $110 for 1k primers so 11c each instead of the 9c I used, 37c per reload...

factory is about 40-48c a round