Proposed new ACC campaign association - a new direction

**Ixion** · 7th December 2009, 14:16

Same as if you fall off and break your leg, except that there is no earning compo.

Medical treatment, operations, home help, wheel chair, house modifications if necessary (OK, probably not for a simple fracture), car modications. That's all assuming that the over 65 isn't working, even part time. Not everyone retires at 65 now y'know.

**yachtie10** · 7th December 2009, 14:32

Now Les dont take offence because your closer to 65 than me

I just think we pay taxes for a health system then we pay again for ACC. Makes it just another tax rise we are getting

**Ixion** · 7th December 2009, 14:34

No, not really. ACC pay a lump sum subvention to the Health Boards for hospital treatment. So we only pay once, - through ACC levies for accidents, through taxation for non accidents.

**drummer** · 7th December 2009, 15:42

Originally Posted by Wobblyas

This is why third party motor vehicle accident personal injury insurance is cheaper for motorcyclists than car drivers in Australia and elsewhere in the world (source: http://www.mac.sa.gov.au/xstd_files/...al%20aug09.pdf) For example in South Australia compulsory third pary insurance for a car driver costs $483.00 but only $390 for a motorcyle greater than 660cc.

Now one key question: How do you think the rest of New Zealand will react when we tell them we want privatised motor vehicle personal insurance because it will be cheaper for us?

Who's going to join my campaign?
(PM me if you want to join this campaign.)

I think at this stage the best name for this campaign group would be 'Privatise ACC Insurance Now'

Wobblyas
President P.A.I.N. Campaign

OK... some interesting ideas mentioned here... however your reference to Australia is a tad rhetorical... simply because each state has its own scheme... also in Queensland if you only have one seat on your bike you pay a far lower amount. Include a pillion seat and your levy is far higher.

The biggest problem I have with the Aussie system is what you mention... The word "SUE!!" It is a terrible thing over there... everyone sues everyone... legal vultures come around when you are in hospital and want you to sue the other party... its no win - no pay.. sounds good but it is a nightmare. Also over there they have Medicare which is compulsory medical insurance... covers anything medical... so its a very different situation... I lived there for 20 years... the fees they pay are much higher than us generally... and medical insurance is costly if going private... plus you still pay a portion of the compulsory...

there is some merit in competition but I don't believe the way to go is to follow the Aussies and make it a sue happy society.

Peter

**drummer** · 7th December 2009, 15:48

Originally Posted by Wobblyas

No my insurance company will pay me out and then pursue you for what you owe them. See if I care

Thats not the way it works in practice... Depending on the amount, one could end up paying the insurance company a dollar a week... yep you may get your money but then who wants to have the hassle... the ACC system is the best there is IF it is fair across the board OR if it relates to risk as far as levies go... risk to yourself and others.. and the "OTHERS" bit is another thing ACC have wrong in saying we should pay more... how many bike accidents end up injuring car drivers?

Peter

**FastBikeGear** · 8th December 2009, 06:52

Peter thanks for joining this discussion.

Originally Posted by drummer

OK... some interesting ideas mentioned here... however your reference to Australia is a tad rhetorical... simply because each state has its own scheme... also in Queensland if you only have one seat on your bike you pay a far lower amount. Include a pillion seat and your levy is far higher.

Far higher than what? Far higher than our proposed ACC levies or just far higher than a single seat bike? Actually. the pillion seat idea sounds pretty smart to me.

Originally Posted by drummer

The biggest problem I have with the Aussie system is what you mention... The word "SUE!!" It is a terrible thing over there... everyone sues everyone... legal vultures come around when you are in hospital and want you to sue the other party... its no win - no pay.. sounds good but it is a nightmare.

Peter what was your first hand experience with this?

Originally Posted by drummer

Also over there they have Peter Medicare which is compulsory medical insurance... covers anything medical... so its a very different situation... I lived there for 20 years... the fees they pay are much higher than us generally.... and medical insurance is costly if going private... plus you still pay a portion of the compulsory..

Medicare has nothing to do with this thread we are only discussing the merits of private MOTOR VEHICLE road user personal injury insurance here.

**FastBikeGear** · 8th December 2009, 06:58

Originally Posted by drummer

Thats not the way it works in practice... Depending on the amount, one could end up paying the insurance company a dollar a week...

Where do you get this one dollar a week nonsense from. Please read the original post we are discussing COMPULSORY FULL PARTY road user personal insurance.

When I run into you, and it's my fault my insurance company pays out your insurance company. My insurance company then seeks the excess from me, nothing else.

If I can only afford to pay my insurance company $1 a week towards my excess to my insurance company this has absolutely no effect on how quickly your insurance company pays you compensation.

**drummer** · 8th December 2009, 18:32

Originally Posted by Wobblyas

Peter thans for joining this discussion.

Thats ok.. ta! However I can't agree with all you say.

Far higher than what? Far higher than our proposed ACC levies or just far higher than a single seat bike? Actually. the pillion seat idea sounds pretty smart to me.

Depends on which state... Queensland has that rule and at the time I left the full rego costs were I seem to believe $100.00 more than here in NZ at the time.. this was in 2002 and for dual seat bikes.. the single was I think about 150 cheaper but I am unsure as to the exact amount.. also to have a single seat rego, you needed to get a Road worthiness cert to specify that... like a highly supercharged WOF. The bike needed modification so that NO pillions could EVER be carried... not an easy thing to do on many bikes... just removing the seat wasn't good enough...

Peter what was your first hand experience with this?

One of many... 1999...lying on a bed.. three hours with a serious back injury in horrific pain NO doctor but THREE legal vultures asking me about suing the gym I had the injury at (I didn't.. it was an accident and I was covered by medicare...). Still have their cards somewhere I think... also the fear that as a business owner if someone slipped accidently in your premises even if they were as pissed as a chook..(I had an antiques business) they could sue me for a huge amount... other examples.. a lady who walked thru a park... sign said "Don't Approach the Geese" .. she held her hand out with food and a Goose bit her on the butt... result: Legal vulture got her $75K.. want more?

Medicare has nothing to do with this thread we are only discussing the merits of private MOTOR VEHICLE road user personal injury insurance here.

Say what? It has everything to do with it.. Medicare looks after people after an accident the same way as ACC if needed... then Centrelink becomes involves... again... personal experience.. I ont go into details about that though.

Hope this answers your questions..

Peter

**drummer** · 8th December 2009, 18:41

Originally Posted by Wobblyas

If I can only afford to pay my insurance company $1 a week towards my excess to my insurance company this has absolutely no effect on how quickly your insurance company pays you compensation.

Really... who here has had problems with their insurers? Also tell that to my Buell... reality isn't perfect

Also... please read my entire post(and quote what I said IN context.. not as a journo type quote taken out of context...) I said private insurers are much more hassle than the simple no-fault ACC model.. and can you deny that... sorry mate... your idea has some ideas to explore but for me is not going to interest me in it's entirety.

Peter

**StoneY** · 8th December 2009, 18:50

Its not in my interest to privatize anything like the compensation system I as a taxpayer fully support and appreciate

I never wish to have to rely on an insurer and their policies, payout rules, minimum non earning periods, etc etc.

I have been down that path once back in 93 under a national government, epic fail then, would still be now

This approach is playing right into Nick Smiths hands, and re-affirms my earlier stance, Wobbly is merely a national supporter working within

How can you decsribe giving into the Nats as a 'campaign' and even expect to recruit following on KB, home of the BIKEOI?

Pfffft

**drummer** · 8th December 2009, 19:03

Originally Posted by StoneY

Its not in my interest to privatize anything like the compensation system I as a taxpayer fully support and appreciate

I never wish to have to rely on an insurer and their policies, payout rules, minimum non earning periods, etc etc.

I have been down that path once back in 93 under a national government, epic fail then, would still be now

This approach is playing right into Nick Smiths hands, and re-affirms my earlier stance, Wobbly is merely a national supporter working within

Agree with the insurance thing totally!... as far as wobbly being a Nat supporter... well.. actually who cares aboout that.. many here are I sispect... but if they are I also suspect most of those people those people are angry at the betrayal, and very angry at Smith... Wobbly is possibly a Nat insider possibly... thats way different from a casual supporter.. For myself I'm no longer even a supporter... would I vote Nat.. possibly as an electorate vote.. because I like our local guy but as a party vote... I am dismayed at all of them...

Peter

**yachtie10** · 8th December 2009, 19:22

Originally Posted by StoneY

Its not in my interest to privatize anything like the compensation system I as a taxpayer fully support and appreciate

I never wish to have to rely on an insurer and their policies, payout rules, minimum non earning periods, etc etc.

I have been down that path once back in 93 under a national government, epic fail then, would still be now

This approach is playing right into Nick Smiths hands, and re-affirms my earlier stance, Wobbly is merely a national supporter working within

How can you decsribe giving into the Nats as a 'campaign' and even expect to recruit following on KB, home of the BIKEOI?

Pfffft

What does that make you a labour supporter?
personally I am a national supporter in so far as I dont like labour
Dont agree with what they are trying to do and will struggle to vote for them if this goes through

How about keeping the politics out of it and support your argument with logic

personally I think privatisation has more downsides than the current system but are we going to be given a choice?

good troll wobblyas

**StoneY** · 9th December 2009, 08:39

Originally Posted by yachtie10

What does that make you a labour supporter?
personally I am a national supporter in so far as I dont like labour
Dont agree with what they are trying to do and will struggle to vote for them if this goes through

How about keeping the politics out of it and support your argument with logic

personally I think privatisation has more downsides than the current system but are we going to be given a choice?

good troll wobblyas

Its no secret im red through and through, card carrying party member in fact
So what?

My statement still stands, politics aside, this is no 'campaign' suggestion, its pure capitulation to Nick Smith, its exactly what he wants, and its pathetic to even pander this viewpoint that we should be grateful for a chance to privateize something that does NOT NEED FIXING to start with

Personally,it looks, feels, and stinks of 5th collumn tactic

Gain a small ammount of credibility, then try to paint the very picture we are oppossing as an option to accept?

Get real Wobbly, we do NOT want to privateize, have you missed the point of the other 400 threads sayiong "get fucked Nick Smith" or what?
Did you not hear 9,500 voices cry BULLSHIT?
Your suggesting we roll over and privateize a perfectly working, non broken, world class compensation model....

NO increases needed, NO privateization, NO surrender

**Clockwork** · 9th December 2009, 08:53

Having read this entire thread I suspect Wobbly is actually (on some level) trolling here. His idea to change tack and embrace private ensurance may just be a backhanded way to shup-up those car owners who are complaining of subsidising bike accidents by pointing out that actually, if ACC were out of the picture it's the liable party who will pick up the costs not, as present, the injured party. As car accidents cause more dammage in general, privatising insurance would push the costs back their way.

I'd accept that his suggestion may be an effective strategy but think that it would be a vary dangeous path to take. Make no mistake, private insurace replacement for ACC would cost this county a fotune in both money and misery and the risk is too high that this strategy would back-fire on us all. For that reason, I'd be unwilling to support it.

As far as ERC being paid from the Motor Vehicle Account, who came up with that stupid idea? This practice should end immediately and I suggested as much in the manifesto thread!