Clutchless shifting - bad for your bike?

**IdunBrokdItAgin** · 6th January 2010, 18:23

Just discovered how to do clutchless shifting today while trawling the interweb. Went out tonight and practiced upshifting for a while.

It rocks and talk about smooth acceleration if you get it right!

Anyway, rather than be another thread about a noob (myself) discovering new skills that everyone else is probably already well aware of, my question is:
Does it do anything bad to your bike?

Just wondering if it wears out the transmission faster or the like?

Only asking as I see myself using this trick a lot from now on.

**p.dath** · 6th January 2010, 18:57

Originally Posted by wild_weston

Just discovered how to do clutchless shifting today while trawling the interweb. Went out tonight and practiced upshifting for a while.

It rocks and talk about smooth acceleration if you get it right!

Anyway, rather than be another thread about a noob (myself) discovering new skills that everyone else is probably already well aware of, my question is:
Does it do anything bad to your bike?

Just wondering if it wears out the transmission faster or the like?

Only asking as I see myself using this trick a lot from now on.

There is about a million threads on this, covering every spectrum of response.

My personal opinion - it should be fine on any modern sports bike, providing it feels smooth. On the flip side, you're probably only saving yourself 500ms over using the clutch, so is it worth taking the risk?

I tend to do clutchless upshifts from 2nd up about 50% of the time. I like the feel of doing them, so if I'm in the mood ...

**CookMySock** · 6th January 2010, 19:00

I asked the bike shop, and they said clutchless shifts of any sort should be left for when you need them, and not done as matter of habit. It's hard on the gearbox and the clutch tortional damper.

Steve

**IdunBrokdItAgin** · 6th January 2010, 19:02

Forgot to search - apologies.

Felt pretty smooth to me.

Anyway cheers for the response - off to search through the threads now.

But it sounds like it is best left to do for sheer fun rather than a habit.

**quickbuck** · 6th January 2010, 19:29

Originally Posted by wild_weston

Forgot to search - apologies.

Felt pretty smooth to me.

Anyway cheers for the response - off to search through the threads now.

But it sounds like it is best left to do for sheer fun rather than a habit.

Don't think "Search" Works yet..... Haven't bothered to try today to find out though.

Personally, I have cluchless shifted all my bikes since I was about 10.... After 28 years I haven't discovered any transmission issues that are out of the norm....
Okay, i was getting a speate of false neutrals on my CBR, but that has gone now that I have fitted a cush drive out of another bike.... Might be coincidence... BUT the condition of your drive train can have a huge effect on your gearbox... Also the position of your shift leaver, and bell cranks.

There is a temptation to Pre-Load the gear leaver. Apparently this should be refrained from, as the shift forks wear out prematurely.

Hope this helps.

**Daffyd** · 6th January 2010, 19:32

I tried it a few times but it slipped out of gear once or twice so I gave it up.

**vifferman** · 6th January 2010, 19:52

Originally Posted by DangerousBastard

It's hard on the gearbox and the clutch tortional damper.

WTF is a 'tortional damper'?

I know what a tort is (legal, or patisserie), and I know what torsion is, but I have no idea what part of my bike is a tortional damper.
A legal damp squib?
A soggy lump of pastry dough?

Mebbe it's some strange Korean delicacy....

**IdunBrokdItAgin** · 6th January 2010, 19:59

Okay search function is working again.

Had a good read and the general consensus is that clutchless upshifting seems to be fine but pre-loading your gear lever may cause problems over time.

Gutted as pre-loading the gear lever was what I was doing and it was silky smooth. They should make gear boxes that can handle pre-loading.

I may try and practice some more and upshift without pre-loading but I reckon it will take a bit longer to get it right.

**IdunBrokdItAgin** · 6th January 2010, 20:00

duplicated post

**quickbuck** · 6th January 2010, 20:13

Originally Posted by wild_weston

Okay search function is working again.

Had a good read and the general consensus is that clutchless upshifting seems to be fine but pre-loading your gear lever may cause problems over time.

Gutted as pre-loading the gear lever was what I was doing and it was silky smooth. They should make gear boxes that can handle pre-loading.

I may try and practice some more and upshift without pre-loading but I reckon it will take a bit longer to get it right.

Cheers for testing the search function for me.....

Yup, it is a bit of a shame you can't prelaod... However if you make the bits that wear because of it stronger you will only wreck more expencive parts... and the shift forks will be a bit heavy in any case.

The good news is that according to the workshop manual for my bike, it isn't actually too hard to replace them

Can't speak for the cost though, as i haven't had to go there.....

You will get used to upshifting without preloading if you practice... Does save your left hand for just the down shifts too

**CookMySock** · 7th January 2010, 06:31

Originally Posted by vifferman

WTF is a 'tortional damper'?

It's the springs in the back of the clutch basket. Its there because at certain rpms there are quite large harmonics set up in the engine and gearbox, and basically its a hundred times cheaper to allow them to flex something else, er, flexible, rather than engineer them out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsional_vibration

Steve

**IdunBrokdItAgin** · 7th January 2010, 08:49

Originally Posted by quickbuck

Cheers for testing the search function for me.....

Yup, it is a bit of a shame you can't prelaod... However if you make the bits that wear because of it stronger you will only wreck more expencive parts... and the shift forks will be a bit heavy in any case.

The good news is that according to the workshop manual for my bike, it isn't actually too hard to replace them

Can't speak for the cost though, as i haven't had to go there.....

You will get used to upshifting without preloading if you practice... Does save your left hand for just the down shifts too

Had a few goes at clutchless upshifting without pre-loading this morning and it is actually easier than I thought. All seems to be a matter of knowing how much to roll off the throttle before upshifting and then it's all about timing your wrist and foot movements together (pre-loading just avoided the need to time your wrist and foot movements together).

Missed a couple of times but didn't hear any painfull noises. Just rolled on the throttle again and then slightly rolled off to try all over again and it was all good. Tis what practicing is all about after all.

I think I'll leave pre-loading to the serious racers, who probably expect to re-condition their gear boxes regularily.

I even had a go at clutchless downshifting, just to see if I could do it. Worked fine but I won't be using this going forward as there is little need to use it, unless I lose a clutch lever.

Cheers to everyone for all your help.

**Biggles08** · 8th January 2010, 07:02

Originally Posted by p.dath

On the flip side, you're probably only saving yourself 500ms over using the clutch, so is it worth taking the risk?

In a race...ummmm,,,yep! ;-P I never use my clutch for upshifting....ever...but then hey, I've already fucked one gearbox on my ZX6R so who knows :-).

Personally I see no problems at all with upshifting without the clutch if you can 'blip off' the throttle correctly to produce a smooth change...after all, that's all a quick shifter is doing.

<----Shifty eyes....see what I did there! eh hehe

**Wheeliemonsta** · 9th January 2010, 14:42

Gidday All,
Modern motorcycles have a sequential gearbox meaning there are no synchro or baulk rings incorperated in there design - shifting without the clutch will not cause damage to this type of gearbox, you do run the risk of accelerated wear to selector forks by so called "Preloading" the lever which is absolutely unecessary to do... The little trick to clutchless shifting is to match engine speed & road speed before attempting to shift thus reducing load on the gearbox

Give it a lash - low road speeds & low engine speeds will result in butter smooth shifts

Shifting at higher engine speeds requires a bit more practice to perfect the technique but it's not difficult if you have at least a modicum of mechanical sympathy...

Cheers

**Pixie** · 9th January 2010, 17:27

Originally Posted by vifferman

WTF is a 'tortional damper'?

I know what a tort is (legal, or patisserie), and I know what torsion is, but I have no idea what part of my bike is a tortional damper.
A legal damp squib?
A soggy lump of pastry dough?

Mebbe it's some strange Korean delicacy....

It's an Australian cake,similar to a Tort but cooked on a camp fire:
Definition: Damper is a simple, yeastless bread often cooked over a campfire in a pot or moulded to a stick.