Hone Harawira says...

[Skyryder]

Maori have been stealing land....................for generations.....................before we came here and from each other......................not too mention woman too etc.

I know nothing of Hone H's Iiwi.......................but it would be interesting to know of his Iwi's cultural history in respect of this.


Skyyrder

[Dave Lobster]

..............but it would be interesting to know of his Iwi's cultural history in respect of this.

Once you've found it, maybe you could read it to him

[Dean]

Oh, you mean the Europeans that were here before Maori? That race history?
The race that Maori bashed and ate into extinction. That race history?

Hone and his ilk are land-grabbing bludgers, plain and simple. They were not here first.

Right so Maori are the bad ones, yet you are for or under the crown aren't you? Read this.

The British Empire tried to take over the fucking world! Asia, India, America so many other countries they fought and bludgeoned to get land FOR WHAT PEASEA FOR WHAT? That's right ultimate greed, its always the Maori as the bad folk in your guys minds. Not once do you recognize every race fights and kills to survive that the weak die off!

Don't you believe in the whole Darwin theory about the dumb ones die and the strong smart survive? Maori killed Morie ories because they couldn't live for themselves, were way more primitive than Maori and were only a few of them in population. Maori established more in New Zealand than the Morie Ories made especially how we are a icon to the fishing industry because of our history using the pounamu rock carved into hooks. Our weapons, our political system, our Pa's design and construction, warfare tactics and adornment like Female makeup, tattoo and its designs with carving art that contributes to today's art, and clothing. Only a family of Scottish/Irish were rumoured to be in New Zealand before Maori breeding with the Morie Ories.

"Captain James Cook, when comparing these skills to those on his ship, wrote in 1773: ‘[W]e were by no means such expert fishers as them, nor were any of our methods of fishing equal to theirs"

"Captain Cook’s voyage, noted on 4 December 1769 that Bay of Islands Māori were amused by the small size of the Endeavour’s seine net: ‘[A]fter having a little laught at our seine, which was a common kings seine, [they] shewd us one of theirs which was 5 fathom deep [9 metres] and its lengh we could only guess, as it was not stretchd out, but it could not from its bulk be less than 4 or 500 fathom [720–900 metres]" link here: http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/te-hi-ika-maori-fishing/5

Not to mention the Morie Ories lived not on North or South Island but on the Chatham Islands quote here:
"the Moriori people are settling, possibly around the same time, the Chatham Islands, or Rekohu, a small group of islands off the coast of New Zealand". New Zealand is the south Island and North Island not substitute islands off the coast, Aotearoa meaning the land of the long white cloud, pointing out the singular phrase of South and North island being one. Link here:http://history-nz.org/

Maori are angered that their land was taken from them, they established on the land so they have every right to keep it as their own. The common wealth consists of how many countries? Why is that? = yep. England are the greedy ones they already were smart enough and strong enough and well modern enough to own their own land not take land from many others. So dont be so hypocritical.

[Dean]

If you are not satisfied with that.

Here is the link to the map of NZ showing how far away Chatham Islands are in the pacific, the island Morie Ories inhabited mis-understood as being part of New Zealand.

http://maps.google.co.nz/maps/mpl?ie...ent=google&z=6 Type in Chatham Islands then press search maps.

It would pay to know what the post code is for a person in Chatham Islands, they are an island in the pacific, around New Zealand but still not part of New Zealand just like fiji and pitcairn islands. Similar to how Stuart Island has its own independancy.

[peasea]

Right so Maori are the bad ones, yet you are for or under the crown aren't you? Read this.

The British Empire tried to take over the fucking world! Asia, India, America so many other countries they fought and bludgeoned to get land FOR WHAT PEASEA FOR WHAT? That's right ultimate greed, its always the Maori as the bad folk in your guys minds. Not once do you recognize every race fights and kills to survive that the weak die off!

Don't you believe in the whole Darwin theory about the dumb ones die and the strong smart survive? Maori killed Morie ories because they couldn't live for themselves, were way more primitive than Maori and were only a few of them in population. Maori established more in New Zealand than the Morie Ories made especially how we are a icon to the fishing industry because of our history using the pounamu rock carved into hooks. Our weapons, our political system, our Pa's design and construction, warfare tactics and adornment like Female makeup, tattoo and its designs with carving art that contributes to today's art, and clothing. Only a family of Scottish/Irish were rumoured to be in New Zealand before Maori breeding with the Morie Ories.

"Captain James Cook, when comparing these skills to those on his ship, wrote in 1773: ‘[W]e were by no means such expert fishers as them, nor were any of our methods of fishing equal to theirs"

"Captain Cook’s voyage, noted on 4 December 1769 that Bay of Islands Māori were amused by the small size of the Endeavour’s seine net: ‘[A]fter having a little laught at our seine, which was a common kings seine, [they] shewd us one of theirs which was 5 fathom deep [9 metres] and its lengh we could only guess, as it was not stretchd out, but it could not from its bulk be less than 4 or 500 fathom [720–900 metres]" link here: http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/te-hi-ika-maori-fishing/5

Not to mention the Morie Ories lived not on North or South Island but on the Chatham Islands quote here:
"the Moriori people are settling, possibly around the same time, the Chatham Islands, or Rekohu, a small group of islands off the coast of New Zealand". New Zealand is the south Island and North Island not substitute islands off the coast, Aotearoa meaning the land of the long white cloud, pointing out the singular phrase of South and North island being one. Link here: http://www.nuip.net/surf.php?q=aHR0c...nLw%3D%3D&hl=0

Maori are angered that their land was taken from them, they established on the land so they have every right to keep it as their own. The common wealth consists of how many countries? Why is that? = yep. England are the greedy ones they already were smart enough and strong enough and well modern enough to own their own land not take land from many others. So dont be so hypocritical.

I wouldn't deny that the British wanted to take the whole world over, Hitler did too and he had some damned good ideas. Picking a fight with the Ruskies wasn't one of them. Yes, you're right, it's ultimate greed, part of human nature. Taking land is called conquest, get over it, the Mori Ori had to.

Following your train of though that "they (Maori) established on the land so they have every right to keep it as their own" would make Europeans who conqured them quite within their rights to NOT give it back, correct? Allan Titford had legal title to his land and look what happend to him. He had/has every right to be angry too.

I think, also, that you'll find the Mori Ori people were chased to the Chatham Islands by Maori who (it would appear) had a habit of bashing and eating them. Cannibalism? Oh, how modern is that?

I have never questioned the ability of Maori to fish and it looks like sitting behind a desk with a rather chubby quota, charging those on the boats for the privilege of catching the fish, seems the clever way to go about it. No argument there.

As for the carving; no doubt about the talent involved, whether it was in wood or in greenstone. Interesting that they didn't have the same designs in their homeland though. I wonder where they got their ideas. It's quite possible they were influenced by the red-haired people they encountered, bashed and ate when they got here.

Frankly, I don't give a toss who was here first, all I'd like is the truth and part of that truth was in the books that were freely available in schools and other institutions until a grievance industry was born in the 70's. That red-haired people were here before Maori was common knowledge in the late 1800's and early 1900's, remains were photographed and Maori elders spoke of them. Odd how you can't find those books any more.

Mirror anyone?

[EJK]

That twat Harawira doesn't like looking in to the mirror, either

[Dave Lobster]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to peasea again."

[Dean]

I wouldn't deny that the British wanted to take the whole world over, Hitler did too and he had some damned good ideas. Picking a fight with the Ruskies wasn't one of them. Yes, you're right, it's ultimate greed, part of human nature. Taking land is called conquest, get over it, the Mori Ori had to.

Following your train of though that "they (Maori) established on the land so they have every right to keep it as their own" would make Europeans who conqured them quite within their rights to NOT give it back, correct? Allan Titford had legal title to his land and look what happend to him. He had/has every right to be angry too.

I think, also, that you'll find the Mori Ori people were chased to the Chatham Islands by Maori who (it would appear) had a habit of bashing and eating them. Cannibalism? Oh, how modern is that?

I have never questioned the ability of Maori to fish and it looks like sitting behind a desk with a rather chubby quota, charging those on the boats for the privilege of catching the fish, seems the clever way to go about it. No argument there.

As for the carving; no doubt about the talent involved, whether it was in wood or in greenstone. Interesting that they didn't have the same designs in their homeland though. I wonder where they got their ideas. It's quite possible they were influenced by the red-haired people they encountered, bashed and ate when they got here.

Frankly, I don't give a toss who was here first, all I'd like is the truth and part of that truth was in the books that were freely available in schools and other institutions until a grievance industry was born in the 70's. That red-haired people were here before Maori was common knowledge in the late 1800's and early 1900's, remains were photographed and Maori elders spoke of them. Odd how you can't find those books any more.

Mirror anyone?

First of all that is speculation or myth to say the Mori Ories were chased out to Chatham Islands, however there is proof they resided in Chatham Islands.

Second yeah and who gave the authorisation for the Titfords to own the land? England, the most selfish, greedy nation out there - we are all under the crown remember New Zealand isnt independant. The Europeans were modern enough and prestigious enough to own and controll their OWN land that makes them selfish and greedy to go for other land doesent it. Yet when a race needs to survive, and kills off the weak ones they are considered more selfish and greedy then the British Empire?

Not modern to eat the corpse of another, culture, you know in the Haka when they poke their tounge out it means they water for your flesh and the beading eyes mean it is you who they will go for. Too much satanic forces in Maori culture that caused them to do that, it helped them win battles though.

Fourthly are you jealous that an well known English explorer was laughed at by Maori because the english had small nets and crappy fishing techniques. If you are a true fisherman you would of read about how Maori were succesfull in it.

Red Haired people is only speculation, their is a myth of scottish/family (red haired) family residing in New Zealand they would of been killed upon discovery, not studied over a period of time. It was until England came over that the Maori took neutral upon visitors.

It would be Impossible for Maori to adopt the learnings form the red haired people and have the teachings spread to all Maori across New Zealand in the timeframe of 16 or 1700's because all Maori from all tribes picked up these learnings , they all kept to the same belief of Maui and same Language not some mix between scottish and Rara Tongan.

Ownage anyone?

[Tank]

Fourthly are you jealous that an well known English explorer was laughed at by Maori

They stopped laughing when we showed them our muskets - Now that was ownage!

[Tank]

, our Pa's design and construction.

You gotta admit that the modern Maori pa is somewhat better constructed these days ay?


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[Dean]

They stopped laughing when we showed them our muskets - Now that was ownage!

Really?

You mean the journals of English solliders hiding at the bottom of hills geting charged by thousands of warriors with no fear, eyes rolled back like demons, taking multiple shots to the body but still running, spears against muskets and they still won battles against the English.
Young english recruits crying because they are scared, shaking hearing the mens feet charge down the hill, hearing the screams of the women calling the demons for strength, warriors haka heard for miles.

Yeh im sure the English really did well with the muskets, but oh wait they were stupid enough to trade with the Maori later on also, now that I could go on a whole nother description. Like Maori's hiding in underground thrush with Muskets at the ready, Maori in tree's unseen by thousands of soliders crossing through, the patter of warroiors stalk them but they cant find them.

Log off Tank, I recall you saying Im boring to bait, just log off.

[peasea]

Generation upon generation of old Kaumatuas and Kuias have always acknowledged the existence of the kiri puwhero (light complexion, reddish skinned) and uru-kehu (light coloured, golden tinged or reddish hair) taniwha races (the pre-Maori stonebuilders). It is only the lately trained corporate kaumatuas, with a degree in business management or law, who have, all-too-conveniently, forgotten who the actual Tangata Whenua (Lords of the soil) of New Zealand truly are. The ruined stone structures and highly visible landscape excavations of the stonebuilders dot our countryside in their thousands and many of these structures relate to astronomy, just like in Britain or Continental Europe and the Mediterranean.

[Tank]

Really?

You mean the journals of English solliders hiding at the bottom of hills geting charged by thousands of warriors with no fear, eyes rolled back like demons, taking multiple shots to the body but still running, spears against muskets and they still won battles against the English.
Young english recruits crying because they are scared, shaking hearing the mens feet charge down the hill, hearing the screams of the women calling the demons for strength, warriors haka heard for miles.

Yep - and you still lost. mwahahahaha

but oh wait they were stupid enough to trade with the Maori later on

I dont suppose you have a receipt for that do you? We seem to have lost ours and it would really help settle this whole treaty of waitangi land claim thinggie

[Elysium]

Have people like Hone ever thanked the European settlers for modern things such as shoes, written language, nails, alcohol, houses, clothes, KFC, TAB, motorcycles etc.....?

I don't think I've heard a single maori say thank you for the modern convenience the sttlers introduced.

[Dean]

Generation upon generation of old Kaumatuas and Kuias have always acknowledged the existence of the kiri puwhero (light complexion, reddish skinned) and uru-kehu (light coloured, golden tinged or reddish hair) taniwha races (the pre-Maori stonebuilders). It is only the lately trained corporate kaumatuas, with a degree in business management or law, who have, all-too-conveniently, forgotten who the actual Tangata Whenua (Lords of the soil) of New Zealand truly are. The ruined stone structures and highly visible landscape excavations of the stonebuilders dot our countryside in their thousands and many of these structures relate to astronomy, just like in Britain or Continental Europe and the Mediterranean.

There is no proof of the numbers of Settlers, and at what time they arrived in New Zealand. There is only SPECULATION.

"Very ancient written records in Europe and the old world confirm knowledge that New Zealand and Australia existed. However getting access to and acknowledgement of these records is difficult. Concocted historical opinion has been based on deliberate intent to discredit and cover up such knowledge. NZ and Australia are not the only countries bound up by such conspiracies. However this article is about a particular NZ example, with some general observations thrown in."

This is a touchy subject in the sense that it is barraged my mystery and conspircay, no one can really confirm what went down. Remember too Maori elders from Ngapuhi preached about Maui pulling up a fish that came to be New Zealand. Now are you going to beleive that? - doudt it.