North Shore: Northern Motorway: Police targeting motorcycles (25 January)

[p.dath]

I've had a read up on the "unsafe lane change". The charge is covered in:
http://interim.legislation.govt.nz/r...html#dlm280560
and is called "Unsafe passing". The maximum fine is $150 and 35 demerits (for an individual). To get it you need to break the rules in section 2.6(1):
http://interim.legislation.govt.nz/r...&p=1#DLM303048
Only provisions (a) and (b) apply (because you are in the same lane as the car).

That means to get a ticket you have to violate these two road rules:

A driver must not pass or attempt to pass another vehicle moving in the same direction unless—

* (a) the movement can be made with safety; and

* (b) the movement is made with due consideration for other users of the road; and

So unless there is some case law to refine this (and I can't find it), I don't see how the charge could be upheld.

[MSTRS:Me]

I think we're getting into the "quota" territory now. If I'm doing 111km/h and happen to get caught, well that's my bad luck. Unfortunately, the quota system often interferes with the "descretion" system - which TBH, is probably where a lot of the cop's respect has gone - draconian enforcement of the letter of the law as dictated by their masters.

My point was some people that get pulled for 111km/h also get away with no Reg/WOF with a "warning" if they pass the test. Then they come on KB and bitch about the "unfair bastard" cop who just let them off an additional $400 worth of fines.

There's plenty of anecdotal evidence of tickets handed out for 111kph, one after another, by the same cop - who can show you the radar reading (but no proof it was you, or when it was locked on). YT was a client of one...and if she says she wasn't going that fast (!) I believe her.

Yay!! A lanesplitting thread. Never had one of them before.

Can we please have a "waving" thread next?

Oh - I know...a 'how many bikes have you got' or 'what do you do for a living' or something about Skiddie...

[MSTRS:Me]

OK again we are talking symantics.
As above you are ticketed for an unsafe lane change, undertaking, dangerous or what ever the cop (SAYS HE) saw you do not for lane splitting.

Semantics. Right?
I have no problem with anyone being ticketed for zipping in and out of traffic, passing on the left (in the same lane), passing at speed differentials that are ridiculous, etc. But any biker sitting in the rightside of the lane that is passing another vehicle at (say) 15/20kph faster when that other vehicle is travelling relatively slowly is doing nothing wrong in law. And a cop on the shoulder is not going to see where that bike is if it's in the middle or median lane, is he?

[p.dath]

OK again we are talking symantics.
As above you are ticketed for an unsafe lane change, undertaking, dangerous or what ever the cop saw you do not for lane splitting.

In this case, the police officer was pulling over every single motorcyclist and giving them a warning. They surely couldn't all be undertaking, dangerous, or whatever.

I think I'll wait one more day, and then write into the District Commander and ask why she/he believes lane splitting to be illegal (unless someone from BRONZ is keen to do this ... it kinda is a biker rights thing).

[peasea]

fair enough, but for them to say" lanesplitting is illega"l is not part of their job. in fact i would say it was illegal to claim an action is illegal when it is not.

Most cops are just doing their job but there seem to be few (like in most occupations) who are just wankers

I could name a few.

[red mermaid]

I've had a read up on the "unsafe lane change". The charge is covered in:
http://interim.legislation.govt.nz/r...html#dlm280560
and is called "Unsafe passing". The maximum fine is $150 and 35 demerits (for an individual). To get it you need to break the rules in section 2.6(1):
http://interim.legislation.govt.nz/r...&p=1#DLM303048
Only provisions (a) and (b) apply (because you are in the same lane as the car).

That means to get a ticket you have to violate these two road rules:


So unless there is some case law to refine this (and I can't find it), I don't see how the charge could be upheld.

You have misread this piece of law.
Because of the use of the word 'and' at the end of subsection (b) there has to be another subsection and the ingredient of that section must also be present to make the offence valid.

[p.dath]

You have misread this piece of law.
Because of the use of the word 'and' at the end of subsection (b) there has to be another subsection and the ingredient of that section must also be present to make the offence valid.

Click on the URL I provided. I quoted only the relevant section. I explained why the following section doesn't apply.

[Ixion]

In this case, the police officer was pulling over every single motorcyclist and giving them a warning. They surely couldn't all be undertaking, dangerous, or whatever.

I think I'll wait one more day, and then write into the District Commander and ask why she/he believes lane splitting to be illegal (unless someone from BRONZ is keen to do this ... it kinda is a biker rights thing).

It is difficult to argue about someone being charged with lane splitting, when no one was charged . Mainly because ,as noted below, there is no specific charge of "lane splitting" (some overseas jusrisdictions do have such a charge): and a charge on other legislation that might conceivably apply would depend very much on the circumstances.

An invitation to the polcie to say that "lane splitting is legal" is almost certain not to produce positive results. And a complaint that "motorcyclists were being warned for lanesplitting" will probably be rebutted by waffle to the effect that it is a dangerous practice and the office was acting in the interests of safety by warning motorcyclists of the danger they ran.

The fact that noone got a ticket for anything certainly indicates that the police realise that they are not on clear cut ground.

In general BRONZ will complain where motorcyclists are being specifically singled out for police attention (we have the same rights as any other road user). But, since only motorcycles can lane split, it is difficult to object to their being singled out in this case.

[BoristheBiter]

Semantics. Right?
I have no problem with anyone being ticketed for zipping in and out of traffic, passing on the left (in the same lane), passing at speed differentials that are ridiculous, etc. But any biker sitting in the rightside of the lane that is passing another vehicle at (say) 15/20kph faster when that other vehicle is travelling relatively slowly is doing nothing wrong in law. And a cop on the shoulder is not going to see where that bike is if it's in the middle or median lane, is he?

I think it's semen tactics.

See that's the ticket you get, not lane splitting. you will always find someone who will go to the letter of the law and some will use discretion.
Just one of those things. I have not heard of meny people getting a ticket for this anyway, used to in the old days when it was more a speed issue but not now.
Supose it was just one of those days.

[Ixion]

I've had a read up on the "unsafe lane change". The charge is covered in:
http://interim.legislation.govt.nz/r...html#dlm280560
and is called "Unsafe passing". The maximum fine is $150 and 35 demerits (for an individual). To get it you need to break the rules in section 2.6(1):
http://interim.legislation.govt.nz/r...&p=1#DLM303048
Only provisions (a) and (b) apply (because you are in the same lane as the car).

That means to get a ticket you have to violate these two road rules:


So unless there is some case law to refine this (and I can't find it), I don't see how the charge could be upheld.

Possibly

A driver must not, when passing another vehicle moving in the same direction, move into the line of passage of that vehicle until the manoeuvre can be made safely and without impeding the movement of that other vehicle

could be used by a zealous cop- though he would need to show that the splitting was unsafe, which sort of brings back in a circle

[p.dath]

It is difficult to argue about someone being charged with lane splitting, when no one was charged . Mainly because ,as noted below, there is no specific charge of "lane splitting" (some overseas jusrisdictions do have such a charge): and a charge on other legislation that might conceivably apply would depend very much on the circumstances....
In general BRONZ will complain where motorcyclists are being specifically singled out for police attention (we have the same rights as any other road user). But, since only motorcycles can lane split, it is difficult to object to their being singled out in this case.

So noted.

I will still contemplate writing a letter. For a defeaning silence from one group (motorcyclists) met only by the complaints of a few car users can only result in one action - the noisy party being listened to.

[Mikkel]

Overtaking in the same lane on the right hand side is legal, overtaking on the left in the same lane is a contravention of the Road Code..

...in most cases. However, if the traffic is stationary, Bob's your uncle.

just spoke to motorways unit.
It is illeagle to lane split and depending on how you do it depends on what you can be charged with ie unsafe lane change to dangerous.
normaly if is frowned upon but not enforced. if there is an accident while lane splitting it is the bikes fault always.

I think that if they give you a warning just leave it at that.

Bullshit. I hope you got his badge number, you all know where this shit is going...
And you'd have to be rather loose for him to make a dangerous charge stick - after all, he'd have to substantiate that it is beyond both careless and reckless.

I have no problem with anyone being ticketed for zipping in and out of traffic, passing on the left (in the same lane), passing at speed differentials that are ridiculous, etc. But any biker sitting in the rightside of the lane that is passing another vehicle at (say) 15/20kph faster when that other vehicle is travelling relatively slowly is doing nothing wrong in law. And a cop on the shoulder is not going to see where that bike is if it's in the middle or median lane, is he?

He must, by necessity, be in the left lane - after all there will be no space in the right-hand lane since traffic is always keeping left. (Oh, and it must be legal for you to use bike paths as well - I see cars do it all the time!)

I will still contemplate writing a letter. For a defeaning silence from one group (motorcyclists) met only by the complaints of a few car users can only result in one action - the noisy party being listened to.

You should indeed write a letter - and a formal complaint. Police officers are not allowed to mislead a citizen, and ignorance is no excuse.

[Ixion]

So noted.

I will still contemplate writing a letter. For a defeaning silence from one group (motorcyclists) met only by the complaints of a few car users can only result in one action - the noisy party being listened to.

I think it is very valid for you to write , as a directly affected party. You can ask why you were stopped, make the point that you WERE riding safely (which cannot easily be rebutted, since if you were not, the cop could scarcely have allowed you to proceed ticketless). You can object to specifics (because you were there); it is harder for BRONZ to object to the general principle.

[p.dath]

This seems to be the man in charge of the Auckland area:
http://www.police.govt.nz/district/waitemata/index.html

[Ixion]

Yes, he is Cheese-in-Chief. For some strange reason, all motorways come under Waitemata (AFAIK)