NZ Motorcycle Safety Council

**Hitcher** · 27th January 2010, 20:52

A Motorcycle Safety Council will only work if it's well funded and focuses on worthwhile initiatives like rider training, rather than on silly nonsense such as hi-vis clothing.

Funding for such an organisation will inevitably come from government because bikers themselves won't fund it. And government money inevitably comes with all sorts of compliance costs, dependence and silliness, such as $50 voucher schemes for well-dressed bikers.

**woodyracer** · 27th January 2010, 20:56

Id laugh if skiddy was the CEO!! hahahhaha

**Big Dave** · 27th January 2010, 20:59

You should talk to BRONZ - come to a meeting maybe. It has a lot of the governance already in place and it sounds like you're running in the same direction..

**Marmoot** · 27th January 2010, 21:52

Originally Posted by shrub

A website is being built even as we speak and you're right, there is a lot of good stuff coming from Europe. Thanks.

Let me know if you need any inputs. I work for a top NZ website consultancy business (advisors, not web developers).
Our specialty is to review businesses' websites and tell what's wrong with them.

**mashman** · 28th January 2010, 14:27

Originally Posted by Marmoot

Let me know if you need any inputs. I work for a top NZ website consultancy business (advisors, not web developers).
Our specialty is to review businesses' websites and tell what's wrong with them.

giz a job

**mashman** · 28th January 2010, 14:38

I know this'll get shot down in flames. I care not. We spend shitloads of money each year that offer "training". More often than not the training is only a verbal watch out for this, do that, don't do that and extend middle finger... What i would like to see is a sensible initiative. One that really trains motorcyclists how to ride. Unfortunately to do this it will involve a track, as speed and familiarity with the limits of yourself and the bike you ride are all considerations when riding on the road. Granted the track is not the road, but is by far a better place to practice things such as knowing your limits... how to apex corners and so on... To that end I would suggest that the government fund a safety initiative that involves the building of a track, something along the lines of a Nurburgring... something that isn't over in 2 or 3 minutes, but challenges a rider for about 10 - 15 minutes of varying corner types, potentially surface types, or anything else you would care to try...

I can hear it now. But it costs too much... perhaps? develop a business park around it, use it for skid pan training, use it for corporate functions, use it for whatever you like, just so long as its prime function is to allow instructors the ability to train a student as best he can in the art of handling a motorcycle. Yes and that includes speed (hence the track)!

FLAME ON!!!

**Marmoot** · 28th January 2010, 15:53

Originally Posted by mashman

giz a job

Website Psychiatrist is a real job, mate

Pays well too!

**shrub** · 29th January 2010, 02:10

Rider training is one of our biggest priorities, hence our decision to involve Mike Flowers from Mainland and Karel Pavich. It is my belief that the overwhelming majority of crashes, regardless of who causes them, can be prevented by actions taken (or not taken) by the motorcyclist because riding bikes safely is something that is learned and that (most) crashes are not bad luck.

For example, a few weeks ago I was heading home and following an SUV down a quiet suburban road. The driver slowed right down for no apparent reason, and the logical thing to do would be to mutter something and overtake, but even though car drivers are often a little irrational, they don't just slow down for the sheer hell of it, so I slowed down and dropped back. Sure enough the woman driving did something - she turned right into the driveway she was looking for. If I had overtaken her, she would have been in the wrong, but I would have been in hospital.

ACC have specifically asked us to do some research on what good rider training looks like, and having done a few courses and after about 20 years solid bike ownership I have a few ideas of my own. I have also gained access to quite a lot of research on post license rider training conducted overseas, and it's bloody interesting. It is my opinion that there is a need for track based training so people can practise cornering, braking and evasion in a safe environment, but my experience of track based training days is that it gets too easy to turn it into just another track day. Not that that is all bad...

**dangerous** · 29th January 2010, 04:17

Ya know, the thing is no one reason caused Ewans death, what if he had been paying attention, what if the bike he was following had a brake light, what if he reacted diferently, lots of whet if's.
A road cant be blamed for an acco, sinage or lack of can, faulty or lack of safty gear/bike, lack of training etc.. hell its a tricky one.

Hey this is a great idea, I suport it, but it also starts with the rider not the GVT.
Beter training for licencing
beter road sinage
You can increase a riders awearness, but they have to want to improve, but theres sweet fuck all you can do for the avarage cage driver, this is a massive mission ya on Shrub, we should talk.

**T.W.R** · 29th January 2010, 07:12

Originally Posted by dangerous

Hey this is a great idea, I suport it, but it also starts with the rider not the GVT.
Beter training for licencing

You can increase a riders awearness, but they have to want to improve.

The Rider is the biggest obsticle of all; Personal attitude, perception, approach of each individual all contribute to how they'll survive out on the roads. You can whip a horse till your arm is falling off, but it'll still do things you don't want it to/or know is wrong; Rider training is great in the fact it increases individuals abilities & application within the learning enviroment of the course...but it's the retention of whats learnt that's the issue. Rider training is a form of manipulation molding the individual into a pre-percieved idea of what should be, it doesn't always work because of the fact your dealing with individuals & individual perception...... retention of what has been taught is upto the individual and as with any learning enviroment only so much info is retained and that's where the breakdown begins as everyone applies what they learn differently. Even some people who have done said courses have still been seen making some of the most dangerous fundemental errors. A perfect student in the classroom doesn't always make it successfully in the real world.

**Katman** · 29th January 2010, 07:37

Originally Posted by shrub

There's a saying - how do you eat an elephant? Answer - one bite at a time

There's another one - Bite off more than you can chew and then chew like fuck.

Good on you for your efforts.

**Quasievil** · 29th January 2010, 07:39

Get a NZ Safety standard or minimum specification for Bike gear to wipe "the crap Trademe shit gear" being sold to bikers.

**Katman** · 29th January 2010, 07:39

Originally Posted by T.W.R

The Rider is the biggest obsticle of all; Personal attitude, perception, approach of each individual all contribute to how they'll survive out on the roads.

Exactly.

We need to lose the attitude that everything else is to blame other than ourselves.

Whether the car driver sees us or not, it's up to us to see the car driver.

**CookMySock** · 29th January 2010, 07:44

Too much good stuff to quote, but basically you are shovelling it uphill if you think riders (who need it) are going to turn up voluntarily for training.

The bottom line is, the method by which riders get their licenses has to change. With no initial training and no support, a year down the track all their bad habits are fully ingrained and you won't recover them without ten times the amount of work.

Adopt the French motorcycle training system. No person is allowed on the road on a big road bike without full and complete training and substantial evaluation. It's not cheap, but thats too bad. Crashing isn't cheap either, but everyone accepts that as normal, so they can get over it.

Until the government decides to actually do something about the problem nothing will change. They make too much money from the licensing system right now to consider changing it, and they are putting the price up as we speak, so realistically why do you think they will do something about the "problem" when they make so much cash from it? They are about perpetuating their growth industries and mliking them for cash, just like all their other businesses (police, ACC, etc.) They don't care about people until said people bite them. So bite them.

Flinging small change at "safety" organisations gives the image of "doing something about it", but thats about all, and gives the government breathing space to further ignore the real issue.

Steve