New 600 production class

[Nonbeliever]

Up until this year sidecars quite frequently feilded bigger feilds than SBK and the only reason we didn't this year was being shafted by MNZ, I think they should can the litre bikes and give the rest of us more laps

at levels there were 6 rigs? with a 20second difference (per lap!!!!)1st-last right?

sorry but where's the attraction in that?

[Drew]

STREET tyres,not dot legal racerubber.A decent road tyre these days can be ridden suprisingly hard, and also aren't too bad in the wet, yeah sure you still have to ride to the conditions just like whetheryour running slicks, wets whatever.They are also waaay less prone to tearing and therefore will not have the chance of destroying itself like racerubber.
It's all about getting more bikes on grids,and the top guys will still compete in the top class.Someting like this would be a great stepping stone to 600ss or sbk or just a chance for john doe to have some close racing on his streetbike

I run supercorsers on the road, that makes 'em street rubber in my book. Give me an axample of your idea of "street rubber" please.

[Drew]

at levels there were 6 rigs? with a 20second difference 1st-last right?

sorry but where's the attraction in that?

And last year there were a total of 9 superbikes, with A LAP between first and last. What is your point?

[lostinflyz]

STREET tyres,not dot legal racerubber.A decent road tyre these days can be ridden suprisingly hard, and also aren't too bad in the wet, yeah sure you still have to ride to the conditions just like whetheryour running slicks, wets whatever.They are also waaay less prone to tearing and therefore will not have the chance of destroying itself like racerubber.
It's all about getting more bikes on grids,and the top guys will still compete in the top class.Someting like this would be a great stepping stone to 600ss or sbk or just a chance for john doe to have some close racing on his streetbike

top guys want to be top where they can, if they cant win sbk/600, they (well some) will go to a streetbike class or a lower level.. the racing will be no closer than anywhere else. as you said club racing is for club racers. nats is for those who take racing a little more serious. I cant see john doe taking 2 weeks off to come to the south island, or heading up north 2 months in a rown for just a bit of close racing.

as for street tyres, i've never seen a decent rider push them so i have no idea what they would do on a 600/1000. as for riding them in the wet, i know you'd end up with 1/3 the grid finishing,1/3 the grid in the gravel trap and 1/3 the grid still in the pits. its just way to expensive to crash a modern 600/1000, particularly in the wet, flipping it through gravel traps.

[Drew]

as for street tyres, i've never seen a decent rider push them so i have no idea what they would do on a 600/1000. as for riding them in the wet, i know you'd end up with 1/3 the grid finishing,1/3 the grid in the gravel trap and 1/3 the grid still in the pits. its just way to expensive to crash a modern 600/1000, particularly in the wet, flipping it through gravel traps.

Dunno about decent rider, but sports tourers are not a good tyre for the track on a thou. My K2 would destroy a set in a couple sessions at Manfield.

[Biggles08]

Couldn't agree more Billy! It seems silly changing the rules for the nationals when every other race meeting is based on F1 and F2 rules. I guess it has something to do with trying to maintain some uniformity internationally or something.

[Kickaha]

Couldn't agree more Billy! It seems silly changing the rules for the nationals when every other race meeting is based on F1 and F2 rules. I guess it has something to do with trying to maintain some uniformity internationally or something.

The other meetings are based on F1/F2 to get more bikes on the grid that don't comply with the current 600/SBK rules

Did you get anymore crash videos from levels to show us

[k14]

STREET tyres,not dot legal racerubber.A decent road tyre these days can be ridden suprisingly hard, and also aren't too bad in the wet, yeah sure you still have to ride to the conditions just like whetheryour running slicks, wets whatever.They are also waaay less prone to tearing and therefore will not have the chance of destroying itself like racerubber.
It's all about getting more bikes on grids,and the top guys will still compete in the top class.Someting like this would be a great stepping stone to 600ss or sbk or just a chance for john doe to have some close racing on his streetbike

And you know this how? If you chucked on a set of (insert touring tyre brand/model here) and rode them hard they would be terrible. I can gaurantee there would be crashes galore because they are being used for a purpose for which they weren't designed. That and the fact they would probably last less than the current dot tyres that get used.

If they did the classes you suggest all that would happen is the current classes would be diluted more. There was 19 600's at ruapuna, what is the problem there? Yes there have only been ~10 superbikes but that is an improvement on last year and hopefully next year there will be a few more.

[Drew]

I dont think the numbers issue in NZ racing can be solved with class changes alone anyway.

Yep, this would be an exciting class along with stock 1000's. But it's not a cheap alternative to anything. 600's are a cheap alternative to a thou now, yet the numbers aren't great.

Starting new classes at the nationals is a balls up to my mind too. Club racing is where things should be implemented and established first. And it's MNZ's job to make that happen, ("to grow the sport").

[Peter Smith]

As I've mention before, The BIGGEST problem with the future of motorcycle road racing is that the youngsters today aren't interested in bikes.
E.G. Pukekohe had a drift car meeting and it was packed, 2 weekend later the bikes are there and only a handful of spectators turned up.
A good second hand 600 costs $10,000 so they buy a skyline instead.
The loss of the 250 proddy class many years ago, lost the stepping stone for beginners to get to 600's. (Tony Rees etc started on 250's)
And to be honest the 600's today are very quick and not really suited for beginners.
The introduction of the 250 class again is a great idea but may take a while to get back to the levels of the early days. (I must be getting old to remember them)

[KS34]

And it's MNZ's job to make that happen, ("to grow the sport").

I think youve hit the nail on the head Drew! I've been talking to my sponsors or more acurately suppliers with discount and Motorcycle racing is an unknown, Fuck all people know much about it, Slotmedia a sponsor also sponsors drifting and speedway and the exposure and people that go to those sports that spend money is huge, at drift meets there are full car parks with guys and girls itching to spend money we dont have that in bike racing, MNZ have only managed to get two rounds televised and christ knows what has happened to the first and we dont have any highlights on the news! What I'm trying to say is MNZ have to get the profile of the sport up so it gets tv coverage so we can get sponsors so we can race and so we get bigger grids. We have a great spectacle its just no one knows or is interested in it.

[KS34]

As I've mention before, The BIGGEST problem with the future of motorcycle road racing is that the youngsters today aren't interested in bikes.
E.G. Pukekohe had a drift car meeting and it was packed, 2 weekend later the bikes are there and only a handful of spectators turned up.
A good second hand 600 costs $10,000 so they buy a skyline instead.
The loss of the 250 proddy class many years ago, lost the stepping stone for beginners to get to 600's. (Tony Rees etc started on 250's)
And to be honest the 600's today are very quick and not really suited for beginners.
The introduction of the 250 class again is a great idea but may take a while to get back to the levels of the early days. (I must be getting old to remember them)

Thats another great point.

[slowpoke]

There is simply no-one winning nationals premier classes on a bike that isn't the current model though.

I want to win races, not start them knowing it cant be done.

I dunno mate, if Stroudy or Robbie was on their old well sorted K7/8 gsxr's I reckon they'd still be well in the hunt. James Smith and Choppa have shown they are still very competitive.....and all for less than the cost of a new GSXR, and less than half the cost of a K9 RCMP GSXR. Bargain.

Can't win=no race? So why even race at Club level then? Sketchy hands us our arse on a plate on a lousy 600, and like it or not he always will. We've all got our different motivations but to me it's like sex, even coming last is still fun.

On your logic you'll never enter the National's even if you were cashed up. There's no way you'll rock up to a new track and win, therefore you'd never race.

Hopefully NOT!In fact the best thing they could do would be dump Production Superbike and 600sp in favour of these 2 classes and reintroduce F1 and F2 at national level.The current format is clearly NOT working and it appears too me no matter who is at the helm of MNZ,The format remains the same,Isnt it the first sign of insanity doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result ???.Its obvious too me the whole National series needs a revamp,There are 10 races a year for production superbike and 600sp,All the rest are F1 and F2 and yet the experts turn up at a winter series meet and ask, Why dont all these people come too our National meetings

Yep, couldn't agree more, and exactly the reason why I bought a full monty Superbike after seriously considering a Stock bike: for the same money I got a bike that is going to be a far more competitive Club/Street race bike over a longer period of time. It was a no brainer when I did the figures.

I also know a couple of folks who would have seriously considered entering but for the lack of a homologated bike. And as per the F3 guys it can be cost effective in the longer term with upgrading/improving your existing bike rather than turfing the whole lot and starting again every coupla years.

Then again the series is part funded by the manufacturers so it's fair enough that they want to showcase new(er) bikes.

[slowpoke]

[QUOTE=Drew;1129636378]

The loss of the 250 proddy class many years ago, lost the stepping stone for beginners to get to 600's. (Tony Rees etc started on 250's)
And to be honest the 600's today are very quick and not really suited for beginners.
The introduction of the 250 class again is a great idea but may take a while to get back to the levels of the early days. (I must be getting old to remember them)

Nah, I don't really agree with this. In a way we've almost got too many avenues for folks to progress through the ranks. If I was a 16year old on a streetstock looking to progress through the ranks there are a heap of options: GP125, Clubman's, post classic's, pro-twins, F3, old 600, all of which give an intermediate option to the latest and greatest 600 for much less than $10k. The options are there, look how much young Ivan wants for what looks like a very tidy pro-twin bike ($5500, you owe me for the plug young fulla))....I mean how much cheaper do you want it?

I kinda think the difference between now and the old 250 proddy days is that 250 proddy's were the only sort of lightweight class, with just about everyone transiting through it which had huge knock on effects in the quality of the racing and riders it produced. Those same classes bikes/classes applied to today would probably see Glen Williams, Avalon Biddle, Sam Love, Sketchy, Hoogie's galore, Terry Fitzgerald, Jay Lawrence, Kirk Pritchard, Neil Chappell etc etc all battling away in one class, because that was the only stepping stone. Instead they're strewn across several classes, and the new 250 class is just going to further dilute things 'cos people will go where they can get the best result, not the best competition. They'd rather finish 3rd in a field of 6 pro twins than 10th in a field of 30 250's.

[Billy]

Yep, couldn't agree more, and exactly the reason why I bought a full monty Superbike after seriously considering a Stock bike: for the same money I got a bike that is going to be a far more competitive Club/Street race bike over a longer period of time. It was a no brainer when I did the figures.

I also know a couple of folks who would have seriously considered entering but for the lack of a homologated bike. And as per the F3 guys it can be cost effective in the longer term with upgrading/improving your existing bike rather than turfing the whole lot and starting again every coupla years.

Then again the series is part funded by the manufacturers so it's fair enough that they want to showcase new(er) bikes.[/QUOTE]

Exactly my point,By running a 1000 and 600 superstock class as well as F1 and F2 it gives everyone a result.Sure its not going to make a huge difference to the amount of people doing the whole series,But it will be more encouraging for people to participate at their local round and easier for the lesser riders to qualify as they would be on the more powerful machinery.Add to that the new 250 pro light class and the sport would definitely be moving in the right direction.We have already developed a competitively priced body kit for the Kawasaki EX250 and are currently working with Fergus and Ken from Hyosung NZ in developing kits for both the early and new fuel injected models of their 250 range.Both these distributors are commited to this new class as are we