"Bold steps" by the g'ment - changes announced at 2pm today

[Pascal]

How does one feel about being lied to? ... i know it pisses me off (voted national here)

It actually doesn't bother me too much. Michael Cullen and his ilk handed National a poisonous financial chalice, after frittering away 9 years of healthy, good surpluses on useless bullshit, Hip Hop tours, toy train sets and what not. Prior to the election, when National was unaware that Labour had fucked New Zealand over financially, I'm sure they had no intentions of raising GST.

But then, once the real shit we'd been dumped in by those fucking socialists came to light, what do you expect? Of course they're going to make adjustments to their plans. Not to do so would be stupid. And they're looking at increasing taxes on consumption and reducing taxes on wealth generation. That's a bonus. More people saving. More people trying to better their lives. They're going to be creating the right types of incentives to take us out of a "Gimme because I want" culture into one where people take responsibility for their own lives and forge forward on their own, within a healthy, good society.

So yeah, good on John Key for taking the political hit but doing the smart thing. I'd rather have them change their minds because the circumstances have changed than having them stick to their guns into the face of all stupidity ...

...I don't understand why it wouldn't be possible to leave it at 12.5% on food and make it higher on luxuries though...

:nods: Follow Adam's pyramid, aye?

[Skyryder]

It actually doesn't bother me too much. Michael Cullen and his ilk handed National a poisonous financial chalice, after frittering away 9 years of healthy, good surpluses on useless bullshit, Hip Hop tours, toy train sets and what not. Prior to the election, when National was unaware that Labour had fucked New Zealand over financially, I'm sure they had no intentions of raising GST.

But then, once the real shit we'd been dumped in by those fucking socialists came to light, what do you expect? Of course they're going to make adjustments to their plans. Not to do so would be stupid. And they're looking at increasing taxes on consumption and reducing taxes on wealth generation. That's a bonus. More people saving. More people trying to better their lives. They're going to be creating the right types of incentives to take us out of a "Gimme because I want" culture into one where people take responsibility for their own lives and forge forward on their own, within a healthy, good society.

So yeah, good on John Key for taking the political hit but doing the smart thing. I'd rather have them change their minds because the circumstances have changed than having them stick to their guns into the face of all stupidity ...



:nods: Follow Adam's pyramid, aye?

I suppose you also believe the bullshit that Nick Smith has used for the justification of raising the Biker ACC levies.

Skyryder

[mashman]

I suppose you also believe the bullshit that Nick Smith has used for the justification of raising the Biker ACC levies.

Skyryder

Pascal has a point man. Just because you say one thing and do another, doesn't instantly mean that you always meant to do it, especially when there's the economy of a country relying on the decision made.

Don't get me wrong, i think the proposed changes are robbing peter to pay paul... i'm just worried that Paul is already a rich bastard.

[The Stranger:Me]

No limitations for undisclosed property dealings (or any other income), if the IRD have been misled, your in the gun, and chances are records have been biffed.

That is interesting in that the IRD used a 7yr statute of limitations in declining claims from the aftermath of the 87 sharemarket crash and the resultant property market crash.
Many rightly declared themselves traders and claimed to their losses. All of a sudden the IRD about faced on what constituted a trader and declined the claims.
When the claims of some were finally upheld many many years later, if you hadn't claimed or appealed their earlier decision within 7yrs they refused to accept the claim.

[Pascal]

I suppose you also believe the bullshit that Nick Smith has used for the justification of raising the Biker ACC levies.

Have you been listening to National peddle shit on this whole budget issue? They don't know which side of the fence they're coming from. So there's no regurgitating a party line here, thank you. I'm guessing at how events have unfolded, given what we know about the shit that has been discovered since the Labour party left office. (You know, those massive deficits and associated problems caused by their overspending).

So, when people see massive changes, increases in ACC levies, refusals to increase salaries for state sector/ no increases in budgets for hospitals or other services, etc. just remember that there is one group of people to blame for that. Michael Cullen, Helen Clark and the rest of the Labour party.

Remember the root cause of all these problems and don't bitch because the government of the day is trying their best to:

(a) Change our culture away from dependancy on the state to one of individual ability and accomplishment
(b) Recover from the worst financial crisis the world has seen in 80+ years
(c) Attempt to recover from the financial shithouse the previous government caused despite the massive surpluses they carried.

Mashman, I see your point about Peter and Paul. The positive things for me in this is:

(a) They've indicated that any changes would not leave low income earners worse off, unless they own investment properties
(b) It shifts the tax from earnings to a tax on consumption, thus incentivising saving rather than spending
(c) That might lead to more investment inside New Zealand with less of our money going to China for cheap Warehouse plastic
(d) It slowly begins to change the attitude of people in the country as we are rewarded for improving ourselves, instead of trying to stay below the "Rich Prick" threshold of the poverty line to collect welfare

It seems positive to me. Probably won't be, given the history of politicans and the way best intentions end, but hey!

[Skyryder]

Pascal has a point man. Just because you say one thing and do another, doesn't instantly mean that you always meant to do it, especially when there's the economy of a country relying on the decision made.

Don't get me wrong, i think the proposed changes are robbing peter to pay paul... i'm just worried that Paul is already a rich bastard.

Point or not it's another u-turn if Key raises GST. It's not as if this is unknown for Key to do.

The interesting thing that I find in all of this is that Key maintains that he has forgotten what he said. Now that may be true.

It is also 'equally' true that when you make a statement that you mean you tend to remember; it's the 'lies' that are forgotton.


Skyryder

[Tank]

Point or not it's another u-turn if Key raises GST. It's not as if this is unknown for Key to do.

I note in the video they dont have the question - and Key has said it was in direct reply to would they raise GST to cover the huge fucken deficit labour left us. He said no - and nor has he.

But - hey show a clip out of full context and take from it what you may.

[Tank]

Point or not it's another u-turn if Key raises GST. It's not as if this is unknown for Key to do.

The interesting thing that I find in all of this is that Key maintains that he has forgotten what he said. Now that may be true.

it's the 'lies' that are forgotton.


Skyryder

Or in labours case - often shredded.

[Skyryder]

Have you been listening to National peddle shit on this whole budget issue? They don't know which side of the fence they're coming from. So there's no regurgitating a party line here, thank you. I'm guessing at how events have unfolded, given what we know about the shit that has been discovered since the Labour party left office. (You know, those massive deficits and associated problems caused by their overspending).

So, when people see massive changes, increases in ACC levies, refusals to increase salaries for state sector/ no increases in budgets for hospitals or other services, etc. just remember that there is one group of people to blame for that. Michael Cullen, Helen Clark and the rest of the Labour party.

Remember the root cause of all these problems and don't bitch because the government of the day is trying their best to:

(a) Change our culture away from dependancy on the state to one of individual ability and accomplishment
(b) Recover from the worst financial crisis the world has seen in 80+ years
(c) Attempt to recover from the financial shithouse the previous government caused despite the massive surpluses they carried.

Mashman, I see your point about Peter and Paul. The positive things for me in this is:

(a) They've indicated that any changes would not leave low income earners worse off, unless they own investment properties
(b) It shifts the tax from earnings to a tax on consumption, thus incentivising saving rather than spending
(c) That might lead to more investment inside New Zealand with less of our money going to China for cheap Warehouse plastic
(d) It slowly begins to change the attitude of people in the country as we are rewarded for improving ourselves, instead of trying to stay below the "Rich Prick" threshold of the poverty line to collect welfare

It seems positive to me. Probably won't be, given the history of politicans and the way best intentions end, but hey!

Problem is .............if you lie about one policy and the reasons for it how do you know that the other policies are not built on lies too?

Skyryder

[mashman]

I note in the video they dont have the question - and Key has said it was in direct reply to would they raise GST to cover the huge fucken deficit labour left us. He said no - and nor has he.

But - hey show a clip out of full context and take from it what you may.

Heh, they're liars, but they ain't stoopid... I saw the full story too, but again you have to take away from it what you want... for me personally, the message i take from it is... same shit different day...

[Mully]

The interesting thing that I find in all of this is that Key maintains that he has forgotten what he said. Now that may be true.

The interview I saw on Te News when they asked him (about the video clip) was that the question was whether he was going to raise GST to cover the deficit. He didn't say anything about forgetting.

Still - I like the idea (provided the tax cuts actually happen) - moving taxation from compulsory to descretionary - it'll let us pay off the house faster.

[mashman]

Point or not it's another u-turn if Key raises GST. It's not as if this is unknown for Key to do.

The interesting thing that I find in all of this is that Key maintains that he has forgotten what he said. Now that may be true.

It is also 'equally' true that when you make a statement that you mean you tend to remember; it's the 'lies' that are forgotton.


Skyryder

but a lying politician is nothing new... he did mention that they wouldn't use it to cover the deficit... nice and easy that... make GST cover the drop in income tax and pay off the deficit through some other stealth tax. It shows that Key didn't lie... but i don't necessarily think he told the truth either... who cares, he's a politician, he can say what he likes and do something entirely different "to protect the country"...

Don't focus on the man. There are 20 like him all queueng up for the job!

[Mully]

a lying politician is nothing new.

Well yeah, there is that.......

[Pascal]

Problem is .............if you lie about one policy and the reasons for it how do you know that the other policies are not built on lies too?

You're pulling it to extremes, focussing on a very narrow thing without considering the change in circumstances. Let's look at it simply. Would you rather:

(a) John Key stick to his original statement, despite the change in circumstances and leave New Zealand up shit creek?
(b) John Key change the plans of this government to give us a chance to clean up this mess, now that the situation has changed?

Or in biking terms - you're hooning down the motorway at 260km/h. You see both lanes are blocked with no room around them. Do you:

(a) Keep going at 260km/h because that was your original plan?
(b) Slow down and find a way around, even if that changes your original plan?

I'd pick (b), personally.

[Tank]

You're pulling it to extremes, focussing on a very narrow thing without considering the change in circumstances. Let's look at it simply. Would you rather:

(a) John Key stick to his original statement, despite the change in circumstances and leave New Zealand up shit creek?
(b) John Key change the plans of this government to give us a chance to clean up this mess, now that the situation has changed?

Or in biking terms - you're hooning down the motorway at 260km/h. You see both lanes are blocked with no room around them. Do you:

(a) Keep going at 260km/h because that was your original plan?
(b) Slow down and find a way around, even if that changes your original plan?

I'd pick (b), personally.

Pascal - I think I like you.