Forum whore
RT does offer a whole range of suspension services to suit any budget.Originally Posted by Howie
I do believe that no matter what your budget is... you will get the best bang for your buck (no matter how much it is) if spent with a specialist. That's the whole point.
Hardcore Biker
Yep specialist advice can be very good for technical areas of any product/process. However as has been pointed out before not everyone wants to pay the premium for that advice. If after doing my own research by reading books, talking to people who own/use the same product I come up with the idea that I need say new springs in my forks at XX rating then I want to source them at the best price I can. Not pay a premium for something that is likely to not need any on going servicing, or maintenance costs for the rest of it's serviceable life. Of course that means I am taking on the responsibility that I have made the right rating choice for what I want the product to do, and have no means to redress that should they be wrong other than purchase some different ones. Then try to on sell the ones that were wrong. Which of course the interweb makes easier to do these days. It all comes down to freedom of choice, and some well choose to spend money for value added advice and support, others well choose to go the way of doing their own research and saving $$ to spend elsewhere, where you fit in that area is upto you. I know riders who get all their servicing/ maintenance including oil changes completed by bike shops, and I also know riders who do all their own work through to full bike rebuilds, just using specialist's where they deem the tooling/ expertise warrants the cost. Where you fit into that variety of choice is up to the individual, and how confident/ competent they are at that sort of work.
Where Businesses fit themselves into the market is also upto them, but for better or worse it really is a Global economy now, and so small Buisness have to be prepared to be compitive within that environment.
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Interesting read.
My view (not that anybody cares, but...):
- If you don't know what you are doing, pay for the help!
- If you need a bolt on bit and you can get it for 50% from overseas, then you would be an idiot paying double the price in NZ. No matter how patriotic you feel at the moment.
- $2.5K + for a shock???? You guys have too much money! My last s/h one cost $200 (and came with a box of bits including a backwheel with a good tyre, a dentfree tank, computer, fuel injectors, and list goes on. And that was all part of the price!)
- If you are racing at top level and have sponsors/money, then why not. But if you are riding on the road and you think you need to spend that money to get around a corner faster, then I suggest that the shocks are not your problem...
Rider Coach
You don't have to be at the "Top Level" to get an advantage out of top quality suspension....
It is really a case of, "You don't know what you don't know" for many riders/ Racers out there...
The thing is that the shocks may well not help you corner faster, but they will ensure the bike responds to rider input, and a corner how it is supposed to.
Forum whore
Actually Robert, this puts you in a very good light.
You opted not to work on the shock, and gave clear reasons....."some guy in England" didn't give any reason why they are "so easy to work on"
I am glad this guy posted the email.
Forum whore
Sorry mate, but I think this paragraph shows hoe out of touch you are with both the NZ motorcycle scene, and the general racer.
Believe me, there is no way in hell you could get a kiwi racer to pay anywhere near the required rate for suspension advice/mods at the track. All the top guys want it for free, (infact everyone does)
The only reason Öhlins suspension is so good, is because they have an excellent ability to be customised for each rider/bike/track.
This however (as we all know) is a black art, and if you don't know what you are doing, it's all for nothing.
I refuse to accept that any distributor (be it suspension, or what ever) should be forced to do anything for free on a parallel imported product.
I know that CKT will work on a Parallel imported item, but charge "full rates", where as, if you buy from them, soi much is simply not charged (i.e, worked into the price)
We have all rung Robert/asked for help at the track, and always recieve some sort of advice (years ago, he actually advised me that a new shock would not help the problem I was having, simply a new spring was required and I assure you if he had said it would, I would have purchased one)
Believe me, if CKT turned up at a raceday (nationals or otherwise), with a tent, charging for simple advise, they would be howled at, and never recover enough money to pay for the stickers on the tent.
I can hear the conversation now.
"ok sir, I spent 20 minutes giving you advise on your (standard) suspension settings on your GSX-R-600, that's $65 (plus GST)"
"what, you can't charge me for that"
Try that at you local GP who simply gives you some antibiotics, and charges you about the same.
But, if you build it into the price, it (believe it or not) is an easier pill to swallow.
Hardcore Biker
I believe it show's how in touch he is with the motorcycle scene away from the race track, and a small percentage of road/ trail riders. Why should those who ride on the road, and want quality products pay a premiumin by the way of extra markup to subsidise the suport of a minority of people? Hence the need to look elsewhere to source the product.
No problem at all with that.
So you got good quality adivice that solved an issue for you, that is what value added service is about.
Maybe that is a Business model for the future, if the increased markup on his products to cover his support of the sporting end of the market is putting off to many potenial purchases from dealing with his business!
Tell me do other Businesses offer service's such as tyre fitting for a fee at race meetings?? Do riders complain about that?
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Forum whore
I had a "contribution" prepared with lots quotes and rebuttals blah de blah blah....but fucked it off, 'cos basically it comes down to "typical Warehouse mentality" Kiwi's wanting the cheapest shit they can find, and damn the consequences.
We go 'round the bike shops trying on helmets, and jackets etc....then go and buy the stuff over the internet. 6 months later we're moaning 'cos Turnbull's or some other bike shop have folded and we can't find a decent shop that stocks what we want even though we never actually buy what we want from them anyway.
The letter above is a classic example of that mentality. Robert (in this case, but could be any one of a number of specialists) spends 15-20 min's distilling a lifetime of work experience into a recommendation for gratis, nix, nada, not a cracker. Sure (insert specialist here) may recoup some of that costs but by and large the ratio of enquiries to purchases isn't great, as any one man business will know when they are trying to get something done without the blardy phone ringing its box of. They're damned if they do answer the phone, and damned if they don't.
So sooner or later we'll end up with Warehouse Motorcycling. El cheapo $5 oil filters, $150 "top quality" helmets, generic clothing/accessories and runout stock bikes, with grinning 16year olds only too happy to provide "expert" assistance. Welcome to motorcycling 2020....and 80% of the motorcycling population are quite happy with this. If all you are after is a Made in Mexico Two Bro's slip-on for your Hyosung 250/650 (biggest selling sportsbike in Australia) and a new HJC helmet, what's not to like?
But I still don't understand the venom within the original and later posts. Why the personal animosity? It's your $, you can spend it where you like so if you don't like a price just move on and shut the fuck up. Robert's business is going OK so he's obviously doing something right, you can still buy your shit from soemone else if you don't want the service he's providing, so what's the bloody problem? The whingers are talking about businesses adapting due to the changing retail landscape, yet they are the ones bent out of shape and unable to adapt.
What's that? They've tied up a good product you want so you can't get it cheaper? Sounds a lil' like a supply and demand situation.....bugger, me looks like they know a thing or two about retail after all, eh?
Forum whore
Have you considered that the sporting end of the market (be it road or off road) is the driver for the suspension improvements that flow on through other segments? The other segments aren't so much subsidising the sporting guys as riding on their coat tails, sucking up all their R and D for next to nothing. Where do you think those "quality products" (and businesses) you talk about are developed? How do you think they got the reputation for being "quality products" (and businesses)? Ohlins, Penske,WP, CKT, Dukic, Ray Clee, Moto Dynamix etc have knowledge and reputations that have been hard won on the track and now you want to say "Sorry, I don't need that."? Best you get along to The Warehouse motorcycle department and have a chat to one of their 16 year old experts.
Forum whore
I would happily pay Robert to tune the suspension trackside. $65 sounds like a bargain.
Hardcore Biker
Agree 100% mate, the pom just made himself look like a DICK. Robert spent all that time to explain why He would not try to do the job ( Quality Control) and this guys uses that time to try and be little him on here, ha ha ha
I fear the day technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots! ALBERT EINSTEIN
Hardcore Biker
If some one asks me for a Wharehouse product or Wharehouse product job doing, I refer them to the Internet
I fear the day technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots! ALBERT EINSTEIN
Enjoys doing what he does
Thats about the size of it Shaun.
If you want it cheap, go buy it cheap, the internet is your friend. But dont come winging when its broke or dont work. You paid your money so suck it up.
If you want garanteed top quality stuff with a top aftersales service, on track support, free advise and exchange offers then support the established players in the game and look at the guys trying to establish themselves. Without the dedication of the likes of Rob, Phil, Shaun, Ray & others out there doing the best they can and god forbid try and make a living doing it NZ would be a lot worse of for it.
The only time I go off shore is if it is not available here, but I make sure I've had a bloody good look first.
Forum whore
i think you are missing the point somewhat Paul.Robert is trying to run a business and his product is no doubt at the top end of the market.However people import the same product at a price cheaper than he may because there is inconsistent application of "duty" etc for personal importers.That aint right.If you bring in a shock that cost you 1200 US then you should pay whats due..All this arguing about getting stuff cheaper overseas can be bought to a logical extreme.Half of us would be out of work because nearly everything can be sourced cheaper out of NZ.The rest of us would very quickly follow.I beleive this is what RT refers to when he says support the local.
Hardcore Biker
I have a fairly simple policy,
1/ If I can't source it locally & the item will not need servicing or a warranty then I will buy on the internet.
2/ If I can source locally & the price is somewhere near the internet price I'll buy here.
3/ If the item will need servicing or warranty I will always buy locally , that does not include the
' Parallel Importers '
I had a serious look around before spending a large amount of money on shocks for the Scram.
RT was probaby the dearest but provided the best backup & service by a country mile.
Racetech & RT have obviously come to a commercial arrangement that works for both parties, A tidy situation that allows Racetech stuff to be distributed here in a professional manner with advertising , promotion , technical advice , service & backup. This quality service could not be provided if Ractech undermined RT by selling direct over the net , to me it is a no brainer on Ractech's part & sensible business practice on RT's part
Undoubtedly it will cost Racetech / RT a few sales to those driven by the savings of a few dollars . They are the tyre kickers whose business is of little value.
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