15% GST

[Winston001]

None of us like any tax but the one thing that can be said when GST was introduced in NZ, the govt got it right. No exemptions.

The moment you introduce exceptions to any rule, people start looking for ways out. That leads to arguments, prosecutions, court cases and a whole lot of misery. The Pringles case is a good illustration. None of which helps anybody in the long term.

GST in NZ (as compared with other nations) is very simple - and it works.

[nallac]

Well, no - a Big Mac (for example, have you noticed how everyone goes McDs?) is processed

My thoughts were:
Fresh fruit
Fresh Veg
Fresh Meat/Fish
Fresh milk
Maybe fresh bread

GST exempt - everything else 15%.

Just as a starting point.

I'm just saying that Australia made it too complicated - if this ever became a potential option, you'd want to make it as simple as possible.

While it is a bloody good Idea, it would be a nightmare to bring in to practise.

what about cereals..
tinned food ,fruit,tuna etc..
Pastas..
the above mentioned Rice milk for lactose intolerent...

just too much to go thru...
Either all or none.....

[Mully]

While it is a bloody good Idea, it would be a nightmare to bring in to practise.

what about cereals..
tinned food ,fruit,tuna etc..
Pastas..
the above mentioned Rice milk for lactose intolerent...

just too much to go thru...
Either all or none.....

Yeah - which is probably why they've never bothered trying.

[The Stranger:Me]

Bottled water is an abomination. We got along just fine without it in the past. It is an unnecessary product and should be taxed at 15%.

Thank you for demonstrating in such a clear an unequivocal manner exactly why your idea sucks.

Just back from buying my bottled water for the weekend.
we could boil it, but I'm not so sure that would be any better environmentally anyway.
Sure we used to get along fine in the past, however whilst you were stuck in the past mother nature kept right on trucking and gave us the wonderful gift of giardia. Try it some time, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Anyway, just look at the comments in this thread then imagine how your idea is going to go down. Personally I have no doubt Roger Douglas got it right in this case.

[MikeL]

Thank you for demonstrating in such a clear an unequivocal manner exactly why your idea sucks.

Just back from buying my bottled water for the weekend.
we could boil it, but I'm not so sure that would be any better environmentally anyway.
Sure we used to get along fine in the past, however whilst you were stuck in the past mother nature kept right on trucking and gave us the wonderful gift of giardia. Try it some time, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Anyway, just look at the comments in this thread then imagine how your idea is going to go down. Personally I have no doubt Roger Douglas got it right in this case.

You fail to grasp my point. Nobody would stop you buying bottled water - you would just have to pay GST on it, just as you would on pate de foie gras and McDonalds and other non-essential products.
I presume you are heading off to the wilderness, and bottled water is no doubt a necessity. But you don't have to buy it - why not fill up some containers from your tap before you go??

The notion that bought water is a necessity nowadays is the result of relentless clever advertising, just as the notion that differential GST rates is too complex is the result of insidious publicity by those who place business "efficiency" above the interests of the common people. If more people started to question the messages that they receive, perhaps they would start to live their own lives, not those pre-programmed for them by the wealthy and powerful.

[Skyryder]

You fail to grasp my point. Nobody would stop you buying bottled water - you would just have to pay GST on it, just as you would on pate de foie gras and McDonalds and other non-essential products.
I presume you are heading off to the wilderness, and bottled water is no doubt a necessity. But you don't have to buy it - why not fill up some containers from your tap before you go??

The notion that bought water is a necessity nowadays is the result of relentless clever advertising, just as the notion that differential GST rates is too complex is the result of insidious publicity by those who place business "efficiency" above the interests of the common people. If more people started to question the messages that they receive, perhaps they would start to live their own lives, not those pre-programmed for them by the wealthy and powerful.

You do have a way of saying things just right.


Skyryder

[Oscar]

The notion that bought water is a necessity nowadays is the result of relentless clever advertising, just as the notion that differential GST rates is too complex is the result of insidious publicity by those who place business "efficiency" above the interests of the common people. If more people started to question the messages that they receive, perhaps they would start to live their own lives, not those pre-programmed for them by the wealthy and powerful.

This is an interesting concept - the notion that a taste for bottled water is a conspiracy against the common man and that we're being brain washed into drinking it. Maybe they just like the taste.

Perhaps you should have your own water tested...

[The Stranger:Me]

I presume you are heading off to the wilderness, and bottled water is no doubt a necessity. But you don't have to buy it - why not fill up some containers from your tap before you go??

The notion that bought water is a necessity nowadays is the result of relentless clever advertising, just as the notion that differential GST rates is too complex is the result of insidious publicity by those who place business "efficiency" above the interests of the common people. If more people started to question the messages that they receive, perhaps they would start to live their own lives, not those pre-programmed for them by the wealthy and powerful.

So how do you get your water? Not from the town supply I hope. The notion that town supply water is a necessity nowadays is the result of laziness. Why is one method of collection and distribution more deserving of GST than another? Water is water, pure and simple.

What are you proposing the good or service is that you are placing GST on, if it be water or distribution it should be consistent.

Your rant over my conditioning is total codswallop. I'm going shopping anyway, I can do this at ten oclock at night instead of taking time off work for a trip to a camping store or wherever to locate a suitable water container (which is going to cost me anyway). You need to stop getting all emotional about bottled water. It's only water in a bottle for fuck sake, it wont hurt you. Look, I'll even see if I can get someone down that way to hold your hand whilst you try some if you like.

[Pascal]

So how do you get your water? Not from the town supply I hope. The notion that town supply water is a necessity nowadays is the result of laziness. Why is one method of collection and distribution more deserving of GST than another? Water is water, pure and simple.

What are you proposing the good or service is that you are placing GST on, if it be water or distribution it should be consistent.

Your rant over my conditioning is total codswallop. I'm going shopping anyway, I can do this at ten oclock at night instead of taking time off work for a trip to a camping store or wherever to locate a suitable water container (which is going to cost me anyway). You need to stop getting all emotional about bottled water. It's only water in a bottle for fuck sake, it wont hurt you. Look, I'll even see if I can get someone down that way to hold your hand whilst you try some if you like.

Exactly. Why should anybody get to decide what you pay for your water? If you want to pay almost the same for your water as you do for your petrol, that is your choice. It should attract the same taxation rate, no matter where it is sourced from or how much it costs.

But I still like the idea of having "essential" food items, staples effectively, being GST free. Water, bread, rice, fresh fruit and vegetables, milk, fresh meat, fish, fowl and so forth. Leave processed and deli foods off the list, but leave specialist foods like soy milk, etc. on. I'm pretty sure if somebody sat down and spent some time on it they could make a list of what would be essential items. I understand it is difficult to manage though and that the more rules you put around something the more complex and confusing it becomes and the more loopholes you create.

So, guess I'm saying - like the idea, but after seeing some comments don't think it is entirely feasible.

[p.dath]

But I still like the idea of having "essential" food items, staples effectively, being GST free. Water, bread, rice, fresh fruit and vegetables, milk, fresh meat, fish, fowl and so forth. Leave processed and deli foods off the list, but leave specialist foods like soy milk, etc. on. I'm pretty sure if somebody sat down and spent some time on it they could make a list of what would be essential items. I understand it is difficult to manage though and that the more rules you put around something the more complex and confusing it becomes and the more loopholes you create.

So, guess I'm saying - like the idea, but after seeing some comments don't think it is entirely feasible.

Paying everyone a universal benefit would be easier than discounting GST on specific product types ...

[Pascal]

Paying everyone a universal benefit would be easier than discounting GST on specific product types ...

I'm not a big fan of paying people simply for them existing though. It would be nice if you could say $500 of expenses are GST free and leave it up to the invidual to spend that on food or beer and babes, but that would be ludicrously complex.

Nah, at the end of the day flat rate seems to be the simplest, most manageable solution.

[Oscar]

Paying everyone a universal benefit would be easier than discounting GST on specific product types ...

Like $35 a month for each child?
Family Benefit.

[Winston001]

The notion that bought water is a necessity nowadays is the result of relentless clever advertising, just as the notion that differential GST rates is too complex is the result of insidious publicity by those who place business "efficiency" above the interests of the common people.

But I still like the idea of having "essential" food items, staples effectively, being GST free. Water, bread, rice, fresh fruit and vegetables, milk, fresh meat, fish, fowl and so forth. Leave processed and deli foods off the list, but leave specialist foods like soy milk, etc. on. I'm pretty sure if somebody sat down and spent some time on it they could make a list of what would be essential items.

I don't buy bottled water being content with the stuff from the tap, but my children and everyone else seem to be happy consumers. Fair enough, I get to use their bottles.

As for GST exceptions, it sounds lovely. However if the combined legal minds of the Europeans and the British cannot come up with a fool-proof definition for exceptions, there is little chance NZ can do so. The Americans have the same problems with their state sales tax.

As for dealing with exceptions, I have prepared and filed many GST returns. These have required various adjustments eg. a percentage of mileage costs, staff food (you have to exclude your own food!) etc and I can say that if there were exceptions on top of that which I also had to factor in - I'd go spare. It always sounds easy when someone else has to do the job......

[MikeL]

So how do you get your water? Not from the town supply I hope. The notion that town supply water is a necessity nowadays is the result of laziness. Why is one method of collection and distribution more deserving of GST than another? Water is water, pure and simple. Because it's not simply a method of collection and distribution. A reticulated water supply is a public good as well as a private one: it is in the interests of the whole community that we should have a safe, reasonably priced water supply. Essentially it is a necessity. Bottled water is a discretionary item. You may think it a necessity (as the advertisers want you to do) but your grounds for believing are not based on objective arguments.



Your rant over my conditioning is total codswallop. I'm going shopping anyway, I can do this at ten oclock at night instead of taking time off work for a trip to a camping store or wherever to locate a suitable water container (which is going to cost me anyway). You need to stop getting all emotional about bottled water. It's only water in a bottle for fuck sake, it wont hurt you. Look, I'll even see if I can get someone down that way to hold your hand whilst you try some if you like.

My description of bottled water as an "abomination" may conjure up pictures in your mind of someone jumping up and down, ranting and foaming at the mouth, but that's your over-active imagination. I think I'm being quite calm and rational. I am.

[MikeL]

This is an interesting concept - the notion that a taste for bottled water is a conspiracy against the common man
I think I would prefer to call it a triumph of marketing over common sense
and that we're being brain washed into drinking it. Maybe they just like the taste. Indeed. the techniques of persuasion used in the advertising industry have a lot in common with brainwashing.

Perhaps you should have your own water tested...
I don't need to. I'm fortunate to live in Onehunga, which has some of the best tap water in Auckland. But no matter where you live, the water here is of excellent quality compared to many overseas countries. I lived in Europe for several years, and in the south of France nobody drinks the tap water, because it is very hard and although safe, has an unpleasant taste. But if you take Auckland tap water, leave it to stand until the chlorine dissipates, then put it into a bottle, you will be unlikely to be able to distinguish it from bought bottled water. Carbonate it in a SodaStream and serve it in a Perrier bottle and you will fool almost everyone (except possibly the French...)

People who complain that they never have enough money and yet are willing to spend $2 on bottled water need to examine their priorities.